Senate
2 June 1960

23rd Parliament · 2nd Session



The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. A. D. Reid) took the chair at 10.30 a.m., and read prayers.

page 1281

QUESTION

SOCIAL SERVICES

Senator CANT:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I preface a question to the Minister representing the Minister for Social Services by stating that the Government intends to resume a certain area of land in the region of Perth airport for the extension of runways. This will mean that a number of people will be removed from their land. If aged persons among those concerned receive compensation in excess of the property limit fixed for persons obtaining social service benefits, will they be temporarily or permanently deprived of a right to receive social service benefits?

Senator HENTY:
Minister for Customs and Excise · TASMANIA · LP

– Details of social service administration in a particular case such as that raised by the honorable senator are best taken up directly with the Minister concerned, who will readily be able to answer the questions raised. I know nothing of the details of this matter. If the honorable senator places his question on the notice-paper I will obtain an answer for him.

page 1281

QUESTION

SALES TAX

Senator PEARSON:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I ask the Minister representing the Treasurer whether the Government will consider in the forthcoming Budget providing relief to private omnibus proprietors from the payment of sales tax on motor vehicles and spare parts. I point out that these operators are competing with transport operated by semi-government and government authorities, which do not bear the burden of sales tax on such vehicles.

Senator PALTRIDGE:
Minister for Civil Aviation · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · LP

– I think I have heard similar requests made on other occasions. This is a matter that obviously involves Budget policy. All I can say is that such matters are examined each year when the Budget is being framed.

page 1281

QUESTION

DEVELOPMENT OF NORTHERN AUSTRALIA

Senator DITTMER:
QUEENSLAND

– My question is addressed to the Minister for National Development. Has the Minister’s attention been directed to the address given by Mr.

George Fisher to the annual meeting of the Institute of Mining and Metallurgy held in Melbourne? As Mr. Fisher is one of the outstanding figures in Australian industry and as he suggests that the Federal Government should develop Australia’s vast northern outback by forming a northern Australian development commission, will the Minister give an assurance that the Government will seriously consider setting up such a commission in order to rectify in some small measure the favorable treatment accorded to the southern part of Australia as compared with the treatment of the northern part in the light of the necessary settlement of the north? In order to save the Minister’s time I suggest that he read my maiden speech in which I suggested the formation of a northern Australian development and settlement organization and in which I outlined the tasks facing such an organization and its possible personnel. Is the Minister aware that a representative body of graziers has suggested setting up a permanent body of this character?

Senator SPOONER:
Minister for National Development · NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

– I hope that Senator Dittmer will not be unduly surprised to know that I read his maiden speech in the Senate. I not only listened to it as he made it but I read it later and I thought that it was quite a thoughtful contribution to Senate debate. I have not seen the address given by Mr. Fisher but I have asked my department to obtain a copy of it. I know that the graziers organization has advocated a procedure such as that suggested by the honorable senator and I was present at a forum in Sydney at which Mr. Keast of the Rio Tinto company advocated the setting up of such a body. It is one of those proposals that are not nearly so easy to implement as appears on the surface. There have been in the past, I think, two or three similar organizations which have had advisory functions. The suggestion, I understand, at this time is that we should go further than advisory functions and have executive or administrative functions. As I said, such a policy is not as easy to implement as appears on the surface because there are three governments concerned. There is the Western Australian Government, the Northern Territory Administration and the Queensland Government, and Commonwealth and State financial arrangements, have to be taken into consideration. The pattern tightens all the while. There are discussions at the Australian Loan Council on the allocation of funds, and the distribution of available moneys, contrary to the views expressed by some people, leaves the Commonwealth in a pretty tight position. After the Commonwealth gives all that it can give at Loan Council meetings, what remains available to it is no more than it needs, and the Commonwealth has no more desire than any other government to take the odium of increasing taxes for various purposes.

For my part, I have been concentrating such influence as I have on trying to get specific proposals supported, whether they be governmental or commercial propositions. I myself have the view that the development of the north is more likely to proceed quickly if we can get good specific propositions operating, propositions like Wittenoom Gorge and Rum Jungle and now, of course, Weipa and Mr Isa. If we get specific undertakings developed, I think that is one of the best ways of bringing momentum to the Northern Territory.

Senator DITTMER:

– I wish to ask the Minister for National Development a supplementary question. Would it be true to say that a previous government, faced with not dissimilar difficulties concerning the Snowy Mountains hydro-electric scheme, had to co-ordinate the activities of various State governments with those of the Commonwealth, but with a sense of realization of its responsibilities that government faced those difficulties and overcame them?

Senator SPOONER:

– Yes, that is so, but I think that the honorable senator also has to admit that the Snowy Mountains scheme, as a developmental project, ranks higher than any other Australian proposition and it gives such good immediate benefits in the way of power and water. I think that the honorable senator would find it much harder to get State governments to embark upon a reasonable proposition in the north than was our experience in getting the State governments to be parties to the proposition in the south, and goodness knows that was difficult enough to negotiate. The spade work - the foundation work - was left to this Government, and that proved to be harder than the initial arrangements.

The matter to be determined is the extent to which a State government is prepared to divert its resources to the north when it can get such better immediate benefits from public investment in the southern parts of its area.

page 1282

QUESTION

EMPLOYMENT

Senator MARRIOTT:
TASMANIA

– I wish to direct a question to the Minister representing the Minister for Labour and National Service. In view of the fact that the Minister for Labour and National Service, Mr. McMahon, recently announced that during the “ employ the handicapped week “, conducted on an Australia-wide basis by the Australian Junior Chamber of Commerce, employment had been found through the Commonwealth Employment Service for 500 handicapped men and women, can the Minister advise me how many of these jobs were found within the Commonwealth Public Service or in any of the business undertakings of the Commonwealth?

Senator PALTRIDGE:
LP

– In the analysis which is made each month of Commonwealth employment statistics, the department does not include details of employers with whom placements are made. This general practice applies to placements of physically handicapped persons as well as others. I am not, therefore, in a position to give the honorable senator the detailed information he requires. He will recall, however, that, as Senator Spooner explained earlier in the week, following the report of the Boyer committee on recruitment to the Public Service the Government is now examining the whole question of the permanent employment in the Commonwealth Public Service of physically handicapped persons.

page 1282

QUESTION

THE PARLIAMENT

Senator McMANUS:
VICTORIA

– Can the Leader of the Government tell the Senate the date, even approximately, on which the Senate is likely to resume for the Budget session?

Senator SPOONER:
LP

– I cannot give an exact date. The Budget session follows a pattern, and I would say for sure that it will commence this year in August. I think it would be a safe bet that the commencing date will be about the middle of August.

page 1283

QUESTION

DESALINATION OF WATER

Senator BRANSON:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Is the Mininster tor National Development able to say what were the recent developments that were referred to in an article that appeared in the Sydney “Sun”, and which read in pan, Recent developments made by the United States of America Office o£ Saline Water indicated a possible break-through in the cost factor in certain circumstances “? Does the Minister know what these developments were and what is meant by “ in certain circumstances “?

Senator SPOONER:
LP

– I am sorry to say that Senator Branson has caught me napping. I did not see the newspaper report to which he refers, but it evidently contains a very interesting statement. I can only ask the honorable senator to place this question on the notice-paper. 1 shall study the information I receive with as great interest as Senator Branson no doubt will study it.

page 1283

QUESTION

CUSTOMS ACT

Senator POKE:
TASMANIA

– Will the Minister for Customs and Excise tell the Senate the number of offences known to have been committed in Tasmania against the Customs Act during the past three years? Is the Minister aware that poor quality watches, stamped with the names of reputable firms, are being smuggled into Tasmania from overseas and being disposed of at prices considerably in excess of their value? Will the Minister advise us of the scale of penalties imposed when offences are detected, and what supervision is exercised to detect such offences? Is the Minister aware that persons travelling on overseas vessels calling at Devonport to pick up cargoes of meat for Sydney and Brisbane are among the worst offenders in this regard?

Senator HENTY:
LP

– Representations were made to me by the retail jewellers’ association at Devonport, and we have this matter under constant review. I shall obtain the details the honorable senator asks for, if he will put his question on the notice-paper. As to the steps we are taking or intend to take to exercise supervision, let me say that I do not believe in telegraphing my punches, and the honorable senator will discover in due course what steps are taken to deal with this problem.

page 1283

QUESTION

POLIOMYELITIS

Senator MAHER:
QUEENSLAND

– I direct a question to the Minister representing the Minister for Health. Has the Minister seen a press statement which reported that Dr. Baker, an Indian physician, said that he was appalled at the methods of mass vaccination against poliomyelitis practised in Victoria, where in many cases the same syringe and needle was used on all those offering for vaccination? Has he also seen a statement by Dr Gill, published in the current issue of the “ Medical Journal of Australia “, strongly criticising the use of multiple syringes which, it is suggested, could cause a transfer of hepatitis virus from one person to another by crossinfection? Is any action contemplated to meet these serious objections to the methods of vaccination said to be practised in this country?

Senator HENTY:
LP

– I did not see the press statement. The matter which the honorable senator raises is of some importance, and if he will put the question on the notice-paper 1 shall get the information from the Minister for Health for him.

page 1283

QUESTION

SALES TAX

Senator COLE:
TASMANIA

– 1 address my question to the Minister representing the Treasurer. Is the Treasurer aware of the grave effect of the continuance of the imposition of excessive sales tax on soft-serve dairy products? Will he obtain a review of the latest arbitrary directions by the Commissioner of Taxation that the acceptable sales value of soft-serve products for the purpose of section 18 ( 1 .) (b) (ii) of the Sales Tax (Exemptions and Classifications) Act should be calculated on the basis of not less than 24s. for each gallon of liquid mix used? In reaching a decision for such a review, will the Treasurer give due weight to available evidence that alternative sales values of 8s. 6d. a gallon by G. J. Coles Proprietary Limited in Perth and 10s. a gallon by Dairy Farmers Co-operative Milk Company Limited, Sydney, clearly show that the sales value of 24s. ruled as acceptable to the Commissioner of Taxation is not based on commercial facts and places an unjust burden of an increase of 37 per cent, sales tax on retailers in an industry which does much to assist our primary producers?

Could this matter receive such early consideration as would enable the tax relief requested to be effected in the next Budget?

Senator PALTRIDGE:
LP

– I do not think the honorable senator expects me to have in my mind the rates of sales tax which may apply to what I understand is a product sold under a certain trade name.

Senator Cole:

– lt is sold as Dairy Queen.

Senator PALTRIDGE:

– I just do not know what rate of sales tax is applicable. I think the best thing I can do is tell the honorable senator I shall have a look at the question. If there is any information I can give him during the recess, I shall write to him on the general question of sales tax. I can only say that the general question of sales tax is a matter which is examined yearly at Budget time.

page 1284

QUESTION

HOUSING FINANCE

Senator BUTTFIELD:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– My question, which is directed to the Minister for National Development, concerns cooperative building societies. I ask him whether it is a fact that South Australian building societies have never received one penny in loans from either the Commonwealth Trading Bank or the Commonwealth Savings Bank. Is it a fact that whenever the South Australian societies make applications to the Commonwealth Bank they are told that no money is available for the purpose? Is it also a fact that in the 22 years since the Association of Co-operative Building Societies was formed in New South Wales that State alone has been lent £27,618,000 by the Commonwealth Trading Bank and £42,415,000 by the Commonwealth Savings Bank? Is it also a fact that Victoria has been lent £24,130,000 by the two banks? Will the Minister take steps to see that the South Australian co-operative building societies can borrow money from the Commonwealth Bank in the future?

Senator SPOONER:
LP

– I have had the opportunity to make some inquiries, and I have obtained some information on this matter. The Commonwealth Trading Bank and the Commonwealth Savings Bank have not made any loans to the permanent building societies in South Australia. A loan was offered to one society in 1956 but it was declined by that society. We have no knowledge or information of other approaches having been made to either of the two banks by a South Australian building society since 1956. The figures that the honorable senator has given are correct. We must look at the South Australian position bearing in mind that the Commonwealth Bank, and I think other banks, do not as a rule make a practice of lending to permanent building societies. The figures given in relation to New South Wales and Victoria are correct, but they relate to loans to terminating co-operative building societies and not to permanent building societies. Permanent building societies undertake more responsibility for obtaining their finance by savings schemes and from their members. From a national point of view, in my opinion, a permanent building society is a more satisfactory form of building society than a terminating society. I suggest to Senator Buttfield that perhaps the permanent societies in South Australia might make representations to the Commonwealth Bank and to the other banks, upon which I think the applications would be considered.

page 1284

QUESTION

IRON ORE

Senator SCOTT:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Is the Minister for National Development aware that the Canadian Government exports about 20,000,000 tons of iron ore a year, which has a value of approximately £100,000,000 Australian? In view of the establishment by the Bureau of Mineral Resources of the existence of greater quantities of iron ore in Australia than were thought to exist, when the Minister goes to Japan will he discuss the sale of iron ore to that country? Before he leaves for Japan, will he be in contact with Sir Arthur Fadden, who is reported to be the sole buying agent for Japanese interests, and will he be in touch with the Premier and Government of Western Australia on the subject of iron ore? Can he give me any information about whether the Western Australian Government is prepared to lift the blanket pegging of iron ore deposits in Western Australia?

Senator SPOONER:
LP

– I am aware that Canada has a big export trade in iron ore. Canada, of course, has enormous iron ore deposits and has recently opened up, or is now in the course of opening up, a vast deposit in Labrador. I do not want there to be any misunderstanding about the iron ore position. Up to this stage all that has happened is that an up-to-date report has been received from the Bureau of Mineral Resources, showing that we have greater quantities than we thought we had. The matter has not yet been the subject of any Government decision. There has been no alteration of the present situation wherein there is an embargo on the export of iron ore. Manifestly, I shall not be discussing the matter in Japan, Government policy being what it is and there having been no alteration to it. Because of that situation, I shall not be discussing the matter with Sir Arthur Fadden or with the Western Australian Government before I leave. I do not know what Sir Arthur Fadden’s position is in relation to the matter. What it is is his concern. I do not think it relates to the Government’s position. I should not normally be thinking of discussing iron ore arrangements with any agent, because the Commonwealth does not get into the commercial transactions. If the Government were to alter its policy, all that it would do would be to give licences. Any commercial transactions would be between the mining companies and the purchasers of the ore.

page 1285

QUESTION

MENTAL DISEASE

Senator DITTMER:

– My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Health. Realizing that, with the exception of the few million pounds given to the States in order to correct the hospital building lag, nothing has been done in the field of mental disease, will the Government give consideration to alleviating its callous treatment of sufferers from mental diseases by contributing to the States at least 8s a day for mental patients? This action would at least place mental diseases in correct perspective in the classification of diseases.

Senator HENTY:
LP

– I do not think the statement contained in the first part of the honorable senator’s question is quite correct. Senator Dittmer used the expression, “ with the exception of the few million pounds given to the States in order to correct the hospital building lag.” I think that this Government has done a very good job in providing the States with money for building. The results achieved in the housing field in most of the States demonstrate that quite clearly. The honorable senator suggests a payment of 8s. a day for hospital patients suffering from mental diseases. I shall refer that part of the question to the Minister for Health. It has always been my impression that patients suffering from mental diseases are the concern of the States - that they come under the jurisdiction of the State. I will refer the question to the Minister and ask him to give the honorable senator an answer.

page 1285

QUESTION

POSTAL DEPARTMENT

Senator LAUGHT:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I address a question to the Minister representing the PostmasterGeneral. By way of preface, I point out that on 31st March last the Minister representing the PostmasterGeneral indicated to me in the Senate that the committee of inquiry into certain aspects of the accounts of the Post Office was appointed in October of last year and that it was expected that the report of the committee would be submitted in April, 1960 - that is, during the month immediately following the Minister’s answer to my inquiry. It is now June, 1960, but this report does not appear to have reached the Senate. Can the Minister say whether the report has yet been prepared? If so, to whom has it been sent? If it has not been prepared, what is the reason? The report seems to me to be basic to the Budget-thinking that must certainly be going on in Cabinet at the present time in relation to Post Office charges and finances.

Senator SPOONER:
LP

– I well remember, of course, the circumstances concerning the constitution of the committee. 1 am rather surprised to hear that it was expected that the committee’s report would be ready so soon, but I do not doubt Senator Laught’s statement. I ask that he put the question on notice, because I am so obviously illinformed on the matter.

page 1285

QUESTION

HOUSING

Senator McMANUS:

– I ask a question of the Leader of the Government in his capacity as Minister in charge of housing. We were advised that the Minister recently attended a conference of State housing authorities and it was reported that at that meeting there were differences of opinion or. the relative merits of co-operative housing and State housing projects. Can we be assured that the Minister will maintain his very commendable attitude that cooperative housing is a most desirable method of dealing with the housing problem? Can he assure us that he will continue to give every encouragement to co-operative housing societies?

Senator SPOONER:
LP

– The discussion at Adelaide turned upon the point of how many more houses could be built by building societies with a given sum of Government finance than by State housing commissions. I maintained - backed by the statistical records of my department - that, at the least, 20 per cent, more houses could be built by building societies than by housing commissions.

Senator Maher:

– For a given sum of money?

Senator SPOONER:

– Yes, 20 per cent, more houses for a given sum of money. The average member of a building society is a thrifty type of person. He saves, and he pays a larger deposit than does the purchaser of a home under a governmental scheme. In addition, he undertakes the task of repaying the money that he borrows over a shorter period of time.

I remind the Senate that a couple of years ago I tabled in this chamber some figures in relation to the occupations of members of building societies. That information indicated that the members of the societies were just the same as the rest of us - men of no great income and in no different economic position from people who take up housing commission homes. I believe that the building societies are doing a magnificent job in Australia. As to the terms of the new housing agreement, that is a matter of government policy and is not for me to announce. However, I think that my views about building societies are so well known that it would not be improper for me to say that I shall be supporting them.

page 1286

QUESTION

TAXATION

Senator VINCENT:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– My question, which is addressed to the Minister representing the Treasurer, relates to the position of divorced or separated husbands who are paying, under an order of court, an amount of either maintenance or alimony to their wives. T understand that these unfortunate men are not entitled to claim their wives as dependants under our income tax laws.

If that is true, will the Minister use his best endeavours to plead with the Treasurer that the fiction that a husband who has an enforcement order for maintenance against him, has no longer a dependent wife, should be abandoned in the next Budget?

Senator PALTRIDGE:
LP

– I shall bring the comments of the honorable senator to the Treasurer’s attention.

page 1286

QUESTION

IRRIGATION AREA, LOXTON, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Senator ANDERSON:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– I preface my question, which is addressed to the Minister representing the Minister for Primary Industry, by pointing out that on 21st May last the Minister for Primary Industry issued a press statement in which he indicated that he had approved the expenditure of £1,300,000 on a comprehensive drainage scheme for the Loxton irrigation area in South Australia. The Minister also stated that he had had interviews with the South Australian Minister for Lands, Sir Cecil Hincks, and the Commonwealth Director of War Service Land Settlement. He pointed out that Loxton is a well-known vine and fruit-growing district on the river Murray, the farms having been developed as a war service land settlement scheme since 1946. Is it the intention of the Minister for Primary Industry that this work should be referred to the Public Works Committee, in view of the fact that, prior to 21st May last, this Parliament passed legislation which makes it mandatory for proposed public works estimated to cost more than £250,000 to be considered, in the normal course of events, by the Public Works Committee?

Senator GORTON:
Minister for the Navy · VICTORIA · LP

– 1 shall not ask the honorable senator to place the question on the notice-paper, because if I did so, the question would be removed from the noticepaper when the Senate rose. I shall ask the Minister for Primary Industry to supply an answer in writing to the honorable senator’s question.

Senator LAUGHT:

– I direct a supplementary question to the Minister. Although I regard as commendable the suggestion of my friend and colleague, Senator Anderson, who is a member of the Public Works Committee, I put to the

Minister that there is a great urgency in connexion with the plan foreshadowed by the Minister for Primary Industry. I suggest that perhaps the urgency of the proposed work could well be the determining factor in deciding whether it should be delayed by referring it to the Public Works Committee.

Senator GORTON:

– Whether that is a determining factor, or whether there are, in fact, quite a number of factors which affect the decision whether the work should or should not be referred to the Public Works Committee, I think that the Minister for Primary Industry should reply to the question. No doubt he will consider the comments of Senator Laught when he is preparing his reply.

page 1287

QUESTION

HOUSING

Senator COLE:

– Can the Minister for National Development say whether the money that is loaned to the States for cooperative housing is lent for a term of 53 years? As co-operative building societies repay their loans, on an average, in 25 years, what happens to the excess repayments by the societies to the States?

Senator SPOONER:
LP

– I do not have the figures in my mind although perhaps I should be aware of them. The funds that are advanced to the States are made available on terms of repayment over 53 years, as Senator Cole has said. The building societies repay the States over considerably shorter periods of time and the States are then in a position again to lend those surplus moneys, using the original advance from the Commonwealth in the form of a revolving fund. The arrangements have been in force for about three years. As yet it is too early for the plan to become fully effective, but I think that according to the last figures I saw, an amount in excess of £1,000,000 has been lent to building societies from the original fund for the second time.

Senator Cole:

– That is only in Victoria. The money is not re-invested in Tasmania.

Senator SPOONER:

– If that is so, a wrong practice is being followed. I shall have inquiries made on that point. The moneys that are advanced to Tasmania are divided into two parts. The understanding is that the Agricultural Bank will deal with that portion of the moneys allotted to it in the same way as a building society does. So I would hope that it would re-invest its surplus.

page 1287

QUESTION

WOOL

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I ask a question of the Minister representing the Minister for Primary Industry. In view of the fact that a wool futures market has been operating in London for many years but has made no visible contribution towards guarding against wide fluctuations in wool prices - nor does it claim to do so - will the Minister indicate in what way the Sydney wool futures market will achieve this objective? As the wool trade will use the futures market to insure against proportion of price risk, on which the premiums are high, does the Minister consider that the trade will treat those premiums as an operating cost which will be finally reckoned against the price paid for growers’ wool?

Senator GORTON:
LP

– The objective of the wool futures market is not so much to prevent the price of wool fluctuating widely as to prevent the individual buyer from having to pay a wide range of prices. As Senator Drake-Brockman indicated the buyers must in a sense insure against a rise or fall in prices. The honorable senator asks whether that practice will approximate to the payment of an insurance premium and accordingly be passed on to the consumer in the price of wool. I think that the answer is that the ordinary wool auction market is operating at the same time as the futures market. Although an individual may be able to insure against price variations, the level of prices would be set by the ordinary auction market rather than by the futures market.

page 1287

QUESTION

TAXATION

Senator WARDLAW:
TASMANIA

– My question is directed to the Minister representing the Treasurer and relates to the income tax legislation. At present the legislation provides that a concessional deduction of up to £30 will be allowed for funeral expenses incurred in respect of a dependant. In that case the bread-winner of the family gains the benefit of the deduction. But no allowance is made in respect of funeral expenses incurred as a result of the death of the bread-winner. His estate cannot claim funeral expenses as a deduction, nor can his widow make any claim for the cost of her husband’s funeral, even though it may be necessary for her to go to work in order to earn sufficient money to pay for the funeral. I am not at this stage raising the point that the allowance is totally inadequate in view of present-day funeral costs. Will the Minister bring this anomaly to the attention of the Treasurer and ask that the matter be fully investigated and some alleviation of the position given in the next Budget?

Senator PALTRIDGE:
LP

– I shall be pleased to have a look at this matter and I shall ask the Treasurer to inquire into it. On a quick assessment I am not sure that an anomaly in fact exists. I can see at once a difference between burial expenses incurred as a result of the death of a dependant and those incurred as a result of the death of the taxpayer himself. However, I will inquire into this matter.

page 1288

QUESTION

SOCIAL SERVICES

Senator TANGNEY:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– 1 ask a question of the Minister representing the Minister for Social Services. My question also concerns the administration of health and repatriation. Will the Minister consider issuing a booklet setting out in simple language the terms and conditions under which pensions are granted and other details, such as the value of property and other income that various classifications of pensioners, including war pensioners, may have without affecting their rights to pensions? In particular I should like information about annuities to be incorporated in the booklet. I have found that great confusion exists not only amongst pensioners, but also amongst people dealing with pensioners, about property rights and other matters. As a result some pensioners are not receiving the full social service benefits to which they are entitled.

Senator HENTY:
LP

– I recently received a very interesting pamphlet from the Department of Social Services which, I think, covers all the information that is sought by the honorable senator.

Senator Tangney:

– It does not cover annunities

Senator HENTY:

– If the honorable senator thinks that other valuable information should be included in the pamphlet, I shall convey her suggestion to the Ministers concerned. In my experience, matters such as this are best dealt with by direct discussions between the person concerned and the department, because each case differs from any other.

Senator Tangney:

– Not if a general principle is involved.

Senator HENTY:

– AH sorts of complications arise in regard to the amount of money and the value of property that a would-be pensioner may own. Those matters are more easily clarified by discussions with departmental officers than by consulting a book. I shall submit the honorable senator’s question to the Department of Social Services, and other departments that may be concerned, and ask that it be examined.

page 1288

QUESTION

CANBERRA WATER RATES

Senator HENTY:
LP

– The honorable senator raises a very interesting matter. Canberra is in a different position from that of areas that are under the control of municipal councils, where the ratepayers bear such burdens as water rates and where such charges are mct on the basis of the arrangement outlined in the statement to which the honorable senator has referred. However, 1 shall refer the matter, as far as Canberra is concerned, to the Minister for the Interior and ask him to supply an answer.

page 1289

QUESTION

CIVIL AVIATION

Senator DITTMER:

– I apologize, Mr. Deputy President, for rising to ask my third question this morning, but after all this is the last opportunity 1 shall have to ask a question before the end-of-term recess. This question is directed to the Minister for Civil Aviation. Does he know what is the amount of the total current indebtedness of Ansett-A.N.A.? If he does know, will he inform the Senate of the amount? If he does not know, will he find out, as most people would consider that the Government should know the amount because the indebtedness guaranteed by the Government alone as at first May stood at £5,113,632? When the Minister does find out what is the company’s total indebtedness, will he advise the Senate of the amount? What form of legal protection has the Government to cover its guarantee?

Senator PALTRIDGE:
LP

– As the honorable senator has pointed out, this is the last day of the sessional period, so I shall endeavour to answer the question with restraint. The Ansett transport organization is a public company. It publishes its accounts and makes them available to shareholders, as does every other public company, once a year. Indeed, I think I am correct in saying that this company makes a practice of reporting in a modified form each half year as well as yearly. Those reports, no doubt because of the number of shareholders that are interested in the company - nearly 20,000 - always receive wide publicity, and the financial structure of the company comes under quite close public scrutiny.

Personally, I am not aware of the total liability or indebtedness of the company at this point of time. My interest in it, of course, as Minister for Civil Aviation, is in the position of the company, vis-a-vis the government-guaranteed loans; and I think it can be said that from time to time during this session - this subject has arisen more often than most others - I have answered questions on these guarantees.

The honorable senator asked, somewhat to my surprise, what protection the Government has in respect of a contingent commitment that it might have to stand up to as the guarantor. I do not think that the Senate would thank me if I wearied it again with all the details, but I say to the honorable senator that if he wants to familiarize himself with the legal protection that the Government enjoys - as he terms it - he should study the Civil Aviation Agreement Act 1952, the Civil Aviation Agreement Act 1957, and the Airlines Equipment Act 1958, and he will see set out therein, chapter and verse, just what is the protection of the Government.

page 1289

QUESTION

FRUIT FLY CONTROL

Senator BUTTFIELD:

– My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister in charge of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization. Last month the Minister for National Development, when answering a question that was asked by Senator Pearson concerning blow fly control, said that he had seen a report of the proceedings at the technological conference in Sydney to the effect that some work was being done in this field but he thought that the experiment so far should only raise hopes rather than expectations. I understand that the C.S.I.R.O. is conducting experiments both in blow fly control and fruit fly control. As this matter is of interest to so many people, will the Minister consider making immediately a statement on the degree of success achieved so far in the experiments? Since at that conference a member of the University of Sydney quoted a very low figure as the cost of eradicating the fruit fly in Australia, will the Minister say in his statement whether he thinks the fruit fly menace could be overcome at that low figure and whether the organization is ready to move in next summer and endeavour to overcome the fruit fly menace?

Senator HENTY:
LP

– This question was raised in the Senate last week by Senator Pearson, and a pretty comprehensive answer was given by my colleague, the Minister for National Development. He said that as this matter was only at the experimental stage, a definite answer one way or the other could not be given. I am sure that the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, as well as every member of this chamber, is fully aware of the fruit fly menace. I am quite confident that that organization and everybody else who is concerned are anxious for this menace to be eradicated at the earliest possible moment. The experiment is not yet sufficiently advanced to enable me to give any information of value to the honorable senator at the present time. I suggest to her that she wait a little while. The C.S.I.R.O. likes to be satisfied about the results of experiments before it makes a statement on them. When it is satisfied, and when it is ready it will make an announcement. I will then be happy to make a statement to the Senate; and I shall do so as early as is possible.

page 1290

QUESTION

DEFENCE

Senator MARRIOTT:

– My question, which is addressed to the Minister representing the Minister for the Army, relates to the senior Army officers who are now being retired before the normal date for their retirement, because they are redundant under the new governmental policy for the Army. Can the Minister inform me whether those officers will be eligible on retirement from the Australian Regular Army to reenlist with the Citizen Military Forces, and thereby continue their service to Australia? If they will not be so eligible, will the Minister inform me of the reasons?

Senator HENTY:
LP

– I am not in a position to answer the honorable senator’s question, but I shall be pleased to get an answer for him in writing from my colleague, the Minister for the Army, at the earliest possible moment.

page 1290

QUESTION

BUILDING SOCIETIES

Senator WRIGHT:
TASMANIA

asked the Minister for National Development, upon notice -

  1. Has consideration been given to recent British proposals for the improvement and reformation of building society law, with a view to incorporating similar improvements in the laws of this country?
  2. In view of the fact that building societies, which now have a special interest from the point of view of the housing legislation of the Commonwealth, actually owe their creation to State law, will the Minister consider co-ordinating this matter with the work of the committees now considering company law in this country?
Senator SPOONER:
LP

– I now answer the honorable senator in the following terms: -

  1. The British proposals, which resulted in a bill recently before the British Parliament, was aimed at preventing capital subscribed for building society purposes being used for speculation in property and for developments other than the construction of dwellings. I do not believe that the kind of problem the British bill is designed to meet is also evident in Australia. The great majority of societies in this country are of the co-operative terminating type which, by their very nature, invest their moneys solely in dwelling construction and obtain their capita] from governments and finance institutions. I am not aware of any cases among the Australian permanent building societies of funds being used for other purposes.
  2. I understand that the committee at present engaged in working out a uniform approach to company law in Australia is nearing the end of its task and I am advised that it would unduly complicate and delay the work of this committee if it were to embark at this stage on a consideration of the law relating to building societies. There may well be a case for the revision of Australian building society law but I feel that this revision is likely to take the form of the co-ordination of the various State enactments rather than the kind of legislation now before the Parliament in Britain. However, I should expect any initiative for the coordination of State law to come from the States themselves.

page 1290

QUESTION

BEEF

Senator WEDGWOOD:
VICTORIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade, upon notice -

  1. Has the Minister seen the statement by Dr. J. O. Dunbar, leader of a nine-member American study group which visited Australia in February last, that whilst Australia had sold 57,300 tons of beef to the United States of America in 1959, the beef export trade to the United States of America would drop to a low level during the next four to six years?
  2. In view of the importance to the Australian cattle industry of maintaining a high volume of overseas exports, can the Minister inform the Senate what action is being taken to obtain markets for beef in countries of the European Economic Community?
Senator SPOONER:
LP

– The Minister for Trade has supplied the following answers: -

  1. I have seen the statement by Dr. J. O. Dunbar mentioned by the honorable senator. In the past two years large quantities of beef have been exported from Australia to the United States because of an increase in the United States demand for boneless beef which Australia was able to supply. The increased demand by the

United States for imported beef was partly the result of the 1956 drought in the United States, which reduced the number of range cattle and thus caused a shortage of manufacturing quality beef for use in the hamburger and similar trades. The drought did not affect supplies of prime quality feed-lot cattle. Over the last two years, United States cattle numbers have increased to the record figure of 101,000,000 as at January, 1960. However, the official United States view is that in the absence of drought or other conditions that would bring on heavy marketings, only a modest increase in cattle slaughter is likely during 1960. Much of the gain will be in prime-quality cattle. At the same time, the United States population has increased substantially and this, together with the decline in the percentage of utility type cattle in the United Slates gives grounds for optimism that Australian beef has secured a permanent place in the United States manufacturing market. This demand will, however, fluctuate from time to time, as it will depend to a large extent on the level of cow slaughterings in the United States.

  1. Australia has a useful export trade in beef with some of the countries of the European Economic Community. Exports over the past three years have averaged 7,500 tons per annum. The Government is taking all possible action to ensure that reasonable access is available for Australian primary products in these countries. Where necessary, negotiations are also being conducted on a bilateral basis to ensure opportunities for Australian products. A quota was recently obtained in West Germany for 6,500 tons of Australian frozen beef. Arrangements have subsequently been made for two German veterinarians to visit Australia in the near future to examine various aspects of the beef industry in this country.

page 1291

QUESTION

TELEPHONE AND TELEGRAPH SERVICES

Senator PEARSON:

asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

  1. What anticipated savings in time will result from the introduction of “ Tress “?
  2. Is it expected that the introduction 01 “ Elsa “ will achieve savings in time in respect of - (a) calls within a 25 miles radius of a metropolitan area; (b) calls within a 25 miles radius in country districts; and (c) interstate trunk line calls?
Senator SPOONER:
LP

– The PostmasterGeneral has furnished the following reply: -

  1. The elimination under Tress of the manual repetition and handling of telegrams at main switching stations has enabled the average transmission time for telegrams to be reduced by about 80 per cent. - from an average of 40 minutes to eight minutes for interstate telegrams, and from twenty minutes to four minutes for a telegram within the one State. 2. (a) and (b) Where both the exchanges concerned are now within local call distance and are: automatic, most calls will be dialled direct by thecalling subscriber and there will be a saving in time on all calls formerly made on a trunk basis. Where one or both of the exchanges is a manual exchange the intervention of a telephonist will, still be necessary, but even on calls made between such exchanges there is a partial saving of operators’ time since the telephonist does not now record details of or time the duration of the call, which was formerly made on a trunk basis. Where the calls are trunk calls there has been no alteration in the method of connexion and nev saving of time has resulted. As the automatic metering of subscriber dialled trunk calls is. developed progressively, time of connexion will be reduced on such calls and savings in time and money will accrue to the caller, (c) With the exception of calls between exchanges which are within local call distance of each other across a State border, introduction of Elsa has not resulted in any saving in time on interstate trunk calls but such savings will be possible as subscriber trunk dialling is developed.

page 1291

QUESTION

TELEVISION

Senator MARRIOTT:

asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

  1. Is the Minister aware that television sets in Tasmania are, on occasions, able to receive the programmes of Melbourne television stations?
  2. Is it a fact that in the near future, when Tasmanian television stations commence operating, one Melbourne station will not be able to be received because it operates on the same frequency as will be used by one of the Tasmanian television stations?
  3. Is it probable that the reception of each station’s programmes may be interfered with?
Senator SPOONER:
LP

– The PostmasterGeneral has furnished the following reply: -

  1. The Minister is aware that it is possible at times to receive the transmissions of the Melbourne stations in the northern parts of Tasmania. However, as would be expected, the reception is not at all reliable, as it was not intended when the Melbourne stations were established that they should provide a service to northern Tasmania. 2 and 3. It is true that when national station ABT Hobart commences transmissions it will operate on the same channel as all other national stations in the capital cities, including ABV Melbourne, with consequent interference to the reception of both stations in the northern parts of Tasmania as well as some other areas. The type of interference referred to by the honorable senator which occurs in fringe areas of reception is an unavoidable feature of the establishment of additional television stations because the number of channels available for television purposes in the very high frequency band is limited making it necessary for several stations to operate on the one channel. However, most Tasmanian viewers will receive a better grade of service as a result of the establishment of ABT, and reception in the northern part of the State will be improved when services are established in that area, which is proposed in the latest approved stage of development.

page 1292

QUESTION

SUBSIDY ON DAIRY PRODUCTS

Senator BENN:
QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade, upon notice -

  1. Is it proposed to allow unlimited quantities of dairy products from New Zealand and Denmark to enter Australia under the tariff charges now operating?
  2. If lower local sales of locally manufactured dairy products result from increased imports will the dairy products subsidy of £13,500,000 be increased to off-set any losses caused by increased imports?
Senator SPOONER:
LP

– The Minister for Trade has now furnished the following reply: -

  1. In reply to the honorable senator’s question, I wish to make it clear that the import position in regard to dairy products is being closely watched. Cheese is the only dairy product imported in any quantity. Imports of other dairy products are negligible apart from infants’ and invalids’ foods. We have no evidence of any significant increases in these imports since import licensing controls on dairy products were lifted at the end of February. Arrangements have been made to provide the Australian Dairy Farmers’ Federation with monthly import statistics, so that the industry is being kept fully informed of the position.
  2. In regard to subsidy, the Government has repeatedly stated that it reserves the right to determine the level of subsidy after taking into consideration all relevant factors affecting the dairy industry and the nation’s economy as a whole. In fact, since the Liberal-Country Party Administration took office in December, 1949, the dairy industry has received most sympathetic treatment. Subsidy totalling almost £152,000,000 has been paid since that date. This includes £13,500,000 for each of the last four years. Arrangements for the 1960-61 season will be considered by the Government in the very near future. In determining its long-term policy for the dairy industry, the Government will have the benefit of the findings and recommendations of the Dairy Industry Committee of Inquiry which is now in the process of finalizing its reports.

page 1292

QUESTION

TELEVISION PROGRAMMES

Senator KENNELLY:
VICTORIA

asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

  1. What programmes on ABV2 in Victoria in the last six months have been repeats of earlier programmes?
  2. What is the reason for the large number of repeat programmes shown on Australian Broadcasting Commission television?
  3. Will the Postmaster-General express to the Australian Broadcasting Commission his concern that this practice should be so prevalent in an organization which should be leading the way in television?
Senator SPOONER:
LP

– The PostmasterGeneral has furnished the following reply -

  1. Certain live programmes of topical interest, e.g., sporting telecasts and such material as news magazine items, personality interviews, &c, are repeated on ABV2, as considered necessary, as a programme service. As far as filmed programmes are concerned, during the last six months some 40 popular film series were repeated either in part or in toto, and an average of one screen play and one shorter type film of general interest was repeated each week. 2 and 3. The above represents approximately 18 per cent. of the total number of programmes shown on ABC television in Victoria during this period. In relation to total programme units, this is not a large number and in fact the repeating of certain popular series, feature films, &c., at different times from the original transmissions is in accordance with television practice and procedure on all Australian stations and many stations overseas. There is the further point that many film series are available with the right of repeat, and this often enables the programme to be obtained at a greatly reduced rate per showing. It is due partly to popular request and partly to the desire of the Australian Broadcasting Commission to enable viewers who could not see these programmes at their original times of transmission -e.g., shift workers, &c. - to have an equal opportunity with their more fortunately placed fellow viewers of enjoying such films.

page 1292

QUESTION

OPALS

Senator HANNAFORD:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister for National Development, upon notice -

  1. What is the value of opals produced in Australia, and what proportion of the production is exported?
  2. What countries are the principal buyers of Australian opals?
Senator SPOONER:
LP

– I now answer the honorable senator in the following terms: -

  1. The recorded value of opals produced in Australia was £184,949 in 1957 and £216,266 in 1958. Data for 1959 is not yet available. Exports of opals in 1957 were valued at £288,951; 1958, £351,342, and 1959, £674,948. The value of exports bears practically no relationship to that of recorded production for the following reasons: - (i) production data is not complete; (ii) recorded production data refers to rough opal, and (iii) exports include all opal irrespective of the condition of the stone. It is not possible to give a precise figure of the proportion of annual production exported but it is estimated that the figure would be at least 85 per cent.
  2. The principal buyers of Australian opals in the years 1957, 1958 and 1959 are shown in the following table: -

page 1293

QUESTION

POSTAGE STAMPS

Senator SPOONER:
LP

– On 17th May, Senator Pearson asked me the following question: -

Will you inform the Senate whether the PostmasterGeneral’s Department intends to issue a postage stamp to commemorate the centenary of John McDouall Stuart’s epic crossing of Australia from south lo north? If not, will the Postmaster-General give consideration to honoring him in this way? Secondly, will the department give consideration to the issue of a series of Australian postage stamps, at regular intervals, with a view to increasing postal revenue by the sale of these stamps to philatelists at home, and more particularly overseas? T would point out that this is a lucrative source of revenue that is exploited to some degree by overseas nations.

The Postmaster-General has now furnished me with the following information in reply - 1. (a) The issue of a special postage stamp in 1962 to commemorate the centenary of the crossing of Australia from south to north by John McDouall Stuart is not contemplated, (b) As the postage stamps to be issued later in the present year to commemorate the centenary of Northern Territory exploration will be significant of explorations by John McDouall Stuart in Central Australia in 1860, the explorer is in fact being honoured.

  1. Up to twelve new stamps are usually issued each year; nine were issued in 1958-59 and sixteen during 1959-60, four of the latter being for the Australian Antarctic Territory. Under the present conditions about twelve new stamps annually cater adequately for philatelic requirements and for the considerations mentioned by the honorable senator.

page 1293

QUESTION

REPATRIATION BENEFITS

Senator SPOONER:
LP

– On 17th May, Senator Cameron asked me the following question: -

Have you been informed by the Repatriation Department that repatriation benefits include the issue free of radio and television licences to exservicemen in receipt of a special rate pension - the totally and permanently incapacitated rate - and that an ex-serviceman in receipt of a service pension can obtain a radio licence at a concessional rate of 10s. per year - the usual rate being £2 15s. - and a television licence for 25s. - the usual rate being £5. If so, have the responsible officers of the department been notified accordingly?

The Postmaster-General has now furnished me with the following information in reply: -

The Broadcasting and Television Act restricts the grant of free radio and television licences to those blind persons who are over the age of sixteen years and to schools. However, the act does provide for the issue of licences at a reduced rate to persons in receipt of a service pension or a pension in respect of total and permanent incapacity under the Repatriation Act and to those in receipt of a pension in respect of total and permanent incapacity under the Repatriation (Far East Strategic Reserve) Act. The reduced rates are 10s. in the case of a broadcast receiver’s licence and £1 5s. for a television licence. No change in these provisions of the Broadcasting and Television Act is proposed under the new Broadcasting and Television Bill. Conditions governing the issue of concession rate and other licences under the Broadcasting and Television Act are contained in instructions issued by the Post Office to the officers concerned, who are familiar with all requirements of the act.

page 1293

QUESTION

BOUNTIES AND SUBSIDIES

Senator WRIGHT:

asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice -

Will the Treasurer provide a statement showing the total of each of the bounties and subsidies paid by the Government in the year ended 30th June, 1959?

Senator PALTRIDGE:
LP

– A statement is being prepared and will be forwarded to the honorable senator.

page 1293

QUESTION

CIVIL AVIATION

Senator O’BYRNE:
TASMANIA

asked the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that last February the Department of Civil Aviation heard and gave its support to a submission from the department’s flying operations personnel for a restoration of the flying allowances that were cut out when the general 28 per cent, marginal salaries adjustment was granted?
  2. Has the department’s recommendation for a restoration of the flying allowances been received by the Public Service Board, and, if so, why have the allowances not yet been paid to the flying operations personnel?
Senator PALTRIDGE:
LP

– The answer to the honorable senator’s question is as follows: -

  1. It is a fact that the department has received representations from the Civil Air Operations Officers Association on the subject of allowances to flying personnel and has forwarded these with other relevant information to the Public Service Board which is the approving authority in such cases.
  2. lt is understood that the representations by ihe association are receiving attention by the Public Service Board, lt is also understood that ihe Public Service Board is at present investigating the effect of changes in levels of remuneration in the airline industry and the degree of relationship between those salaries and salaries paid to certain personnel in the Department of Civil Aviation.

page 1294

QUESTION

TAXATION

Senator POKE:

asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. Will the Treasurer, when considering possible Budget concessions, give favorable consideration to applying to residents of King Island a zone allowance similar to those which operate in various parts of Australia for income tax purposes?
  2. Is it a fact that the residents of King Island suffer a considerable freight disability and that the granting of a zone allowance would therefore greatly assist them?
Senator PALTRIDGE:
LP

– The answers to the honorable senator’s questions are as follows: -

  1. The question of zone boundaries is reviewed by the Government periodically and the position in relation to King Island will again be examined in conjunction with the Budget to be presented later this year.
  2. Doubtless freight charges incurred by residents of King Island do affect general living costs. This is not limited to King Island but is a factor in regard to other parts of Australia not within the zones for which income tax deductions are provided.

page 1294

QUESTION

WATERFRONT EMPLOYMENT

Senator PALTRIDGE:
LP

– On 11th May, Senator Wright asked a question concerning the conference convened by Mr. Justice Ashburner following notification by the Minister for Labour and National Ser vice, Mr. McMahon, of the Melbourne waterfront Sunday work dispute to the judge on 4th May.

As a result of a series of conferences called by Mr. Justice Ashburner, the dispute has been settled. Waterside workers have worked on the two Sundays that have fallen since then. Briefly, the terms of settlement provide for a voluntary labour force taken from a special Sunday roster to work certain classes of vessels in the port. There is, however, provision for the normal disciplinary measures to be taken in the event of those waterside workers rostered for a particular Sunday failing to report for work without good cause. The arrangement that has been reached between the parties has been put into operation for an indefinite trial period.

Regarding the second part of the question, 1 am informed that labour was requisitioned for Sunday, 8th May, but waterside workers refused to” work; 798 men were involved and twenty vessels were affected.

page 1294

QUESTION

INDUSTRIAL ARBITRATION

Senator GORTON:
LP

– On 12th May, Senator McManus asked a question without notice relating to fines imposed on trade unions under the Conciliation and Arbitration Act between 1950 and 1960. Senator McManus asked in what cases, if any, the fines have been first, not paid, and secondly, remitted. Following are particulars of unpaid fines imposed between 1950 and 1956 by the Commonwealth Court of Conciliation and Arbitration and after that by the Commonwealth Industrial Court: -

There have been no cases of fines imposed on trade unions under the Conciliation and Arbitration Act being remitted. {: .page-start } page 1295 {:#debate-38} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-38-0} #### ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY {: #subdebate-38-0-s0 .speaker-KOU} ##### Senator HENDRICKSON:
VICTORIA asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice - {: type="1" start="1"} 0. Is it a fact that the Navy authorities propose to vacate Swan Island in June, 1961? 1. Is the Minister aware that the Borough of Queenscliff is endeavouring to secure the return of Swan Island to the borough? 2. Will the Minister advise what his department has in mind regarding the future occupancy of the island, particularly in the light of a statement attributed to the Minister for the Navy that he has no views as to the future of the island and did not propose to try to influence the Minister for the Interior in regard to the matter? {: #subdebate-38-0-s1 .speaker-KOW} ##### Senator HENTY:
LP -- The Minister for the Interior has furnished the following reply: - {: type="1" start="1"} 0. Yes. 1. Yes. 2. At this stage my department has no definite proposals in mind concerning the future occupancy of the island, which is not yet in the hands of my department for disposal. {: .page-start } page 1295 {:#debate-39} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-39-0} #### IMMIGRATION {: #subdebate-39-0-s0 .speaker-KUD} ##### Senator McMANUS: asked the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration, upon notice - {: type="1" start="1"} 0. Is it a fact that a Greek working man is reported to-day to be bringing his wife and six children to Australia by instalments at his own expense? 1. Is it also a fact that this man has been parted from his wife for live years and that he cannot hope to bring her here for at least two years? 2. As certain other migrantsfrom a variety or countries receive from the Government substantial assistance to bring themselves and their families to Australia, why is there apparently no provision to assist such a good family man as **Mr. Scoundouroglou** and others like him? 3. Does not this inequality of treatment open the door to suggestions that Australia observes a policy of racial discrimination as regards European migrants? 4. Will the Government re-examine the position to ensure reasonably equal treatment for all Continental European nationalities? {: #subdebate-39-0-s1 .speaker-KOW} ##### Senator HENTY:
LP -- The Minister for Immigration has furnished the following reply: - 1 and 2. It is the policy of the Government to encourage families to migrate as complete units, as evidenced by the fact that over 70 per cent. of Australia's intake of assisted migrants is comprised of families. However, in the case mentioned, the bread-winner chose to travel to Australia ahead of his dependants. He made his own travel arrangements and did not come here as an assisted migrant. **Mr. Scoundouroglou** arrived in Australia on 26th April, 1956, and at any time since has been at liberty to apply for the admission of his wife and children as unassisted migrants. 3, 4 and 5. If **Mr. Scoundouroglou** had been brought to Australia by the Commonwealth Government under the assisted passage scheme, his wife and children would also have been eligible for assisted passages. The assisted passage schemes are designed primarily to attract those types of workers, with their families, we need to maintain a balanced intake. By arrangement between the Greek Government, the Intergovernmental Committee for European Migration and the Commonwealth Government, only those Greeks who themselves are selected for migration to Australia under the assisted passage scheme may subsequently nominate their dependants for similar assistance. Obviously there would be no limit to the financial commitments of the parties to the agreement if those who travel to Australia independently of the assisted passage scheme were able to obtain assisted passages for their families. In the light of the foregoing information, the fact that **Mr. Scoundouroglou's** dependants are not eligible for a Governmental contribution towards passage costs in no way implies discrimination against migrants from his country. {: .page-start } page 1295 {:#debate-40} ### CANBERRA COMMUNITY HOSPITAL {:#subdebate-40-0} #### Report of Public Works Committee {: #subdebate-40-0-s0 .speaker-JYA} ##### Senator O'BYRNE:
Tasmania .- I present the report of the Public Works Committee on the following subject: - >Construction of a new main hospital block at the Canberra Community Hospital, Australian Capital Territory - and move - > >That the report be printed. I shall outline the report very briefly to the Senate. The new hospital block will increase the accommodation available at the hospital to 610 beds. It is necessary to increase the size of the hospital in order to meet the demands of the ever-growing population of the Australian Capital Territory. It was pointed out to the committee that by 1970 the population of Canberra will be 104,000, and a hospital of the size proposed will be necessary to meet the needs of that number of people. The new block will be of seven stories and will be situated on the Acton peninsula, adjoining the present hospital. The site is ideal for a hospital, and the committee believes that the building will represent a landmark in Canberra and will form part of the growing skyline of this beautiful city. Evidence was taken from various persons. Although much of the evidence was highly technical, it was all most interesting. The information gained during the committee's inquiry made it quite clear that the proposed construction is warranted, and that the people concerned in the preparation of the plans should be commended on having done a very good job. As I have said, the site is on a peninsula, and special provisions had to be included in the plans to provide protection in the event of an unusually severe flood. This protection is provided by means of a levy, which will be both useful and ornamental, and which will be substantial enough to hold back a flood of proportions as great as any that has ever been recorded in the Molonglo River. When the lakes scheme is completed the hospital will occupy a most aesthetically pleasing position. I should also mention that the total cost of the two stages of construction will be £2,854,000. The completed hospital will, however, care for the needs of Canberra for at least twelve to fifteen years. The committee has recommended that after this central hospital is completed attention should be given to long-range planning for smaller ancillary hospitals in the suburban areas. The Acton site is most suitable for a hospital of the proposed size, and evidence given by experts in hospital administration indicate that the most economical hospitals are those containing about 600 beds. For these reasons the committee submits its report to the Parliament and commends the Department of Works for the elaborate care taken in the presentation of the plans. Question resolved in the affirmative. {: .page-start } page 1296 {:#debate-41} ### APPROPRIATION BILL (No. 2) 1959-60 [No. 2] Bill received from the House of Representatives. Standing Orders suspended. {:#subdebate-41-0} #### First Reading {: #subdebate-41-0-s0 .speaker-JZY} ##### Senator PALTRIDGE:
Minister for Civil Aviation · Western Australia · LP -- I move - >That the bill be now read a first time. {: #subdebate-41-0-s1 .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT:
Western Australia -- In answer to a question by **Senator Scott** this morning the Minister for National Development **(Senator Spooner)** said that the ban on the export of iron ore was still in existence, and that he would not be discussing the matter with the Japanese Government or with Japanese commercial interests during his coming overseas tour, when he will be looking for new markets for various commodities. I want to suggest that the ban on the export of iron ore from Australia is not justified. I have asked several questions in the Senate about this matter, and I have been unable to get any specific information as to the extent of iron ore resources that exist in Australia. However, the Minister did go so far as to say that a recent survey of resources has revealed that there are greater quantities than was previously thought. I might also suggest that because of the existence of the ban on the export of iron ore, prospectors are not interested in discovering new deposits, although it is known that deposits do exist which have not yet been explored. We know that this is particularly so in Western Australia. I propose to give the Senate information concerning iron ore reserves in Western Australia. Unfortunately I have not been able to obtain the information for the rest of Australia. The Western Australia Mining Act provides that all iron ore deposits remain the property of the Government, and claims cannot be pegged by prospectors for any purpose. The Senate will remember that in 1956 the Western Australia Government asked for permission to export 1,000,000 tons of ore, but that permission was refused. The letter of refusal sent to the Premier of Western Australia was over the signature of **Sir Arthur** Fadden, who was then acting for the Prime Minister. It is interesting to note that the Western Australia Government has recently called tenders for the export of 10,000,000 tons of ore, and that **Sir Arthur** Fadden is a director of one of the companies that have submitted tenders. The Western Australia Geological Survey Branch has, since 1955, been conducting a survey of the resources of Western Australia, and it has published its findings in a geological survey, " Mineral Resources of Western Australia Bulletin No. 7. Iron Ores in Western Australia." Honorable senators will be interested in certain passages that I shall read from this document. In the prefatory notes the Government Geologist, **Mr. H.** A. Ellis, says - >This Mineral Resources Bulletin gives an account of the Geological Surveys in which all the Iron Ore Resources of the State as at June, 1959. . . . With the exception of the Cockatoo and Koolan Islands deposits, which are of a younger geological age and continue in depth with hematite deposits, available information proves that mainland hematite and limonite deposits which are associated with Banded Iron Formations (jaspilites or ferruginous quatzites) change in depth below the surface to magnetite at Tallering Range and Koolyanobbing, and will certainly do so in all the other deposits described in this Bulletin as being associated with Banded Iron Formations. The assumptions made by the authors in arriving at ore-reserve estimates and grades are clearly stated in the text, and should be heeded by any one quoting this publication as an authority. The whole of such data as it applies to Mainland deposits is of a reconnaissance nature and is of value as a guide to surface dimensions and surface grades only. That means that the deposits, in the main, have not been explored at depth, so that the actual quantities that remain below the surface are not known. Honorable senators will note that the survey is limited and somewhat conservative. The geologist's report continues - >It can be safely accepted that there are hundreds of millions of tons of limonite-hematite-magnetite ore with a 20 to 30 per cent, metallic iron content associated with the Banded Iron Formations in the western half of the State southwards from Port Hedland. lt can be also confidently stated that some of the Mainland deposits would be found to be capable of providing high grade limonitehematite iron ore in quantities commensurable with the needs of a steel industry if they were adequately tested. > >As at June, 19S9, all deposits of iron-ore on the Mainland of Western Australia are reserved to the Crown and consequently no deposit is available for pegging as a mining tenement under the mining act. Reserves. The deposits described in this Bulletin and on which qualified ore reserve deposits have been made along the lines mentioned above and in the text give an inferred reserve as follows: - High grade ore (above plain level), 60 per cent., plus Metallic Iron: 275,000,000 long tons. Low grade ore (above plain level), 30-45 pei cent. Metallic Iron: 223,000,000 long tons. Low grade ore, under 30 per cent. Metallic Iron: Probably many hundreds of millions of tons. {: .speaker-K7A} ##### Senator Spooner: -- What is the date of that report? {: #subdebate-41-0-s2 .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- The survey goes up to 1959 but I did not obtain this report until about last February. {: .speaker-KSL} ##### Senator Maher: -- Would it not be better to build a steel works, treat the ore in Western Australia and export the finished product? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- We in Western Australia would welcome that, especially in view of the Government's action in sponsoring the exportation of coking coal from New South Wales and probably from Queensland. We think it would be just as cheap to take the coal to Western Australia and set up a steel industry there. But that has not been done. As will be seen from the report to which I have referred, there are millions of tons of high-grade ore in Western Australia and very large deposits of lower grade iron ore. Here I inform the Senate that the highest grade of iron ore that it is possible to get is that containing 70 per cent, of iron. I point out that when we in Western Australia refer to high-grade iron ore we talk about ore with an iron content in excess of 60 per cent. - most of it ranges from 67 per cent, to 69 per cent. - so honorable senators will realize that the iron ore is of very high grade. The government geologist's report goes on to say that the main purpose of the bulletin is presentation of factual data on Western Australian iron-ore deposits. The Senate, therefore, will understand that, from the scientific point of view, this is not an attempt to elaborate something which does not exist. The geologist draws attention to the various types of iron-ore that exist and mentions the possibility of using them when they contain other minerals. Under the heading " Silica ", he says - >High silica ores are uneconomical to use in ordinary blast furnaces by reason of the high fuel, consumption caused by the excessive amount of slag obtained. Furthermore, such ores require large quantities of lime to neutralize the silica. Such low iron-high silica ores should therefore be beneficiated prior to smelting or sweetened in smelting with high grade ore or scrap iron. Here I emphasize that the approximate amount of ore ranging between 30 per cent, and 45 per cent, is 223,000,000 tons and that containing over 60 per cent, of iron is 275,000,000 tons. These ores when mixed still give a tremendous quantity of high-grade ore. Later, I shall deal with what can be done with the ores containing less than 30 per cent, iron and still have a high-grade product. I shall also refer to what can be done with the ores ranging between 30 per cent, and 45 per cent. In addition to the actual iron ores, we have in Western Australia large deposits of pyrites, although specific information as to them is not available because they have not been explored thoroughly. A little while ago, some publicity was given to the fact that Japan might be interested in taking pyrites instead of the actual ore. For the benefit of honorable senators I mention that pyrites is ore in sulphide form, rather than in oxidized form. Under the heading " Pyrites " the geologist reports - >This sulphide of iron occurs in bodies of some magnitude in this State and is mined from one locality (Norseman) for its sulphur content. It contains 47 per cent, of iron but is not considered as a source for that metal. It will be noted that even in that deposit of pyrites at Norseman there is reasonably high-grade iron. We do know that the deposits at Koolyanobbing contain pyrites at a depth of about 800 feet down. The geologist goes on to say - >The presence of abundant limonite at the surface is an indication that a sulphide body may exist at depth, as demonstrated at Koolyanobbing and **Mr** Caudan where brown iron ore at the surface gives way to pyritic bodies at depth. > >Limonite is essentially a superficial weathering product of hematite and is of common occurrence in most ore bodies. In certain instances, where it forms a gossan over pyritic ore bodies at depth it is the predominant ore mineral and forms deposits of considerable magnitude. The iron content of limonite is 60 per cent. We have large deposits of liminite in Western Australia. {: .speaker-JZU} ##### Senator Ormonde: -- Is there a demand for it? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- There is a demand for it, but I do not want to deal with that at the moment. I have referred to the use of lower-grade iron ore in furnaces by the application of a system of beneficiation with either scrap iron or other iron-ores. The geologist also refers to that. He makes some lengthy reference to it. I do not propose to read the whole of his report on that matter, but under the heading, " Beneficiation of low-grade ores ", he says - >Beneficiation is a metallurgical process by which poor ores are sufficiently improved in grade to yield an economic burden for the blast furnace. The vast reserves of banded iron formations in this State have a relatively low iron content, varying between about 30 per cent, and 40 per cent. Also their high percentage of silica would require great amounts of fuel and limestone flux if fed to the blast furnace as mined. It is therefore essential for these ores to be upgraded to such a degree as to make them a suitable blast furnace feed. > >Beneficiation methods using low grade magnetic ores are already largely practised outside Australia, particularly in the United States of America, and vast sums are being spent in developing new techniques for concentrating low grade hematitc ores identical to our Western Australian jaspilites There are no insurmountable obstacles to the solution of the problem. I suggest that while the Minister for National Development is overseas he should examine this aspect in America to see whether there is some way in which lowgrade ores can be used in Australia instead of using all of our high-grade ores first and then having to fall back on low-grade ores, causing perhaps a slump in the industry and heavily increased costs that would increase the price of steel to the Australian public. By a system of beneficiation we may be able to extend the life of iron ore deposits in Australia. I emphasize that we in Western Australia believe that there is sufficient iron ore in Australia to allow 5,000,000 or 10,000,000 tons to be exported. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- Does not the Minister make available the survey that has been made of these ores in Australia? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I asked him for that information, but he was of the opinion that as some of the ore bodies in the eastern States were held by private enterprise it would not be fair to expose their assets. I accept that, but I emphasize that that is not the position in Western Australia, where iron ore deposits are reserved to the Crown. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- Why cannot a public official make an assessment for the information of Parliament? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I do not know. Let us have a look at Australia's present needs. It is not of much use to try to predict what we shall need in some years, although we do know that our needs will increase as money becomes available for capital works in the steel industry. Australia's annual consumption now is about 4,500,000 tons. My authority for that statement is the publication " Australian Facts and Figures ", No. 62, at page 51. There are vast ore resources in Western Australia and very large deposits in South Australia and Queensland. We believe that Western Australia's reserves alone could keep the steel industry in its present position for over 70 years. With beneficiation of low-grade ores, there does not seem to be any limit to the extent to which Australia can supply its own market. I should like to refer to the system of beneficiation by the use of scrap iron or steel. 1 ascertained from a question I asked the Minister that we were still exporting scrap iron and scrap steel which, in my opinion, should be retained in this country and used to benefit the low-grade ores, instead of our continuing to use all highgrade ores. We are also allowing a Japanese firm to salvage wrecked ships in Darwin harbour for Japan's steel industry. Those could be used in Australia. {: .speaker-KAC} ##### Senator Vincent: -- Why dc you advocate the export of iron ore while objecting to the export of scrap iron? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I do not object to the export of scrap iron, but if we are so short of iron ore that we have to place a ban on its export, we should not be exporting scrap iron that could be used for the beneficiation of low-grade ore. {: .speaker-KAC} ##### Senator Vincent: -- You are not now objecting to the export of scrap iron to Japan? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I am, if the ban on the export of iron ore is continued. {: .speaker-KAC} ##### Senator Vincent: -- I am asking why you object to the export of scrap iron while you advocate the export of iron ore. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I think the honorable senator is trying to engage in crossexamination. {: .speaker-KAC} ##### Senator Vincent: -- I am trying to find out what your argument is. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- My argument is that the Western Australian Government should be granted a licence to export iron ore. If we are so short of ore that we cannot afford to export 5,000,000 or 10,000,000 tons, we should not export a commodity which could build up our iron ore reserves by a system of beneficiation. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- What is that system? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- If the honorable senator wants to make a speech on this subject, he may do so. I feel that there is a vested interest in this matter. {: .speaker-KAC} ##### Senator Vincent: -- You do not know. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- Do I not? Even though we are short of steel and milled steel products in Australia, we are still exporting steel and milled steel products, and we are importing from Japan and other countries steel and milled steel products. If the Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited is unable to supply the Australian market with the amount and types of steel required, a licence could be given for the export to Japan of 10,000,000 tons of ore, on condition that Australia be supplied with the commodities that the B.H.P. company cannot supply. There does not seem to be any reason why the ore reserves of Australia should be reserved for the Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited, when that company is not meeting the requirements of the Australian market. It is not that the market is growing so quickly that the company is unable to keep up the demand. The fact is that although the company is unable to supply the Australian market, it is exporting steel. Quite recently **Senator Spooner,** in answer to a question said that the exports of steel in 1959-60 had been greater in the first half of the year than in the second. We all know that during the first half of 1959-60 there was a steel strike in America and it would appear that B.H.P. was trying to ease itself into a market that was previously held by America. It was trying to build up an export market although it could not supply Australian needs. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- Is it not a very good thing to build up an export market from Australia? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- In view of that remark, **Senator Wright** may agree with my proposition that there should be an export of iron ore from Australia. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- I am very interested in your case. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- In order to maintain our balance of payments, we can bring money into Australia by the export of iron ore, in addition to milled steel products. The steel products that are in short supply in Australia at the present time are. in the main, rods that are used to reinforce concrete in the building industry. That type of steel should be the easiest to obtain* 1 have here an undated newspaper, cutting which states that a shortage of steel threatens building projects. It reads - >A shortage of structural steel threatened to hold up big building projects in Sydney, contractors said last night . . . The shortage is causing a concern to the building industry . . . **Mr. Dusseldorf** said that the shortage affected the supply of steel girders and steel bars used to reinforce concrete. I would have thought that the production of such steel would not be a complicated operation for a company such as B.H.P. The company should be able to keep up with the demands of the market in Australia. I suggest that if Australia were to export iron ore to Japan, one of the conditions of the export licence should be that the first market that Japan supplies should be the Australian market. That would mean that while B.H.P. was building up to a point where it could supply the Australian market, we would have another steel industry supplying the requirements of Australia. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- Would you advocate the establishment of a Japanese steel industry in Australia if that country was prepared to establish such an industry? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- Yes. {: .speaker-KAC} ##### Senator Vincent: -- With Japanese labour? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I think the honorable senator is aware of the immigration policy of this Government and of the Labour Party. I asked the Minister for National Development a question about the import of steel into Australia during the last few years and I was given information as follows: - >There has been a strong upsurge in local demand for most types of steel mill products since the third quarter of 1959 which local production is unable to meet. Depending upon availability of supplies from overseas sources, it is estimated that in 1959-60 imports from Japan will be 25,000 tons and from all other countries 150,000 tons. That makes a total of 175,000 tons. In the Sydney " Sun " of 22nd March, 1960, there appeared a statement under the heading " More Steel from Japan?". It read - >Tokyo, Mon., AAP. - Japanese steel mills believed that they would be able to increase their exports to Australia substantially this year, the Japan Iron and Steel Federation said to-day. > >About 45,000 tons of hot coils and other steel products have recently been contracted for export to Australia, it said. > >It was hoped that the total exports this yea would reach 100,000 tons, compared with about 5,000 tons last year. It will be seen that Japan hopes to have a growing export market in Australia for steel. Of course, if Australia requires steel from Japan that country has to get its iron ore from somewhere in order to make the steel. By exporting iron ore to Japan we would be serving a double purpose. The figures show that in 1956-57 Australia exported 61,450 tons more steel than it imported; in 1957-58, 119,394 tons; and in 1958-59, 158,801 tons. For 1959-60 it is estimated that we will export 1 50,000 tons more than we will import. There is a continual increase in the imports of steel into Australia, despite the efforts of B.H.P. to cope with the market. If we granted a licence for the export of up to 10,000,000 tons of iron ore, and it was considered that such export would shorten the life of Australia's own resources, the period involved would be very small. Western Australia would gain considerably if an export licence were granted. The Government of Western Australia has not made public - quite properly so - the terms of the tenders it recently called, but in 1956 the price at which the Western Australian Government was negotiating with Japan was £7 a ton. On that basis the granting of an export licence would bring to Western Australia something like £70,000,000. The value of the ore probably has risen since the time of which I am speaking, but it was then in excess of the market price. The steel manufactured from it is of such high grade that prospective purchasers are prepared to pay practically any price to get the ore. In addition to the £70,000,000, to which I have referred, being brought to Western Australia by the granting of an export licence, our balance of payments position would be affected beneficially, and the commencement of the industry would provide employment. 1 remind the Senate thai for some time now the degree of unemployment in Western Australia has been greater than that in any other State, although the overall unemployment percentage in Australia has been comparatively low. The establishment of a steel industry in Western Australia would help to alleviate unemployment. The Japanese are interested in the Mount Goldsworthy deposits, which are some miles from Port Hedland. A modern port would have to be developed at Port Hedland. The Japanese have gone so far as to make some offers in this connexion. The newspaper correspondent in Japan, to whom I have referred, stated - > **Mr. Frank** Duval, of Duval and Co., told me in Tokyo that, provided his company was assured that the **Mr Goldsworthy** deposit has a grade between 60 to 65 per cent, iron ore, and a minimum of 10 million tons *were* available, they would spend up to £41 million on development of harbour facilities of Port Hedland. 1 shall return to that statement later in my remarks. If we can accept the statement as correct - 1 have no factual evidence in this respect - the Japanese are prepared to spend £4,500,000 at Port Hedland. 1 understand from the harbour authorities in Western Australia that a similar offer has been made to them, although not in writing. {: .speaker-JZY} ##### Senator Paltridge: -- Does the honorable senator know how the Japanese propose to transport the ore to Japan? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- No, I have no information on that point. As we know, the Commonwealth Government proposes to spend in the north-west of Western Australia, over a period of five years, the sum of £5,000,000. It must be remembered that none of that sum can be expended on works below the twentieth parallel. Port Hedland is south of the twentieth parallel, so that it will not benefit from the Commonwealth grant. The offer to which I have referred provides the opportunity for a modern port to be established there. It is true to say that a large part of the high grade iron ore in Western Australia is tied up by the Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited. I refer to the deposits at Cockatoo Island and at Koolan Islands, which are large deposits of very high grade ore. The Western Australian Government receives ls. 6d. a ton for the ore that is mined there. Honorable senators therefore will appreciate that the Western Australian Government would be able to make more than ls. 6d. a ton if the Mount Goldsworthy deposits returned £7 a ton. {: .speaker-KSL} ##### Senator Maher: -- For what length ot *time* has B.H.P. rented the deposits? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- For an unlimited period. The company is at present negotiating to obtain control of ore bodies further south in the State. To date, it has not been given control of them, but it is still negotiating. There is no doubt that the refusal of the Commonwealth Government to grant a licence to export iron ore is assisting B.H.P. to gain a monopoly of the iron ore reserves of Australia, particularly those of Western Australia. As honorable senators are no doubt aware, certain minerals have to be mixed with iron ore to make special types of steel. One of those minerals is manganese. We export quite large quantities of manganese, as well as other minerals, but at this stage iron ore is the only mineral in respect of which there is an export ban. The "West Australian" of 27th July, 1959, stated- >An Australian firm holds orders for a shipment of steel worth about £500,000 which is understood to be going to Russia. I do not want to weary the Senate by reading any more of that article. I merely point out that if the statement that I have just read is correct, steel products to the value of about £500,000 are leaving this country, although Australia is short of steel products. It is interesting to note that B.H.P. is attempting to acquire a monopoly of iron ore reserves in Western Australia and, I should think, in other States as well. Although the company proposes to spend a large sum of money on the construction of new plants, none of the money is to bs spent in Western Australia. On 26th May last, an article in the press stated - >Three new projects costing over £20,000,000 have been announced by Broken Hill Proprietary Co. Ltd. Chief general manager I. M. McLennan said that an £1 1,000,000 structural steel mill would be built at Whyalla, South Australia, an £8,600,000 rod mill at Newcastle, New South Wales, and an electrolytic tinplate plant at Port Kembla. . . . The company wants to have a monopoly of Australia's iron ore deposits, but it is not prepared to spend money to develop the deposits in Western Australia, although those deposits would yield 209,000,000 tons of ore, of a grade in excess of 65 per cent. I point out that the company has spent approximately £5,000,000 on the establishment of a rolling mill at Kwinana. There is no obligation on it to increase the size of that mill, although under the agreement, it was required to investigate the qualities of Collie coal, to see whether or not such coal would be suitable for use in a steel plant, but having done so, there was no obligation on the company to use the coal. The investigation was the limit of its obligation. If this policy is continued all that Western Australia will get out of it will be a hole in the ground. It is true that some port facilities will need to be constructed at . Koolan Islands. There are port facilities at present on Cockatoo Island and others will have to be constructed at Koolan Islands. But when the iron ore deposits on those islands are exhausted the port facilities will not be of any use to anybody. There is no commercial activity on the islands that could make use of the port facilities later. In addition the Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited proposes to set up a plant in Tasmania. That company proposes to take from Western Australia to Tasmania each year some 77,000 tons of manganese for treatment. It proposes to ship the manganese either from Geraldton or Port Hedland, in Western Australia. I think that most of the ore will come from Port Hedland, because the deposits at Peak Hill, which are shipped through Geraldton, are fast running out and there is no guarantee that the company would be able to export through Geraldton for any lengthy period. Therefore, most of the ore must come through Port Hedland. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- Are you proposing an export embargo on ore from Western Australia? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I am proposing something different from a hole in the ground. Previously in the Senate I have referred to the large quantities of bauxite that we have in Australia. The Bell Bay aluminium factory imports bauxite from Malaya and Indonesia. At present three trial shipments of bauxite are being prepared for despatch to Japan. I wonder whether an export embargo will be placed on bauxite in view of the fact that we may want to export large quantities of it at a later stage. 1 am now referring not so much to the embargo on the export of manganese to Tasmania as to the need for the development of a modern port at Port Hedland, involving an expenditure of £4,500,000, which would not be a heavy commitment for the Australian Government or the Western Australian Government to undertake. The 77,000 tons of manganese that is shipped to Tasmania, mainly through Port Hedland, plus the 50,000 tons that is at present shipped from Western Australia for export and local use - again mainly through Port Hedland - represents quite a large quantity of ore to be shipped through such a port. In answer to a question to-day the Minister for National Development **(Senator Spooner)** referred to specific works for the development of the north of Australia. The improvement of port facilities at Port Hedland would be of advantage to Western Australia and, from a defence angle, would be of great advantage to Australia as a whole. There is no doubt that, with the existing facilities at Port Hedland, shipments of ore in the large quantities that I have mentioned cannot be continued. For the information of the Senate I propose to cite some statistics regarding the harbour at Port Hedland. There is a rise and fall in the spring tide of 19 feet and in the neap tide of 12 feet. At low tide the depth of water at the jetty is 20 feet. That means that the maximum safe loading level is only 19 ft. 6 in. Careful consideration must be given to the types of ships that can safely be brought into and taken out of the port, and the quantity of cargo that they may take out. I also remind the Senate that the tide in this port runs at approximately 7 knots. It is very difficult to take a ship laden with a dead cargo, such as manganese, out with the tide, but serious trouble is occasioned if an attempt is made to take it out against the tide. The passage from the jetty out of the port has a very sharp S bend in it. This constitutes a hazard as a ship heavily laden with a dead weight load is very difficult to manoeuvre. The rise and fall of the tide is not constant and during some months of the year there are only about two periods of three days in the month when a ship could be moved out of the harbour at all because of the tide conditions. Those are reasons why consideration should be given to developing a port in this area. During the periods when ships cannot get out of the port the berthing facilities in the port cannot cope with the ships that are there, bearing in mind that one berth must be kept open for the State shipping service. A laden ship cannot be taken away from its berth and anchored in the stream, as can be done in other harbours, because there is not sufficient room and the practice is frowned upon by the port authorities. It is impossible to have two manganese ships in the port at the one time, one waiting for a suitable tide in order to get out of the port and the other loading. The port can handle only one ship at a time. The approximate tonnage of ore that can be handled each week at Port Hedland with the present facilities is 4,000 tons. So with 77,000 tons being shipped to Tasmania and between 40,000 and 50.000 tons being shipped overseas and for local requirements annually, it will be seen that that represents one ship in the port almost every week. Taking into account the dead periods when ships would not be loading because shipping could not be moved, the average would be one ship a week in port. Ships that handle ore at Port Hedland must be specially constructed. With a tide variation of nineteen feet a ship must be equipped with extra long derricks to enable continuous loading during changes in the tide. I have had to stop a ship from loading because of danger to workmen below. There are no bulk facilities at this port. The ore has been brought down in steel buckets on trucks, and I believe it is now brought by road transport; but whatever the way it is carried it has to be lifted off the trucks with a derrick and fed into the hold with a tail chain. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- In what capacity were you acting when you did that? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I was an organizer for the Australian Workers Union. When an ordinary ship reaches this stage of being loaded, only two courses are open. Loading can continue in a dangerous manner to the workmen on board, or loading can cease whilst the tide is out and wait until the tide comes in to raise the ship to give it the necessary head room on the derricks te enable it to handle the ore. {: .speaker-JZY} ##### Senator Paltridge: -- Would you not consider that the installation of bulk loading facilities should be done at the same time as the other port improvements are effected? {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I have no details of what the Japanese propose to do at the £4,500,000 port, but it would seem to me that if any one wanted to handle the export of 10,000,000 tons of ore - if the licence is granted - as bulk cargo from a particular port, it would be necessary to put in bulk facilities. But bulk facilities would not be of the least bit of use at Port Hedland at the present time. They would probably enable a ship to be loaded a little quicker, but you would be limited as to the movement of the ship by the conditions of the port. I could not impress more strongly on the Government the case for the granting of an export licence for 10,000,000 tons of iron ore. I consider that if the Government continues to impose an embargo on the export of iron ore and thereby prevent the money that is coming into the State for development from being applied in this direction, it has an obligation to make a greater amount of money available to Western Australia for the development of that area. There are deposits of other minerals there that could be developed if the facilities were made available. It is nearly time that there was another port of some substance north of Geraldton, because there is nothing you can really get down to north of Geraldton. I think it was in 1958 that the Commonwealth made an amount of £2,500,000 available to the Western Australian Government for the development of the part of the State north of the twentieth parallel. One of the projects that was approved to be undertaken with that amount was the development of a deep-water port. {: .speaker-KSL} ##### Senator Maher: -- The total amount granted was £5,000,000. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- In the first instance £2,500,000 was granted and subsequently, as an election issue, a further £2,500,000 was granted. {: .speaker-K2I} ##### Senator Branson: -- That is not right. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- The first intimation the Western Australian people were given concerning the second amount of £2,500,000 came from the Prime Minister **(Mr. Menzies)** during an election campaign. We are entitled to draw a certain inference from that. {: .speaker-KSL} ##### Senator Maher: -- But it was acceptable. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- Of course it was; we are not growling about that. As I have said, one of the projects that was approved to be undertaken with that amount of £2,500,000 was the development of a deepwater port. That offer was made to the Western Australian Government in 1958, but to date nothing has been done in respect of it. {: .speaker-KSL} ##### Senator Maher: -- There has been something done at Wyndham. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- There has been a little bit of work done at Wyndham, but not on the construction of a deep-water port. An additional berth was provided to enable vessels belonging to the State Shipping Service to use the port at the same time as meat ships were there. {: .speaker-KAF} ##### Senator Wade: -- I invite you to have a look at Portland in Victoria. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- It is all very well for **Senator Wade** to talk about Victoria. I have heard so much about Victoria that I am a little tired of the subject. You call our Narrows bridge in Perth the Bolte bridge. We say we keep Newcastle and Port Kembla on the map. We get many goods from Victoria and by so doing we keep Victorians in employment. The only development there has been in relation to the spending of the amount of £2,500,000 on a deep-water port, as distinct from the development at Wyndham, has been the engagement of the firm of Mansell and Mawson to advise where the port should be established. To me, that seems to be completely silly. These people rank very high as advisers, and consequently the fees they charge for their advice are reasonably high; I would expect that to be the position. The Western Australian Government has the best committee of advisers on its own doorstep, whose services are available at no extra cost; I refer to the masters of the ships trading on the coast. They know where the safe anchorages are and they are familiar with the tides. They are not in favour of the Black Rocks site. {: .speaker-JZY} ##### Senator Paltridge: -- Nor do they all agree on a site. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I do not know whether there would be complete agreement within the firm of Mansell and Mawson. The point I am making is that this committee of experienced people could be consulted, and in the light of the information it furnished, the Government could probably make up its mind where the deep-water port should be established. I think that I have held up the Senate for long enough on this last day of the current sittings, but I felt that I should bring these matters to the notice of honorable senators on behalf of the people of Western Australia. {: .speaker-K7A} ##### Senator Spooner: -- It was a good speech. {: .speaker-K3W} ##### Senator CANT: -- I urge the Minister to give the matter serious consideration during the period ahead and, when the Western Australian Government makes application for an export licence, to keep in mind the factors that I have mentioned. {: #subdebate-41-0-s3 .speaker-K2I} ##### Senator BRANSON:
Western Australia -- My contribution to this debate will be brief, and it will be confined to Division No. 431 - Australian Atomic Energy Commission - for which a vote of £945,000 is sought. I should like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister for National Development **(Senator Spooner),** the Australian Atomic Energy Commissioners, and **Dr. Dalton,** the director, as well as **Dr. Gregory,** who is the scientist in charge of the isotopes section at Lucas Heights, on the remarkably well-run conference on radiation which was held in Sydney last week. There was a most comprehensive programme, during which some 21 papers were presented. Some of them were presented by scientists who are world leaders in their particular field. I think that we are indebted to people such as **Dr. Richman** from the American Atomic Energy Commission, who is a brilliant young scientist, knowledgeable in most fields of science that are related to radiation. Fortunately for us, **Dr. Cornwall** from the United Kingdom, who plays a big part at the Wantage installation, and is a brilliant young man, is going to spend one month in Australia having a look at the problems with respect to pests in grain and other pests such as blowfly and fruit fly. This most interesting scientist has the quality of being able to explain highly technical subjects in language that the layman can understand. **Dr. Mouton,** of the International Atomic Energy Commission, was also present, as was our own very brilliant scientist, **Dr. Gregory,** who is in charge of the isotopes section at Lucas Heights. The programme covered a wide range of subjects, including the following: The remarkable effect of gamma radiation on plants such as lupins and paspalum; the arresting of sprout in potatoes and onions, which has been discussed on previous occasions in this place; the control of pests in walnuts; the prevention of core flush in apples, which is particularly prevalent, I believe, in New Zealand; the preservation of foodstuffs; the sterilization of medical equipment and pharmaceutical goods; the control of insects in grain and the eradication of pests such as blowflies, fruit flies and screw worm. These were just a few of the subjects covered by the various papers presented. The conference was attended by persons representing a wide field of activity. There were representatives of industry, of insurance companies, of public health authorities, of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, of the medical profession, of the universities and of various departments of agriculture. There were also manufacturers' representatives, and others far too numerous to mention. I think the work of the conference should be placed on record, as it is the first occasion on which a conference of this kind has ever been held in Australia. It is one of probably only three that have been held in the world, lt was an outstanding success, as / think is proved by the fact that at the opening of the conference 130 accredited delegates were present. The programme was an intensive one. The conference sat from 9.30 in the morning until 5 in the afternoon, but at the end of three days, when the conference closed, there were still 100 delegates present. I believe this speaks for itself. Any one who has attended conferences running for a period of three days knows that there is usually a big falling-off in attendance towards the end of the period. This did not occur in the case of the conference I have been discussing. The interest was maintained throughout, even to the close of the conference. 1 have some suggestions that I would like to make to **Senator Spooner** arising out of this conference. First, I think that more should be done to educate the people in the peaceful application of the by-products of atomic reaction. Cobalt 60 immediately comes to my mind, because it is one byproduct that is being used extensively in irradiation processes. I think the education of children could be enhanced by organizing exhibitions like the one at Oak Ridge in America and the excellent one at the Melbourne Museum of Applied Sciences. I believe you get a better idea of the functions of a reactor by looking at the model in the museum in Melbourne, which allows sectional views, than you would by inspecting the actual reactor at Lucas Heights. Another suggestion is that industry in Australia should be approached to make some contribution towards research, for which at present the Government is paying. After all, industry has most to gain from use of radio-isotopes. **Dr. Richman** pointed out at the conference that industry in America makes a bigger contribution to research into irradiation than the government does. I was surprised to hear the figures he cited. It appears that about £A.3,000,000 is contributed by the American Government towards research, while £A.9,000,000 is contributed by industry in America. I repeat that industry has most to gain from the use of radio-isotopes, and I think an approach could be made to induce industry to make some contribution, perhaps by way of grants for the purpose of giving brilliant young people university training in scientific subjects. This is one suggestion I would make. I would also ask the Minister to consider a suggestion 1 made in the Senate last year regarding schools. Let me refresh the memory of honorable senators and refer to the courses that are conducted at Harwell in England. In the September, 1959, issue of " Atom ", the monthly bulletin of the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority, the following appears: - >The second course in 1959 on the uses of radioisotopes, specially planned to suit the needs of company directors and senior executives, will be held at Harwell from 29th September to 2nd October, and is open to any interested director or senior company official. That course has, of course, now been concluded. During 1957-1958 nearly 350 company directors and senior executives came to Harwell on fourday courses to learn about the possibilities of using radio-isotopes in their businesses. During this time they were given, in as non-technical a manner as possible - 1 stress that because I am afraid that many people assume that this is a highly technical subject and that it is a field which is open to scientists alone. This is not true. The scientists develop the know-how, and then schools such as I am speaking of can explain to the layman the ways in which he can use these excellent aids in his business. The article continues - During this time they were given, in as nontechnical a manner as possible, an overall picture of how isotopes can be. used, what sort of research is being carried out on further possible uses, and generally how isotopes can be of economic benefit to industry. The introduction of radioisotope techniques into a factory can increase the efficiency of certain operations, can cut out waste by the continuous automatic monitoring of a fast process, or provide research workers with a " new tool " in most cases far more sensitive than ordinary physical or chemical methods. In this connexion I immediately think of thickness gauges. In the printing industry, for instance, a problem arises in keeping a continuous flow of ink at the correct thickness. This can be overcome by monitoring with the use of radio-isotopes* Similar uses of radio-isotopes spring to mind in other industries, such as the steel industry. The article in " Atom " continues - >These courses are primarily for persons who have had no training whatever in radioactivity and are intended to stimulate ideas rather than to teach techniques. The courses are invaluable as a meeting ground on which our research workers can make contact with industrialists who have their own special problems to be solved. The informal discussions between staff and delegates are an important part of the courses and delegates are put in touch with specialists about any particular problems on which they would like information regarding the possibility of using isotopes. I believe that Westminster. Carpets Proprietary Limited in Victoria is making available to industry generally a radiation plant, which it installed originally for its own use. The American and British scientists rated this plant as one of the best in the world. I believe the plant is used for treating goat hair and other hair for anthrax. A number of other industries such as the food packaging industries are using this plant as a test plant for the radiation of food. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- Which carpet plant did you mention? {: .speaker-K2I} ##### Senator BRANSON: -- The plant of Westminister Carpets Proprietary Limited, which, according to the experts from Wantage in the United Kingdom, is one of the most up to date plants in the world. Included in the courses to which I have referred are lectures on the hazards of using radioactive materials and the simple pre cautions required: I think there has been too much fear planted in the minds of the public about the use of isotopes. The dose which is used in a number of instances with respect to foodstuffs has less radioactive matter in it than emanates from the luminous dials of a number of wrist watches. That can be tested by putting a watch in the machine at Lucas Heights. I think the fear complex with respect to atomic energy and radiation has been played up too much. Visits are paid to research reactors and other places of interest in the establishment, and to the Wantage Radiation Laboratories where research is being carried out on the possibilities of using the large sources of radiations with respect to foodstuffs,, pharmaceutical goods, sterilization of medical equipment, and so on. It is interesting to note that this is not a free service, and I am not asking the Minister to provide something for free. The delegates who attend these courses are accommodated at an Oxford college for four nights and brought daily to Harwell by coach. The fee for the course, inclusive of all accommodation, meals, transport and lectures, is £40, payable in advance. Applications are accepted strictly in rotation. From this it will be appreciated that there are far more people applying for these courses than can be accommodated, so the scheme has been successful in England. The Government and all Australians have every reason to be proud of our efforts as a small nation numerically for the remarkable contribution we are making in atomic energy research. That brings me back to the visiting scientists who, although they have read and heard much about what we are doing, were absolutely amazed at the contribution being made by Australia with respect to researchin connexion with radiation. I feel that too many people do not understand what the Lucas Heights reactor is. It is a research reactor. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- What is our expenditure there compared with expenditure in other countries? {: .speaker-K2I} ##### Senator BRANSON: -- According to **Dr. Richmond,** our expenditure on a population basis compares very favorably with that of the United States of America. I think I am right in saying that we have almost £11,000,000 invested in Lucas Heights now, and I believe we have something like £11,000,000 invested at Rum Jungle. We have not yet started to appreciate the real value of the investment of £11,000,000 at Lucas Heights because most of that money has been spent on capital equipment such as the building of offices, research laboratories and so on. But that is not a recurring expense, although there will be a certain amount of depreciation. I should say that within the next five years we shall be enjoying some real return from the money we have invested at Lucas Heights. 1 think the public is going to be happy with the allocation of monies to the Australian Atomic Research Commission. {: .speaker-KNR} ##### Senator Hannaford: -- How much money has been spent at Lucas Heights now? {: .speaker-K2I} ##### Senator BRANSON: -- About £11,000,000. Of course, that is not all capital expenditure, and the proportion of it which is capital expenditure is a nonrecurring expense. We shall really start to see shortly some results for the money we have put into that venture. I feel that too often people who are in a position to influence public thinking place too much emphasis on the potential horror of the power of atomic energy and ignore the good it can bring to mankind if it is used for peaceful application. I think that the advantages when it is used for good far outweigh its potential as a measure for destruction, which has been emphasized so much. People fear it because they do not understand it, and I come back to my original suggestion to the Minister that emphasis be placed on the organization of public relations to convince the public that the use of radioisotopes in particular is not dangerous to public health. I point out that whereas, when the food canning industry started, I believe during Napoleon's time, there was no real outcry from the public health authorities as to whether canned food would be good, bad or indifferent, and the industry went straight ahead, to-day the scientists are proceeding very cautiously in order to allay public fear as to the effect radiation can have on food. That was one factor considered at the conference to which I have referred. It was considered by all the scientists who presented papers, and all of them said, " We are sure this will work; we know it will work; but we advocate caution ". {: .speaker-KNU} ##### Senator Hannan: -- -Did Napoleon introduce food canning? {: .speaker-K2I} ##### Senator BRANSON: -- I believe it was during the Napoleonic Wars that foodstuffs were first canned. That was mentioned at this conference to which I have referred. I cannot quote the authority. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- Do you say that the scientists themselves are moving cautiously? {: .speaker-K2I} ##### Senator BRANSON: -- I said that the scientists were making a cautious approach all over the world in order to avoid alarm as to the effect of radiation on food. They have said that the best way of convincing the public that it was safe was to seize every opportunity to prove to the public that it was safe, that it was effective, that it was progressive and that it was the best way of making peaceful use of the byproducts of atomic energy, a way which would make life just so much better for everybody. In conclusion, I ask the Minister to consider my suggestion about the establishment of courses in the uses of atomic energy in industry. According to **Dr. Richman,** the savings that have been effected in America are fantastic. I believe the oil companies pioneered the use of atomic isotopes energy there and I think there should be more publicity to the effect that although, atomic energy has a shocking potential for destruction it also has just as great a potential for good. {: #subdebate-41-0-s4 .speaker-K7Y} ##### Senator TANGNEY:
Western Australia -- First, I should like to congratulate **Senator Branson** upon his very thoughtful contribution to this debate. My only regret is that this debate did not take place earlier in the session when it would have been more appreciated and when perhaps other honorable senators might have participated in it. I was rather surprised to hear that overseas scientists are amazed at the amount of scientific work being carried on in Australia. I am surprised because it is well known that some of the leading scientists of the world are Australians. For instance, at the Australian National University in Canberra we have men who have made their mark at Harwell and other foundations. We have Professor **Sir Mark** Oliphant and others working here and it is astounding to me that so few in this Parliament, and outside it, know the full extent of the research work in all the branches of arts and sciences being carried out in the capital city, within a stone's throw of the building in which we are meeting this morning. I regret that there has not been a greater allocation by the Government of moneys for civil defence purposes, for civil defence is closely linked with the question of atomic energy. After all, the defence forces are being cut drastically; and although, over the past twelve years the Government has spent something like £2,400,000,000 on defence it is difficult to see anything tangible for that expenditure. Quite recently, in the Senate, 1 questioned the Minister for the Navy **(Senator Gorton)** about the establishment of a naval base or a dock at Fremantle to service shipping in the Indian Ocean and in our northern waters. This would be of great strategic value and almost a necessity in any planned scheme for the defence of the Commonwealth. The Minister's reply was that we could not afford it now but that later on, when the Commonwealth grew, a second large naval base might be desirable, when consideration would be given to the claims of Western Australia. I do not take that answer as being very satisfactory from the point of view of either Western Australia or Australia generally. As I have said, in the last ten years more than £2,000,000,000 has been voted for the defence of this country. If we had a naval dockyard or a naval base in the west, there would be something to show for that vast expenditure. Instead, we embarked upon a half-baked scheme of compulsory training. I should like the Senate to remember that it was a Labour government which, just 50 years ago, introduced compulsory military training for the first time in Australia. This year we are celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the Fisher Labour Government, which was the first Commonwealth Government to have a majority in both Houses of the Parliament. It passed a compulsory military training act. Therefore, it cannot be held against the Australian Labour Party that we are opposed to compulsory military training. The point is that we say that military training should be compulsory and not conducted on a ballot-box method such as was used in the past few years, when only some lads had the advantage of military training and the rest did not. The matter was decided only by chance, lt was a piecemeal scheme, as we said when it was first introduced. It would be interesting to know just how much was spent on it and the advantages that accrued from the expenditure. I do not for one moment say that all of the money was wasted, but the starting and stopping of the project were symptomatic of the unplanned defence projects that have been conducted over the past ten years and for which there is very little to show at this time. With the whittling down of the defence forces, there is no longer any need for the Army to retain all the military establishments that it has in the various States. I see from my perusal of " Hansard " that in some capital cities land held by the Army is being given back to the civic authorities. Once before in this chamber I spoke about an area of land very close to my own home in Claremont, in the Nedlands district, where the Campbell military village has been built and where there is a rifle range. This is excellent residential land, and occupation of it by the Army is impeding the development of a town plan for a fast growing area just near where the British Empire Games village is being built. When I mentioned the matter, the Minister said that no approach had been made with regard to it by any authorities in Western Australia. I understand that just recently the Nedlands council, which controls the adjacent territory, stated that it was quite perturbed by the fact that this land had been alienated for military purposes. I understand that an approach is to be made to have it freed from its present uses so that developmental work may be carried out. If that approach is made, I hope that the Government will give it sympathetic consideration. This is very valuable developmental land in a very good area and it is not being used to full capacity. I want to speak briefly about social services. Yesterday, according to statisticians and others, we entered upon the first month of winter, although some of us felt that winter had been with us for a month or so. The month of May was the coldest May for very many years in both Victoria and Western Australia and we face another three months of severe winter weather. While we do not look forward to a long, cold winter, the position is much more difficult for those who are living on pensions. Many of them are approaching the winter with great fear because of their housing conditions. Sitting suspended from 1.0 to 2.15 p.m. {: .speaker-K7Y} ##### Senator TANGNEY: -- Before the suspension of the sitting, 1 was dealing with the plight of age and invalid pensioners, particularly during the winter months. I am sure that all honorable senators have been moved to pity by the inadequate accommodation, clothing and food that are available to pensioners who have no other income. 1 ask the Government, before bringing down the next Budget, to make a supplementary payment to help to tide these people over the worst of the winter. The Government may say that that cannot be done, but in recent weeks marginal increases have been granted retrospectively even to people earning £6,000 a year. Surely, in the name of humanity and ordinary social justice, we can ask for an adjustment to be made in pensions because of the increased cost of living. I ask that something be done along these lines before the Budget is brought down. One thing that has always riled honorable senators on both sides of the chamber is that even when pensions are increased, the increase is not made retrospective and does not become operative until the amending bill receives the royal assent. That means that sometimes pensioners have to wait until October before receiving their increase. Pensioners and others will have to exist on below-subsistence payments for the next five months. I ask the Government to give some thought to this matter. I raise again the plight of the civilian widows who do not receive the 10s. supplementary rent allowance. At present, only about *2i* per cent, of widows are in receipt of this allowance. That, I think, shows that there is something wrong with the system for assessing the eligibility of pensioners for the 10s. supplementary rent allowance. In many cases a widow who has to pay instalments on a home, as well as rates, taxes and the cost of repairs, is suffering greater hard ship than is experienced by a pensioner living alone and having to pay rent for a room. I do not want to take anything from anybody - that would be the last thing I would advocate - but I do favour some revision of this social services provision so that the civilian widow who is in the position 1 have indicated will receive the benefit of that allowance. 1 desire to bring another matter before the Government. We raise these matters now in the hope that they will receive some investigation before the preparation of the Budget. I suggest that the Government should assist the State governments and semi-governmental bodies, such as councils, road boards and so on, to build homes for the aged. I know that the Government has done a good job in providing assistance to religious and charitable organizations on the £2 to £1 subsidy basis. That scheme has resulted in a great deal more security being given to many aged persons. However, much more could be done if the Government would assist State governments and semi-government instrumentalities to provide homes for the aged. The Government will say, of course, that there is already in existence the Commonwealth and State Housing Agreement and that the States can use money provided under that agreement. 1 agree that there is such an agreement between the Commonwealth and the States, but that agreement has not yet allowed the States to meet the housing requirements of the families in the community that need housing. In my own State, a start was recently made on a plan whereby the State Government will build flats for the aged. The Government will be aided by the State Lotteries Commission. I think that we can almost call this Government a lotteries government, because so much depends on chance. Many people are opposed to lotteries on principle, but it would be a bad thing for many of the poor and afflicted in my own State if we did not have a State Lotteries Commission, which makes grants to those in need. In Western Australia the State Lotteries Commission works in with the State Government in providing money to build flats for the aged. The previous Government - a Labour government - built flats for the aged in West Perth and received a lot of criticism for doing so. It was said that the money made available through the Commonwealth and State Housing Agreement should be used to build houses, not flats. Even in this chamber some of my colleagues from the west criticized the State Government for building flats instead of houses with the money received through the grant which I have mentioned. I ask the Government to make some allowance, in addition to the money provided under the Commonwealth-State Housing Agreement, to the State Government and to municipal and shire authorities to enable them to build flats, or homes of any kind, for the age and widowed pensioners. The grant would not need to be very large. We spend a great deal on the Colombo Plan and in giving help to the downtrodden people of Asia. I am all for that, but we know that charity begins at home. There are a lot of people in this country who are almost as badly off as those living in Asian countries, if we compare the general living standards in our country with those in Asiatic lands. I know that we have to build up goodwill overseas, and I am not deprecating what is done to help other countries, but I am deprecating the fact that insufficient assistance is given in our country to those who are so badly in need. I therefore put two propositions to the Government. The first is that some- bonus payment, if possible, should be made to pensioners receiving the basic pension to assist them to get some degree of comfort, meagre as it would be, over the winter months. Secondly, I ask the Government to investigate more fully the plight of civilian widows and to liberalize the conditions under which they can receive the supplementary rent allowance -of 10s. I also ask the Government to review Commonwealth grants for homes for the aged. 1 suggest that the State governments should be put on the same basis as religious and charitable bodies. I was present with **Senator Robertson** at a conference last Saturday in Perth when this question was raised. A large body of public opinion is behind this proposal. It would not be a case only of giving on the part of the Commonwealth Government. We are not asking that this money be made available for nothing. There will be a certain return in rentals. I have seen the flats that have been established already in West Perth for the aged. The occupants, even though they are only tenants, are very proud of the flats. I am quite certain that this would be one aspect of government expenditure that nobody, either inside or outside the Parliament, would question. Recently 1 raised the question of the Government assisting the State Government in the provision of an east-west road. I was very sorry that the Premier of my own State criticized my action in this matter, saying that it was political propaganda, but I was also pleased to know that after consultations between him and the Premier of South Australia, it was decided that the Government should do something about that matter. I do not mind being charged with using political propaganda if I feel that the matters I advocate in this place are for the betterment of the whole community. Charges and counter-charges are among the hazards of parliamentary life, and I accept them as such. In respect of health benefits, particularly pharmaceutical benefits, the Government approach has been shilly-shallying and lacking in firmness. We know that the pharmaceutical benefits scheme has caused great dissatisfaction amongst doctors and chemists, to say nothing of the general public. In New South Wales, the dissatisfaction found expression in a poll of members of the British Medical Association, the results of which were published in the association's journal. The chemists are dissatisfied with the scheme, and the members of the general public do not know where they stand in relation to it. There is an important aspect of the scheme, in addition to the recent fantastic increases in charges. Because of the fact that charges for hospital accommodation have increased, it is obligatory on subscribers to medical benefit funds who wish to cover the increased charges, to increase their contributions to the funds. They cannot receive the increased benefits until they have been contributing at the higher rates for eight weeks. I think that when it becomes obligatory for people to pay additional contributions to medical benefit societies, they should immediately be entitled to the increased benefits if they have the misfortune to become ill. After all, people do not get sick on purpose. There are much better ways of passing the time than. that. If a person has the misfortune to become ill or to be injured, the increased benefits should be available immediately. In the last few weeks, a conference of educationists from ali States was held in Sydney. In every State one hears the cry that not sufficient is being done by the Commonwealth with regard to education. We know that' the Government did a good job regarding the universities. The recommendations contained in the Murray committee's report were implemented by the Parliament within a very short time of the report being made public. While that is all to the good, we know that only about 3 per cent, of the children who enter primary school go on to the university. Therefore, at the present time there is in our education system a very large gap which the Commonwealth says it is purely the concern of the States to fill. Times have changed, however. If we want to have a democratic people we must have an educated democracy. Education should not be on a piecemeal basis, We must see to it that adequate funds are available to provide a decent standard of education. We are not for one moment suggesting uniformity of education throughout the States - that would be fatal - or that the Commonwealth should interfere with State education departments which know better than does the Commonwealth the problems appertaining to education within State borders; but we do say that the financial responsibility to carry out a comprehensive education programme is one that no Commonwealth government can possibly overlook. The Commonwealth's responsibility in that respect is just as great as is its responsibility to provide for national defence. Therefore, I ask the Government to consider this matter which is agitating the minds of many more people in the community to-day than ever before. I suggest that the Commonwealth Government could appoint a committee, on the lines of the Murray committee, to investigate problems associated with primary and secondary education, with a view to ensuring justice for the younger people of the community. When we are considering the needs of primary, secondary and tertiary education, as well as technical education, we must not forget the contribution that is made by private schools to the solution of educational problems in Australia. Such matters should be properly evaluated by an expert body. We have in the community people who are competent to act asmembers of such a body. Not only have they the necessary educational qualifications, but they also have a very deep sense of responsibility. They are qualified to know what the community should do in this matter. The appointment of an investigating body such as that could do nothing but good, even though the Commonwealth Government did not open its coffers wider than they are open now. 1 think it would be much more satisfactory for a committee, such as the Murray committee, to investigate education problems. I point out that the people of Australia are becoming restive about this matter. If an investigation were instituted by a competent authority into all branches of education, we should be able to discuss means to solve the various problems that are submitted by the education authorities in the States. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator Wright: -- What is the attitude of the State governments to that proposal? {: .speaker-K7Y} ##### Senator TANGNEY: -- I can speak only for my own State government. I do not think there has been any change of attitude since the present Western Australian Government came to office. I know that the previous State government was in favour of having an investigation into the problems of education. I cannot see any reason why a State government, that had a sense of responsibility, should not agree to such an investigation. {: .speaker-KT8} ##### Senator McCallum: -- Should not the State governments agree before we come in? {: .speaker-K7Y} ##### Senator TANGNEY: -- I think that is quite true. I understand that at the conference that took place in Sydney last week, most States were represented. Whether the representatives were representing State governments or merely State education departments, 1 am not certain, but I feel sure that approval of such an investigation would be quickly forthcoming. It is of no use being loud in. our protests about the inadequacy of Commonwealth assistance for education if, when the Commonwealth suggests an inquiry into the matter, we refrain from giving it our support and our blessing. I do not think that aspect should exercise the mind of the Government very greatly. The important thing is for the Government to have the will to do something about the problem. Therefore, I suggest that a committee should be appointed by the Commonwealth Government to investigate education problems, and that the committee's report should be brought to the Parliament with the same expedition as was the Murray committee's report on university problems, because I believe that primary, secondary and technical education are just as important as university education. I come now to a plea that 1 make annually to the Minister for Social Services. It is becoming a hardy annual, as I am myself. I should like to see a committee appointed to investigate the various problems associated with social services, particularly those that affect women pensioners. There are certain anomalies in the social services field which are of particular interest to women. For instance, the wife of an invalid pensioner is supposed to exist on 35s. a week. She simply cannot do so. The woman who could do so should be Treasurer of the Commonwealth, because she would have much more financial ability than anybody in either House of the Parliament. Then, there is the problem of the unmarried woman who has remained at home to assist ageing parents and who is forced to seek employment when they die. There is nothing very much that many such women can do in the way of outside employment. Because of the introduction of labour-saving devices, such as washing machines and ironing machines, even the domestic labour field is not as wide as it once was. In many cases, even if such women could obtain work of a more arduous type, they might not be able to stand up to it. lt is difficult for them to compete with younger women in the field of commercial employment. As we know, such women are not entitled to a pension until they reach the age of 60 years. There is scope for something to be done in this connexion. During the life of a previous Parliament the facilities of rehabilitation centres were extended to widows whose pensions had ceased, because their children had attained sixteen years of age. Such women may now enjoy the benefits of rehabilitation training. 1 suggest that we might be able to do something along those lines for the unmarried women to whom I have referred, lt would not cost the Government very much and would enable the women concerned to become self-supporting. 1 know of no woman who would prefer to receive a pension if she could work and earn a living for herself. Let us consider also the position of wives of totally and permanently incapacitated pensioners. They cannot receive treatment through the Repatriation Department until their husbands die. The wife of a T.P.J, pensioner is not likely to make herself a widow merely to receive repatriation hospital treatment. To extend such treatment to the wives of T.P.I, pensioners would not involve the Government in any great expenditure. After all, these pensioners have become totally and permanently incapacitated in the service of a grateful country and their wives should receive the benefits of repatriation health schemes as war widows do at present. As I have said, the adoption of my suggestion would not involve the Government in any great financial outlay, but even if it did, as a matter of principle 1 would still put it forward. When **Senator Paltridge** was Minister for Shipping and Transport I raised with him the subject of concession fares for pensioners travelling on the Commonwealth Railways. I think that most States permit age pensioners to travel on State railways at concession rates. Quite a number of people who now live in Western Australia came originally from the eastern States. This is particularly true of people who live in the gold-fields areas. Some pf those people have relatives in the eastern States whom they have not seen for many years but they have not been able to save the fare necessary for the one last trip back east which many of them long to make. To many of them just one trip would be the crowning point of their lives. To allow those people to travel on the Commonwealth railways at a concession rate would not cost the Government very much, particularly if they travelled at those times of the year when the trains running between the east and the west are not packed with travellers owing to the popularity of air travel. Air travel is very popular because you can get from Perth to Melbourne in three and a half hours compared with a journey of three and a half days by rail. I ask **Senator Paltridge** to confer with the Minister for Shipping and Transport to ascertain whether concession rail travel can be granted to pensioners. I am not suggesting that pensioners be allowed to travel regularly between the east and the west at concession rates. One trip would be sufficient. Possibly only a few pensioners would be interested in such a concession. If the State governments can make a similar gesture in respect of pensioners travelling on their railway systems, surely the Commonwealth Government can do likewise. I regard the suggestions that I have put forward as practical and I hope that they will bear some fruit before the Budget is presented. {: #subdebate-41-0-s5 .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator WRIGHT:
Tasmania .- During this debate we have listened to speeches that have been of considerable interest to us. First we had a speech from **Senator Cant** about the iron ore industry, and then we had a speech from **Senator Branson** in which he displayed the enthusiasm that he derived from attending a conference last week on atomic energy. Lastly wc had the speech from **Senator Tangney** in which she referred to various matters. It does us good, 1 think, to take the opportunity presented in a debate such as this to put before the Government matters that each of us feels deserve attention in the public interest. Having in mind the potency of brevity, and being an habitual exponent of that idea, I make a firm resolution that my presentation of the three points I want to raise will not lose anything in a confusion of phraseology. First I bring before the Ministry a very earnest request that the programming of this Parliament be reconsidered. Domiciled as we are in an environment rather removed from that of those who work in primary or secondary industry, we would achieve our purpose ever so much better if, on each visit here, we remained for a fortnight and then had a week at home among the people of our decorates. We would have valuable first-hand knowledge of the energy, efficiency, skill and perception of purpose that motivate most government activity in Canberra and we would be able to get to know each other, both Government and Opposition supporters. With the knowledge of the real purpose of individual members comes the understanding which I think enables the parliamentary machine to work best. {: .speaker-L8E} ##### Senator Cameron: -- You have a conflict of interests involved. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator WRIGHT: -- No, I rather think that the conflict of interests involved salts the whole meat and makes it much more palatable. I would be the last to deny to my veteran friend, **Senator Cameron,** the greatest of credit for his persevering interest in the conflict to which he has dedicated himself. I am tremendously pleased that progress attends some of bis efforts. I am equally tremendously determined to oppose his efforts in other directions. When a Parliament ceases to throw up contention as well as co-operation, it will cease to be a Parliament. However, I am departing from my theme. I ask Ministers to forget the idea that when Parliament meets it is an occasion for them to be absent from the chamber and in conclave in the Cabinet. I know that emergency matters arise that demand consideration by Cabinet Ministers, sometimes during parliamentary sittings. Absence of Ministers from the chamber when a private member is speaking on bills and other matters detracts from the spirit of purpose and the spirit of practicality that should mark our deliberations. {: .speaker-KAF} ##### Senator Wade: -- I thought you advocated the elimination of Cabinet Ministers from this chamber. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator WRIGHT: -- Let me examine **Senator Wade's** thoughtful interjection, but only briefly because I have two minutes left for this subject in the time that I have allotted myself. I think that the Senate would work infinitely better if we did not have Ministers in this chamber who are committed to Cabinet decisions. Consider the debate on a bill such as the Broadcasting and Television Bill. Is it not obvious that the debate on that bill would have been heightened and improved if **Sir Garfield** Barwick had been present in the chamber, without the right to vote, but at all times with the right of advocacy with regard to his own measure? Let the Minister from the other place bring forward his bill and let none of the members of this Senate be committed by previous Cabinet decisions. If that were done the Senate could operate independently as a house of review. But that is not my theme at the moment. I make the point that the work of Parliament would be improved tremendously if, instead of coming here on Tuesday morning and going away on Thursday or Friday, being expected to do work at home each week-end, we came here for a fortnight and then went home for a week. The work done here in Canberra would be improved and we would have an opportunity to do work at home which would be ever so much more effective than the work we are able to do at home under present conditions. That is my first point. I had hoped that some Queensland senators, particularly **Senator Wood,** would be present when I spoke because I want to make some observations about the interests of the fruit industry vis-a-vis the sugar agreement. Many of my friends from the southern States earlier this year evinced an interest in the plight of the fruit industry, every section of which, as we know, is in a parlous condition. I am referring both to the citrus fruit industry and to the deciduous fruit industry. {: .speaker-KH5} ##### Senator Gorton: -- I think they call them citrus. {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator WRIGHT: -- I am glad to hear my friend, the Minister for the Navy, say that oranges still have more than pips in them from the point of view of the grower; he is in a position to know. I was thinking more of apricots and peaches and fruits that are grown in South Australia and Victoria. If my information is correct, the growers there are getting a very poor return indeed. In regard to pineapples, the position has been calamitous. I am not too sure of the position in relation to bananas but I do not think that it was any too good. {: .speaker-L8E} ##### Senator Cameron: -- What about sugarcane? {: .speaker-KBW} ##### Senator WRIGHT: -- I am putting forward the point of view that it is folly for the Government to neglect the situation of those fruit-growers. By some means, they must be restored to a position of pros perity, that is to say, comfortable conditions of living. One of the factors that affects them is the provision relating to them in the sugar agreement. That remark is not the prelude to a discussion of the pros and cons of the general policy in relation to the sugar industry. It is an extraordinary set-up that we have adopted there of prohibiting the importation of sugar from abroad - complete governmental control of the industry and complete distribution under governmental control within the country. But I am not debating that. The arrangement is working so efficiently that it is quite beyond my purpose to suggest that there should be any alteration in regard to the organization of the sugar industry. My point - and I make it in simple terms - is that the sugar industry has always recognized a proper relationship between itself and the fruit industry, when a sugar agreement has to be framed for the purpose of securing a benefit for the sugar-grower, to see that the fruit-grower is not damaged. By a measure that we enacted in 1956, the Parliament approved a sugar agreement which was to operate until July, 1961. It was a provision of that sugar agreement that the State should make sugar products available - the State of Queensland - at certain prices, the price of refined sugar of 1A grade being £82 10s. a ton. It was an integral part of that agreement to which the Parliament gave its approval, that Queensland throughout the period of that agreement should make sugar available to Australian consumers at a price that was then agreed upon for the period. The first point that I make is that if the agreement is to be amended, the alteration should be made only with the consent of Parliament. I am sorry to make that remark at the outset, because when I look at the statement that was made by the Acting Prime Minister **(Mr. McEwen)** on 15th May, I find there is so much to be approved with regard to it that it is a pity that the Government's decision in that respect has been blemished by ignoring the fact that parliamentary approval is needed to put it into operation. Notwithstanding that, the statement made on 15th May was to the effect that an increase of the price of sugar was being authorized as from 16th May. It may be that the intention is to bring in a measure in the Budget session, but even if that is the intention there is, I believe, a disregard of Parliament that should not go unnoticed. The next thing that I notice about the statement is a matter of great encouragement. The Acting Prime Minister acknowledged it in these terms - >Having in mind the problems of the canning fruit industry and the link of almost 30 years between it and the sugar industry, the domestic sugar rebate should be increased from £2 4s. a ton to £3 a ton. It is a matter of real pleasure to me that the statement issued by **Mr. McEwen** with, 1 think, a lively consciousness of the position of the fruit industry, contained that observation. The right honorable gentleman recognizes that there is an inseverable link between the fruit industry and the sugar industry. In previous dispensations, recognition of that vital fact was not so freely forthcoming. In saying that I address my remarks particularly to our friend, **Senator Sir Neil** O'sullivan. I remind the Senate that in 1956 the industry was resolutely refused an increase of the domestic sugar rebate, which had stood at £2 4s. a ton since 1934. It is a matter of great satisfaction that an increase from £2 4s. a ton to £5 a ton has been agreed upon by this Government. It is a small and quite insufficient recognition of the needs of the industry because when, during the depression, the rebate was reduced to £2 4s. a ton, the price of sugar was of the order of £36 a ton. The rebate was reduced to £2 4s. a ton from about £6 13s. 4d. a ton only because of the terrific severity of the depression. It is quite obvious that the rebate to-day should be, not a matter of £5 a ton but from £11 to £13 a ton. I make this point with regard to the sugar agreement because I am hoping that the matter will come before us in the form of legislation and that the Parliament will increase the domestic sugar rebate to the proper level. For the present, we must be thankful that the rebate has been increased even to the moderate amount of £5 a ton. I notice with satisfaction that the Government is appointing a committee of inquiry whose report will be available to us before the renewal of the sugar agreement will have to be considered by the Parliament during the Budget session. I am eagerly awaiting the report. I come now to the third matter of which I wish to make small mention. I affirm a growing conviction that all too little attention is paid to scrutinizing all expenditure emanating from this Parliament with an idea of economy. I am pleased to acknowledge that an advocacy extending over several years came to some harbour this year when the Government introduced a measure to amend the Public Works Committee Act. We have now reached a situation that if that committee can be relied upon the Parliament will be so much better informed on projects other than defence projects the estimated cost of which exceeds £250,000. But there is still one great loophole in the Parliamentary supervision of capital expenditure. 1 refer to expenditure by statutory authorities. We have had an instance of it, and, I think, a glaring instance, in connexion with the National Capital Development Commission. We have been told that no less than 27 per cent, of the total capital expenditure authorized by the Parliament last year was spent in this city. I believe that Parliament is altogether too sparsely informed as to the way in which this money is spent. Let me refer, in another context entirely, to the Snowy Mountains Hydro-electric Authority, which is responsible for the expenditure of £20,000,000 each year on a scheme which continues to show, year by year, progress which is, as I know from a recent visit which I made to the scheme, following an earlier visit last year, of the most exciting kind and stirs one's appreciation of the national purpose. I have not the slightest idea of restricting the authorities responsible for carrying out this scheme when I say that it is necessary, under a system of parliamentary government, for the Parliament to have means of ascertaining each year exactly how the money it provides is spent, and some way of carrying out its responsibility to approve or disapprove of expenditure on individual undertakings. Let me bring to the attention of the Ministry a viewpoint that has been expressed previously in this place. If the members of the Government will look at section 16 of the Hydro-electric Commission Act of Tasmania, they will see there a method by which parliamentary interest and responsibility in the expenditures of statutory authority may be properly maintained. This method requires that when an authority proposes a new project for which it invites the authorization of expenditure by Parliament, it must submit to each House of the Parliament an outline of the proposed new work, lt must state, first, its opinion as to the necessity or the desirability of the new work; secondly, the nature of the new proposal; thirdly, the estimated cost of it; fourthly, the amount that the authority thinks is required from loan money and the amount it thinks is required from revenue; fifthly, the amount that it proposes to set aside annually in the sinking fund; sixthly, the estimated cost of working maintenance and depreciation and interest, and, seventhly and lastly - and most importantly - the revenue that it thinks will be derived from the work. I have seen this system operate in the Tasmanian Parliament. I have seen **Mr. Allan** Knight, one of our outstanding engineers both in technical skill and administrative ability, come before the Parliament and, in a committee room with a model before him, outline the whole of a new power development proposal. I have seen the Parliament then collate all the information, and, from the variety of experience of its members, make many observations for the benefit of the commission, or any criticism of it with regard to that project. That is the kind of system that is essential if this Parliament is to achieve a sense of belonging to the Snowy Mountains scheme and maintain its interest in the progress of that scheme for the next twenty years. It is also necessary to have such a system in order to ensure that the great engineers like **Sir William** Hudson who are guiding the scheme in this generation will have a guarantee from the Parliament that the project will continue into the next generation worthy of the effort that these gentlemen have put into it. I plead with the Ministry to consider this matter, not with any view to restricting or prejudicing the progress of this scheme, but for the purpose of achieving mutual understanding between the statutory authority and the parliamentary machine. I believe that such a reciprocal understanding is essential for the successful carrying out of the work and for the proper provision by the Parliament of money to enable the work to be done. 1 have said what I wanted to say upon those three matters. I wish that this appropriation measure were of such a nature that we could discuss it item by item. It is, however, an interim measure, and we must wait until the Budget session for an opportunity to follow that procedure. {: #subdebate-41-0-s6 .speaker-K1T} ##### Senator BENN:
Queensland -- lt is very rarely that I follow **Senator Wright** in debates in this chamber. When I do follow him it is very rarely that I refer to anything that he has said. On this occasion, however, I feel that it is necessary for me to say something about the three subjects on which he has spoken this afternoon. He referred, first, to the way in which the business of the Parliament is conducted. He suggested that the Parliament should sit for a fortnight and deal with as much business as it could, then adjourn for a week, resume for another fortnight and adjourn again for a week, and continue this procedure until the business of the Parliament had been disposed of for the year. Since I have been a member of this Senate I have heard many fanciful theories advanced for improving the manner of conducting the business of the Parliament. Whatever merit any of them may have had, none of these suggestions has ever been adopted. I have deduced, from what has happened over the years, that the procedure we follow at the present time gives the greatest satisfaction to those concerned, meaning, of course, the members of the House of Representatives and the members of this Senate. Members of the House of Representatives have informed rae that it is necessary for them to be in their electorates as frequently as possible. They like to be there at the end and at the beginning of each week. They can do this under the present arrangement and still attend the Parliament for the three or four sitting days in the middle of the week. It is obvious that no matter what method is adopted for dealing with the country's business, we cannot satisfy every member of the Parliament. We know that the Parliament has a large organization associated with it. Included in that organization are the printing office. the Clerks of the Parliament, the " Hansard " staff, the Parliamentary Draftsman, and the Treasury officials and other public servants who inform Ministers on various matters in which they are interested. 1 cannot see how we can change the method of conducting the business of the Parliament without increasing the number of public servants required to do all this work. **Senator Wright** referred to the sugar industry, and as I am a Queensland senator I feel that it is necessary for me to have something to say about that industry, lt is a highly organized industry and one that is efficiently conducted throughout, from the point of production of the sugar cane to the refining and marketing of the sugar. If we were to accede to **Senator Wright's** wishes, we would be accepting a scheme which, in attempting to provide a cure for the ills from which the fruit-growing industry is apparently suffering, would smash the sugar industry down into the doldrums. The sugar agreement has been substantially the same since 1915 and the fruitgrowers of Tasmania and the other States have not been disadvantaged by anything contained in that agreement. The sugar industry is not controlled wholly by the Government. Far from it! On the one side there is the Queensland Cane Growers Council representing the farmers who grow the cane and on the other hand there is the Australian Sugar Producers Association which is concerned with the milling of the cane and the marketing of the sugar. Again, on the farming side there has been established a system of assigned areas and farm peaks. On the milling side, mill peaks have been fixed. Under this organization, only that cane which is grown on the assigned area of a farm may be milled. Again, no more cane than has been allotted to the farm under the farm peak scheme will be taken from that farm for milling. The scheme has been in operation for years. On the milling side, the mill peak is established at the beginning of the season. This mill peak determines the tonnage of cane sugar that the mill may produce for the season. When it reaches that tonnage, it ceases crushing. That is why we read sometimes that as much as 70,000 tons of cane is left standing at the end of the season in such comparatively small cane-growing areas as Proserpine. Then the sugar has to be marketed. Marketing is easy on the Australian market, because the home-consumption price isfixed by the Commonwealth Government. It is the responsibility of the Commonwealth Government to fix the homeconsumption price of sugar, but, whereas that price was once fixed by statute, it is now fixed by regulation so that Parliament nolonger has the opportunity to discuss what price should be paid for the sugar consumed in Australia. The overseas price is also a known factor in that it is decided by agreement between, I think, the sugarproducing countries of the British Commonwealth and the United Kingdom. The price as fixed in this way is called the export price. The real test of the efficiency of the organization that has been operating in the sugar industry since the turn of the century is the present financial position of the growers. Applying that test, we find that, by comparison with other primary producers, cane-growers are not in a prosperous position. A cane-grower's income might be sufficient to meet his needs, but certainly he is left with no great surplus. The sugar industry is a big wage-paying industry, but it is gradually becoming mechanized. Automation is also being introduced, and bulk handling of the sugar has been introduced at certain shipping points. The effect of this has been that the labour force that was once necessary to enable the industry to be carried on is diminishing rapidly. As I have said, the real test of the whole scheme is the grower's income and, by comparison, growers are no better off than those engaged in other primary industries. I leave that matter and come to a scrutiny of expenditure by the Parliament, of capital expenditure in particular. The way in which we deal with the Estimates is most unsatisfactory. We go through them at a fast gallop without enough time to consider the amounts being appropriated by Parliament for various purposes. Perhaps we could do more if we were allowed greater time for discussion of the various items contained in the Estimates. That brings me to another matter. It is during this month that the Australian Loan Council will meet for certain purposes. One of those purposes will be to decide the loan requirements of the six States and the Commonwealth. This involves a consideration of how loan funds will be made available and how they will be acquired by the Commonwealth to lend to the States. Everybody appreciates that, for various reasons which are well known to all who have studied the position, the Commonwealth Government is experiencing more and more difficulty in raising its loan requirements. There are so many organizations and companies offering better terms for loan money than the Commonwealth Government is offering (o-day that the people, the small investors in the community in particular, are investing in these smaller organizations which offer anything from 8 per cent, to 10 per cent, for money lent to them. I have no doubt that the six States have already prepared programmes of the works that they would like to begin at an early date. They will come to the meeting and attempt to justify their being granted, not the sum they were granted last year, but a greatly increased amount. One of the reasons they will submit for being granted a greater sum than last year will be increased costs in the community. Nobody can deny that costs have increased because of the ravages of the inflation which has wrecked this country, and this alone should be sufficient justification for granting more to the States. We all know that the State governments have an obligation to construct and equip schools, to construct, equip and staff hospitals, to construct roads, to develop irrigation projects, to construct weirs and to expand the production of electricity throughout their areas. The States are really the pioneers of all great developmental projects in Australia and if we want to see all these projects progressing as we should like them to do, we must admit that the States have ample justification for asking for every penny they require for such purposes. I have mentioned that inflation is just as strong now as ever it has been, although that fact may not be quite so noticeable now. I point out that when this Government attained office in 1949 the basic wage was £6 9s. a week. I refer to the basic wage because, on more than one occasion, **Senator Spooner** has stated in the Senate that one of the best yardsticks to apply in determining the volume of inflation is the basic wage. Whereas the basic wage stood at £6 9s. a week in 1949, it is now £13 4s. a week - an increase of £6 15s. or more than 100 per cent. And the cost of living is still increasing! If the basic wage were fixed at a figure really commensurate with the cost of living, it would be far greater than £13 4s. a week. It will not be long before we are considering the Budget for the year 1960-61. I should like the Government to increase child endowment. The present rate has operated for more than ten years and it is time that it was reviewed and substantially increased. I expect that in the next Budget there will be provision for a substantial increase in the rates of income tax payable by individuals and companies. I wish to refer briefly to the latest decision of the Commonwealth Industrial Commission on an application for an increase in the basic wage. The commission decided not to increase the basic wage on the ground that the economy could not afford it and that if an increase were granted another stratum of inflation would be added to the economy. That nonplussed everybody who was familiar with the procedures adopted for wage fixation in the Commonwealth. A novel feature of the hearing of the unions' claim for an increase and for a restoration of quarterly cost-of-living adjustments was the appearance before the commission of representatives of the Commonwealth and State governments. Just why they were there was never clear to me. I have not had an opportunity of reading the arguments that they placed before the commission, but it did appear to me that they were there to browbeat the commission. It is agreed, I think by everyone, that the commission was constituted in such a way as to give it the greatest independence as a tribunal, and that it would be futile for representatives of the Commonwealth and State governments to go before the commission unless they had substantial cases to place before it. The commission's decision represents a major departure from the broad principles followed by wage-fixing authorities in both Federal and State jurisdictions, since arbitration was first introduced. I want to enlarge upon that. The term " basic wage " or " living wage " is used to describe the amount which, it is considered, the employers have a minimal duty to provide out of the products of industry, and which will afford all employees and their families the means of living according to common human standards of reasonable comfort. The idea of a basic wage originated in a bill entitled the Elementary Property Law of Queensland, introduced by **Sir Samuel** Griffith 70 years ago. Clause 21 of the bill stated - >The natural and proper measure of wages is such n sum as is a fair immediate recompense for the labour for which they are paid, having regard to its character and duration; but it can never be taken at a less sum than such as is sufficient to maintain the labourer and his family in a state of health and reasonable comfort. The founders of the Commonwealth Constitution, by a majority of only three votes, decided that the Commonwealth Parliament should be clothed with the legislative power to prevent and settle industrial disputes extending beyond the limits of any one State. In 1900 an act was passed which conferred this authority, but it was not until 1907 that **Mr. Justice** Higgins decided, in the widely known Harvester case, what a basic wage represented in the currency of that time. He said - >The remuneration could safely have been left to the usual, but unequal, contest, the higgling of the market for labour with the pressure for bread on one side and the pressure for profits on the other. The standard cf fair and reasonable must, therefore, be something else; and I cannot think of any standard appropriate other than the normal needs of the average employee regarded as a human being living in a civilized community. I have invited counsel and all concerned to suggest any other standard, and they have been unable to do so. If, instead of individual bargaining, one can conceive of a collective agreement - an agreement between all the employers in a given trade on the one side, and the employees on the other - it seems to me that the framers of the agreement would have to take, as the first and dominant factor, the cost of living as a civilized being. If A lets B have the use of his horses, on the terms that he gave them fair and reasonable treatment, I have no doubt that it is B's duty to give them proper food and water and such shelter and rest as they need; and as wages are the means of obtaining commodities surely the State in stipulating for fair and reasonable remuneration for the employees, means that the wages shall be sufficient to provide these things, and clothing and conditions of frugal comfort estimated by current human standards. This, then, is the primary test, the test which I shall apply in ascertaining the minimum wage that can be treated as fair and reasonable in Ihe case of unskilled labourers. He then fixed the basic wage of 7s. a day, or £2 2s. a week. The doctrine of **Mr. Justice** Higgins was, in fact, an enlargement of that which was laid down by **Mr. Justice** O'Connor in 1906, when he said - >There must also be added something for the increased cost of living in Australia, not only by reason of the higher cost of some of life's necessities but also by reason of the increased comfort of living and the higher standard of social conditions which the general sense of the community in Australia allows to those who live by labour. Between 1921 and 1953 wage-fixing tribunals were saved from adding to wages allowances for increased cost of living, because of the automatic adjustments made under a statistical system known as the C series all-items index. The history of this scheme dates from the policy speech of the late William Morris Hughes, when he was Prime Minister and head of the United Australian Party or Nationalist Party. It is interesting to recall that at Bendigo in October, 1919, he said - >The cause of much of the industrial unrest, which is like fuel to the fires of Bolshevism and direct action, arises with the real wage of the worker - that is to say, the things he can buy with the money he receives. This real wage decreases with an increase in the cost of living. Now once it is admitted that it is in the interests of the community that such a wage should be paid as will enable a man to marry and bring up children in decent, wholesome conditions - and that point has been settled long ago - it seems obvious that we must devise better machinery for ensuring the payment of such a wage than at present exists. Means must be found which will insure that the minimum wage shall be adjusted automatically with the cost of living, so that within the limits of the minimum wage at least the sovereign . . . The measure to-day is the £1 note - {: type="i" start="1"} 0. . shall always purchase the same amount of the necessaries of life. He fulfilled his promise by introducing the C series all-items index which constantly registered the movement of commodity prices. The present Government caused the system to be suspended in 1953, since when the Industrial Commission has reviewed the basic wage once yearly. {: .speaker-KNU} ##### Senator Hannan: -- The Government did nothing of the kind. {: .speaker-K1T} ##### Senator BENN: -- The Government did, and you know it. This matter has been debated more than once and the honorable senator knows that the Government was responsible for that. What reply would be received if we were to ask the housewives of Australia, " Have the prices of foodstuffs, clothes and services increased between April, 1959, when the previous basic wage was decided, and 12th April of this year, the date of the last decision? " The answer would be that they have substantially increased, yet the Arbitration Commission failed to increase the basic wage for the reason that I mentioned a short while ago. When the basic wage, margins for skill and special allowances are fixed, a charter for the industrial future is designed. Our industrial life may be turbulent in the future. Honorable senators will have read in the press that the firemen in Sydney are on strike, seeking better wages. Even officers associated with the universities are clamouring for more pay. The trouble is not confined to only a few people in the country. There is great dissatisfaction because of the wages being paid throughout Australia at the present time. The cause of that is attributed to the wrong source. The real trouble is the lack of action on the part of this Government to deal effectively with inflation. How futile was it for the Treasurer to appeal hopelessly to people not to engage in inflationary actions! What does he think the people are? Inflation can be cured only by some positive action on the part of the Government, but if the Government lacks the backbone to deal effectively with the problems associated with inflation, it must put up with the consequences. I am not hopeful for the future. I do not think that this Government will take any action about inflation, for the reason that next year is an election year. The cure for the present wave of inflation would be very distasteful to the people and the Government lacks the courage to take the necessary action, not only to cure inflation, but even to curb it. {: #subdebate-41-0-s7 .speaker-KPI} ##### Senator KENDALL:
Queensland -- I shall not detain the Senate for very long. As this is the last opportunity I shall have to do so before the Budget session, I desire to bring two matters to the notice of the Government. A conversation with a friend in the Taxation Branch leads me to believe that my first suggestion is a novel one, but that does not mean that it is not a good one. I refer to the possibility of applying to taxation deductions for medical expenses the type of averaging system that operates in connexion with the incomes of primary producers. In order to show what I have in mind, I shall refer to the experience of a lady friend of mine. During the financial year 1957-58, this lady underwent three major operations, for which she paid £450 of her own money, in addition to what she received from the medical benefits scheme. During the whole of that year, she was unemployed - she had no income. Therefore, the allowable deduction of £150 in respect of medical expenses was of no value to her at all. I suggest that in cases like that, or indeed in any case, an average over three years should be taken, as is done in the case of the incomes of primary producers. In this case, as the amount involved was £450, a deduction of £150 a year over three years would have been allowed. If the medical expenses could have been averaged over three years, it would have meant that this lady would have been able to deduct £150 from her taxable income in the first and third years, when she was actually earning an income. {: .speaker-KAC} ##### Senator Vincent: -- What would she do if she incurred another £450 expenses in the second year, on top of the expenditure of £450 in the first year? {: .speaker-KPI} ##### Senator KENDALL: -- I imagine we would have been making arrangements for a funeral if this lady had had a second year similar to the first one. I cannot give the honorable senator any other answer. It would be most unusual. Indeed, it is most unusual to have three major operations in one year. I do not think the adoption of my suggestion would cost the Government a large amount. I put the suggestion forward for what it is worth, and hope that it will be looked into. The other matter I should like to raise is connected with something that **Senator Marriott** said this morning when he asked a question. It has relation to the rehabilitation of people, other than servicemen, who have been injured. When I have looked through the advertisement pages of newspapers in Queensland, I have seen that many firms require accountants and bookkeepers, yet no endeavour is being made in our rehabilitation centres to hold classes to teach injured people these subjects. A person who has lost a leg may still be mentally bright and could be taught accountancy or bookkeeping. Many firms in the cities, and also people owning station properties in Queensland, find it difficult to obtain bookkeepers. I make this suggestion in the hope that the Minister for Social Services **(Mr. Roberton)** will investigate it and see whether in centres such as that at Kingsholme in Queensland it would be possible to hold classes for injured people who are mentally capable - as is the case in most instances - of learning subjects such as accountancy and bookkeeping. {: #subdebate-41-0-s8 .speaker-L8E} ##### Senator CAMERON:
Victoria · LP .- I propose to deal with the fundamental position, as I understand it. The amount of money provided for in this bill has to be raised by taxation. That is all right as far as it goes, because taxation is the only method by which a government can raise money. What I am concerned about is the incidence of taxation. I contend that all taxation, whether direct or indirect, is paid by labour. Labour constitutes the very foundation of all wealth. Profits are not taxed to the extent that they could and should be taxed. If they were, we should have, as there is in America, a capital gains levy. Everywhere we go in this country we see capital, which is not taxed, accumulating in colossal proportions, with the result, as **Senator Benn** indicated in his speech, that the share of the workers is being systematically and fraudulently reduced. When I say " fraudulently ", I mean that it is being reduced by inflation. **Senator Benn** referred to the basic wage, in terms of currency, in 1907. I say that there has been no increase in real wages, since then, although there has been an increase of 100 per cent, in the inflated value of money, or in money wages which consist of depreciated currency. Consequently, when people speak of an increase in wages or an. increase in costs, they are speaking only half the truth. There has been no real increase in wages or in costs, but there has been an increase in terms of inflated currency. If the basic wage to-day were £14, instead of £13 9s., it still would not have increased in real terms compared with the basic wage of 1907. At that time, the purchasing power of the £1 was worth 20s. in gold. To-day, the purchasing power of the £1 in this country is worth approximately 3s. In terms of currency, we are back to the standards of 1907. There has been no real increase in wages since that time, although there has been an enormous increase in the productivity of labour, all of which has been privately appropriated by the owners of land and capital who comprise, in this age, mainly financial institutions and monopolies. It is no exaggeration to say that, relatively, real wages were never lower than they are to-day and never higher in terms of inflated currency. **Senator Benn** referred to the recent application to the Arbitration Commission by the representatives of trade unions for the restoration of quarterly adjustments of the basic wage and the increase of the margins for skill, an application that was refused at the request of the representative of the Government on the ground of inflation. So far as I have been able to ascertain, the commission did not ask the representative of the Government what he meant by inflation, what he considered to be the causes of inflation, and why he submitted inflation as a reason for refusing the request of the unions. As I have said before in this place, either the commissioners concerned, and also the representative of the Government, are absolutely ignorant of the causes of inflation, or they lack the moral courage to admit the truth. If I were asked, "What do you mean by inflation? " my answer would be, " The issuing of paper money with a nominal value considerably in excess of actual values created ". As I have said before, that is exactly what a counterfeiter does when he issues counterfeit notes. There is a representation of values that do not exist. If a counterfeiter can succeed in obtaining goods and services in return for those notes, he receives goods and services for intrinsically worthless pieces of paper. The only difference between the counterfeiter and the Government, acting in collaboration with the banks and other financial institutions which all are interested in the appropriation of profits created by labour, is that the Government and those institutions act within the law, whereas the counterfeiter acts outside the law. As **Senator Benn** has stated, that kind of thing leads to considerable dissatisfaction in the community. For instance, public servants are becoming concerned about the depreciating purchasing power of their salaries as a result of inflation, and others are concerned in the same way. The overall effect is that an increasing number of men who work for their living are being reduced to what I have previously described as destitute wards of the State. Take, for example, the position in New South Wales. As **Senator Spooner** has said, approximately 8,000 miners have been dismissed from their employment, and the productivity of the remaining miners has increased by 54 per cent. Some of the displaced miners no doubt will receive a pension, while others will have to apply for unemployment benefit, but what is life to them if that is all they have to look forward to? Is it any wonder that dissatisfaction is increasing everywhere? I am amazed at times by the large number of workers who acquiesce in their subjection simply because they do not know any better, and are misled by financial journals, such as the " Financial Review ", the banking journals and the daily press. Their dissatisfaction is the psychological effect of sustained frustration. In 99 per cent, of cases where men or women commit breaches of the law psychologically they are suffering from the effects of sustained frustration. It is true that this Government has granted increases in pensions because of the depreciation of the currency, but those increases have been cancelled out by the increased cost of food, clothing and housing. The thousands of pensioners are living through the winter, shivering in poverty in rooms for which they pay as much as £3 each week out of their pensions. I could quote figures showing that some pensioners are forced to pay an even larger amount. This Government has subjugated, exploited and impoverished thousands of good Australians and dragged them down to the lowest social level. The Government talks about justice and freedom. It uses other fine-sounding phrases to mislead thousands of unfortunate men and women in this country who do not know any better. Their ignorance results from our system of education. As far back as 1870 John Stuart Mill, a noted educationalist said that all State and denominational education has for its purpose the establishment of despotism of the mind, which would lead inevitably to despotism of the body. That is happening to-day, particularly through the mediums of television, radio and the monopoly press. The people have been trained from infancy to accept this situation and because there is no way of informing them, we have turmoil such as the strikes that have taken place in Melbourne and Sydney. **Senator Benn** mentioned the strike of firemen. Widespread dissatisfaction has followed the Government's implementation of its policy. The amount of money . appropriated under this bill is not intended to improve the position of thousands of unfortunate victims of mechanization, inflation and arbitration. The bill no doubt will please those people who are already well off as it will provide them with means of increasing their profits. When **Senator Wright** was speaking I interjected because I am certain that he does not understand the true position. He is qualified as a legal practitioner and I think he understands the law but the fact that a person possesses academic qualifications does not mean that ipso facto he is an authority on all matters. He is not. Outside their special fields such people are just as lacking in knowledge as are the average men and women who support this Government. On one occasion a very famous writer and orator in America said that universities are institutions where people dim diamonds and polish pebbles. In this Parliament we have our diamond dimmers and pebble polishers whom the law regards as intellectual supermen, but outside their special fields they are just as lacking in real knowledge as are the unfortunate persons to whom I referred earlier. **Senator Wright** spoke about fruit and **Senator Benn** spoke about sugar. In Victoria to-day thousands of cases of oranges are being destroyed because they cannot be sold on the market. Men, women and children who need oranges cannot afford to buy them. In Queensland thousands of tons of valuable sugar-cane is being ploughed into the ground at a time when the price of sugar is being increased. Those are the practical effects of the Government's unbalanced economy, based on the provision of a subsistence wage or the dole for unfortunate working men and Women but the right of private appropriation of surplus moneys in the form of profits by monopoly owners of land and capital. What does this Parliament propose to do? What does **Senator Wright** propose to do? He suggests that we should sit here for a fortnight and talk as we have been talking to-day, and then adjourn for a week. He has not attempted to study the causes of poverty amongst the working people and how they should be remedied. 1 am glad that the honorable senator is present in the chamber. He has yet to understand that the law of cause and effect, quite apart from the man-made law, has yet to be understood. If anybody wants the Parliament to function more appropriately or more justly than has been the case, there will have to be a more intelligent understanding of these principles by a majority of its members. Time and time again I have said from various platforms - and it is true - that Parliament operates on the principle of the wheelbarrow; it has always done so. It goes just as far and as fast as it can be pushed by the people. In the absence of pressure from the people, for all practical purposes Parliament is concerned only with maintaining the status quo. The more it attempts to perpetuate the existing order of things the more it suffers from what I call mental stagnation. There is no attempt made to get down to the fundamental causes of the matters to which reference has been made here to-day affecting the social relationships of those who do the work and those who appropriate the profits. There is a conflict of interests. Supporters of the Government may talk as eloquently as they like and quote statistics by the mile. I recall a statement by a well-known author, Mark Twain, who said on one occasion that there are plain liars, there are damn liars and there are statisticians. When one makes a purely mathematical approach to an analysis of these matters, he may lose sight of the geometrical formation of society. In other words, one may lose sight of society as a whole when all these misleading figures are ladled out for his consumption. I sometimes think this is done purposely to confuse people who are not supposed to know any better. However, I derive some comfort in the knowledge that effects cannot be ignored, I remind honorable senators opposite that hundreds of thousands of their fellow men and women are to-day living under semistarvation conditions because these questions are not approached as intelligently as they might be and for the further reason that, to a large degree, the unfortunate victims acquiesce in their own subjection. Evidence of what I have said can be found in the capital cities of Melbourne and Sydney and in other places. As I have said before in this Parliament, it does not give me the slightest satisfaction to point out these things. I would prefer to see the elected representatives of the people inquiring into them intelligently. **Senator Benn** has referred to the view that was expressed by **Mr. Justice** Higgins. 1 point out that His Honour only went as far as giving the workers enough to live on. He never made any reference to the fact that unearned surpluses had accrued, and would continue to accrue, in the form of profits and interest, to the recipients of big incomes. I am wondering how long this state of affairs will prevail. Another factor to which I have directed attention on other occasions is the necessity that has developed for many mothers of young families in the cities to go out to work in order to supplement their husbands' income to enable them to feed their children. This is one of the reasons for the increase of juvenile delinquency. The children are not being treated, either in their homes or in the schools, as they would be if these people were living under reasonably decent conditions. Impressions are being made on the minds of the unfortunate children on account of the behaviour of their parents. **Senator Tangney** has referred to education. There is a difference between education and instruction. For the most part, what to-day is called education is really instruction. From infancy to adolescence, children are indoctrinated with certain ideas which make it possible to bring about the factors to which I have referred. Under the present system of education, both primary and secondary, the children are trained to enable them to become, for example, competent clerks or process workers. If they live long enough to refuse to become too cheap or too contented, they end up in gaol or on the dole. In the past, circumstances saved me from going to gaol for making from the public platform statements similar to those that I have made to-day. Finally, I want to say- {: .speaker-KNR} ##### Senator Hannaford: -- Hear, hear! {: .speaker-L8E} ##### Senator CAMERON: -- I will be brief because the unintelligent must have their medicine in homoeopathic doses. Hearts of oak and heads of reinforced concrete! I support the remarks that were made by **Senator Wright,** to the effect that there should be a more systematic inquiry into the state of affairs to which I have directed attention. If this is not done then, as certain as I am standing here, the conflicting views on this subject will lead to the development of a position worse than was experienced in the 'thirties. I have spoken of the destruction of sugar cane and oranges and I remind honorable senators that in the 1930's mountains of food were destroyed. The figures were given by the International Relief Committee. To-day, if this highly organized industry, the control of which is becoming more and more centralized, is allowed to go on as it has been going, we may have to face a position even worse than that which existed in the 1930's. I have lived through all the great depressions, from as far back as that of 1893, and I can assure the Senate that if my fears are realized we will hear all the excuses and see all the so-called adjustments made by people who are elected to responsible positions and paid to do a far better job in the interests of the people than they are doing to-day. {: #subdebate-41-0-s9 .speaker-KBL} ##### Senator WOOD:
Queensland -- When speaking during a debate on a supply bill some time ago I asked some lengthy questions with relation to the band of radio frequencies allocated to amateur operators. Much has happened in connexion with this matter since that time, and I have a few remarks which I would like to make before the Parliament rises for the winter recess. I would remind the Government that members of both Houses of the Parliament are watching with close attention the move that has been made by the radio section. of the Postmaster-General's Department to impose a new measure of harsh and unwarranted restriction on the activities of radio amateurs in Australia. This is an issue in which the good faith of the Government is under test. Twelve months ago, as a result of widespread protest on behalf of amateurs by members on both sides of both Houses of the Parliament, the Postmaster-General **(Mr. Davidson)** summoned two senior officers of his department to Canberra to confer with members of the Parliament. These two officers came to act as spokesmen for the Minister on a technical subject, on some of the details of which the PostmasterGeneral himself was, understandably, not expert. He gave these two officers his charter to speak for him. In the course of their discussions with members they gave an unambiguous promise that if the proposals they had developed for further restrictions on amateurs were rejected by the International Telecommunications Union at the conference that it was about to convene in Geneva, the Commonwealth would accept the judgment of that conference and would not impose the proposed cuts in Australia. The conference has given its judgment. The most competent technical tribunal in the world has found that the Australian proposals were unnecessary, unjustified and harsh. It has thrown them out summarily. Ordinarily, that would be the end of the matter, but subsequent developments give the strongest grounds for concern. One is the fact that, despite the undertakings given here a year ago, the very two officers who gave those undertakings in Canberra sought to evade them in Geneva, by writing into the treaty there drafted a postscript which would give Australia the right to make the cuts in frequency allocations for amateurs within Australia, even though such cuts had been rejected elsewhere. The writing of that postscript was a brash act of moral repudiation which gravely foreshadows an intention by the departmental officers to attempt to repudiate in fact. The second development is the announcement by the Postmaster-General that an ad hoc committee is to be appointed to consider generally, during the coming parliamentary recess, the use of radio frequencies in Australia. This committee could do a productive job if its members were chosen from persons with an objective outlook, and if the undertaking given to preserve the frequencies at present used by amateurs were made clear to the committee at the outset of its inquiry. I hope the Postmaster-General will do this. Unless the position of amateurs is thus safeguarded at the outset, the committee could be used by the Postal Department as a back-door method of applying the cuts it has promised not to impose. Honorable senators know perfectly well that a committee of inquiry can be selected in advance which will produce exactly the finding that the government, or the government officers, selecting the personnel of that committee want it to produce, particularly if a government department with an axe to grind has a disproportionate influence on the committee's investigations. I hope that the Postmaster-General has not been led by departmental subterfuge into the position of being party to another departmental attack on the rights of radio amateurs in Australia. The fears that this may be so are given weight by two serious recent events. As the report of the Geneva conference shows, the Australian official delegates carried their anti-amateur campaign to unprecendented lengths, even voting with countries in the Communist bloc against liberalizing measures for amateur radio sponsored by Britain, the United States and the other democracies. This fact alone destroys all faith in the department's goodwill towards amateurs and contradicts the claim of the department that such goodwill exists. The second occurrence which eloquently illustrates the real attitude of the department towards amateurs is that which was related by **Senator Hannan,** who told us an amazing story of a departmental attack on a Melbourne amateur who gave an instructional radio demonstration during a children's session on television. In that case the attack by the department has been marked by aggressiveness, evasion and mis-statement which must surely be without parallel. It is now more than a year since the unfortunate victim gave the demonstration complained of, but he has still received no departmental apology for the treatment to which he was subjected. In these circumstances one can have no confidence in the department's claim that it intends to give Australian amateurs a_ fair deal. Our radio amateurs are citizens of very' real worth. We know that during various national crises, such as when disastrous floods have occurred in northern New South Wales and other districts, the radio amateurs have given great assistance. As a resident of north Queensland, I know of the very valuable work they have done when cyclones have ravaged that part of Australia. For this reason alone I believe that every encouragement should be extended to them, and that the Postal Department should not attempt to build a wall of obstruction to bar their progress and development. I wish *to* refer to another matter of importance to Queensland. National development is most important to all parts of Australia. Nothing excites the imagination of the people more than developmental projects. It has been said that as we enter the 1960's we are on the threshhold of a great period of development. I realize, of course, that in some of the more populous States a good deal of development has occurred in secondary industry. In other States the accent is on 'the development of primary industry. In Queensland, primary industries are particularly important. I know that the Queensland Government, which was returned to office at the election last Saturday, has before the Commonwealth Government at present a proposal for the construction of roads from three points in Queensland - Quilpie, Winton and Dajarra - to various railheads. The proposal involves building good hard roads so that in times of drought cattle may readily be taken to the coast and thus saved from starvation. I would remind the Senate that these cattle represent a national asset. It is estimated that during the last four years £8,000,000 worth of cattle were lost because of drought in the south-western part of Queensland, because it was impossible to transport them to the coastal areas. This, I consider, is a national tragedy. Honorable senators will realize that the Australian demand for meat was satisfied. That £8,000,000 worth of stock would have been available for export. Only last week there was held in Canberra a national export convention. One of its objects was to consider ways and means of building up Australia's external credit by expanding exports. And here we have £8,000,000 worth of cattle lost through starvation! The proposal submitted by the State Government to the Commonwealth Government for the expenditure of £3,000,000 over three years, £1,500,000 to be provided by the State and £1,500,000 to be provided by the Commonwealth, for the construction of these roads would be a sound business investment from the Commonwealth Government's point of view. The Commonwealth should not look upon the proposal as a gift of money to the State; it should look upon it as a sound business investment. Had the proposed roads been in existence, - it is probable that the Commonwealth would have been £8,000,000 better off in respect of its overseas credits as a result of the export of the stock to which I have referred. I remind the Senate that, when opening the National Export Convention, the Acting Prime Minister and Minister for Trade **(Mr. McEwen),** said - >Australia needs overseas funds to pay for net essential imports. If Australia were to try and live within her present level of overseas earnings, there would be a drastic slowing down in her rate of development. > >Australia's future growth and the maintenance of her high living standards would require her exports to rise not only by a few millions a year, but in a short space of time by hundreds of millions. And here we have suffered wastage ot assets over the years through having to undergo trials and ordeals visited upon us by the ravages of drought! {: .speaker-KNR} ##### Senator Hannaford: -- I think you arc exaggerating the figure. I do not think it would be £8,000,000. If the cattle were all fat, it might be. {: .speaker-KBL} ##### Senator WOOD: -- I am sorry that I cannot agree with the honorable senator. The official estimate is £8,000,000 and I stand on that figure because it is the official figure. As a Queenslander, I know something about conditions in my State and about figure!*. {: .speaker-KNR} ##### Senator Hannaford: -- You would not know a bull from a billygoat. {: .speaker-KBL} ##### Senator WOOD: -- In discusing this subject I do not need to know a bull from a billygoat. I do know values and I have some appreciation of numbers. I know just how much could have been saved to the Commonwealth if those cattle had not died from starvation. And I emphasize that droughts recur. The construction of the roads would mean that over a period of years/ probably £8,000,000 could be saved to the Commonwealth again and again. And all this for the paltry expenditure of £1,500,000 by the State Government and £1,500,000 by the Commonwealth Government. {: .speaker-KNR} ##### Senator Hannaford: -- I do not oppose your suggestion. {: .speaker-KBL} ##### Senator WOOD: -- I am glad that you are with me, for support from South Australia may mean acceptance of the proposal. It is a sound business proposal from all points of view. For instance, had the stock been saved and sold, extra money would have been returned to the Commonwealth; the owners of the stock, the graziers, would have enjoyed much greater incomes; and this in turn would have meant greater revenue for the Commonwealth by way of taxation levied upon the higher incomes of the graziers. Any increase in export earnings means more money to enable secondary industries to install modern machinery and more income tax to the Commonwealth from the graziers. I plead with the Government to give serious consideration te the proposal and the points I have raised, because 1 am confident that the construction of these roads will be a sound business investment that will return good profit to the Commonwealth. I cannot conclude without referring again to the National Export Convention which was held in Canberra last week. {: .speaker-KAW} ##### Senator Wedgwood: -- We have copies of the report. {: .speaker-KBL} ##### Senator WOOD: -- I am glad to know all honorable senators have copies and I am sure the Associated Chambers of Commerce of Australia will be delighted to know that all have read it. The only comment I want to make is that one of the purposes for which the convention was held was to devise ways and means of earning greater export income for this country. That brings back to mind the Queensland cattle to which I have referred and it also reminds me of the great value that the tourist industry can be to Australia. I do not want to delay the Senate long in dealing with the tourist industry. When I have spoken on this matter previously I have stated that the great drawback to speedy development of the industry has been the standard of hotel accommodation in Australia. We now learn from the press and radio that there has been a big surge in the development of first-class hotels in the capital cities and country areas of Australia. With this great development in first-class hotel accommodation we have an opportunity for improving our overseas earnings. I feel that the National Export Convention might have given more consideration to this aspect. I notice that it did decide that the importance of the tourist industry be taken fully into account, but I am of the opinion that of all the matters discussed at the convention development of the tourist industry would be the quickest way of attracting extra income to Australia. I suggest that it would pay the Commonwealth Government to increase its allocation for boosting Australia's tourist attractions overseas probably by six times what it is now. {: .speaker-K3O} ##### Senator Buttfield: -- You are too modest. {: .speaker-KBL} ##### Senator WOOD: -- I thank the honorable senator. I am confident that an increased allocation of money for this purpose would result in increased earnings from tourist traffic within a very short time and I emphasize that money derived from the tourist traffic is tantamount to importing money and equally as beneficial as earning money from the sale of exports. The industry is developing quickly and the way is open to the Commonwealth Government to take advantage of that. If the words of the Acting Prime Minister are to be believed then I emphasize that we have in the development of the tourist industry an opportunity of fulfilling his desires quickly. I am sorryI have not the time to talk at greater length about this industry. I thought I would express my opinions in the way I have because I am quite sure the Ministers in the Senate, who are an able set of Ministers, will present the case ably to Cabinet. If they do that, I shall be very surprised indeed if we do not get the roads required by Queensland together with a much greater grant for the development of the tourist industry. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a first time. {:#subdebate-41-1} #### Second Reading {: #subdebate-41-1-s0 .speaker-JZY} ##### Senator PALTRIDGE:
Minister for Civil Aviation · Western Australia · LP . -I move - >That the bill be now read a second time. The purpose of this bill and of the associated Appropriation (Works and Services) Bill is to obtain parliamentary authority for certain expenditure for which provision was not made in the 1959-60 Estimates. The various items contained in the schedule can be considered in detail in committee and I propose at this time to refer only to some of the major provisions. Some variation has been made within the total defence appropriation of £192,800,000. with consequential increases and decreases in individual items. Provision has also been made for additional expenditure of £700,000 representing that part of the increased salary and wage payments which cannot be met from the Budget provision. Provision is made for additional expenditure of £5,600,000 on departmental and miscellaneous items. Savings on other items, however, are expected to limit net additional expenditure to about £3,000,000 Of the additional provision, £2,200,000 is attributable to increased payments resulting from the margins judgment; £170,000 is included in respect of the Commonwealth Scholarship Scheme; assisted migration £227,000; re-settlement of Tibetan refugees £100,000; merchant ship construction subsidy £42,000; typhoon and flood relief in Japan, Formosa and South Korea £40,000. An amount of £1,375,000 is sought tor repatriation services. This includes £359,000 in respect of salary and wage increases and £608,000 for medical treatment. An additional provision of £5,000,000 is sought for the Business Undertakings. Increases in salary and wage payments account for £3,000,000 of the amount of £4,183,500 required by the Post Office. The net additional amount required by the Post Office after effecting savings on other items will be £3,500,000. An amount of £237,000 is provided for the Commonwealth Railways, of which £50,000 is due to increased salary and wage payments. However, the net increase in expenditure is not expected to exceed £150,000. An appropriation of £33,000 is sought for the cost of the television inquiry conducted by the Australian Broadcasting Control Board, and £487,000 for the Australian Broadcasting Commission, mainly to cover increased salary and wage payments. The amount sought for the Territories is £660,000. The principal increases are £117.000 in respect of salaries adjustment, and, under Northern Territory, education services and scholarships £40,000 and maintenance of wards at government settlements £117,000. When the Budget was prepared, it was estimated that £37,000,000 would be needed to supplement loan proceeds available for the State works and housing programmes and to finance advances to the States for war service land settlement. Provision was made to appropriate an amount of £37,000,000 from the Consolidated Revenue Fund for payment to the Loan Consolidation and Investment Reserve, whence it could be invested in a special loan. At the same time, it was proposed that £37,000,000 of defence expenditure be financed from the Loan Fund. Because of the very rapid rate of increase in earnings, employment and economic activity generally, the Budget position - and especially the position of the Consolidated Revenue Fund - will be stronger than was estimated when the Budget was prepared, and it is not now expected that the total defence expenditure to be met from the Loan Fund will exceed £16,000,000. An appropriation of £20,000,000 is sought for payment to the Loan Consolidation and Investment Reserve over and above the £37,000,000 provided for in the Budget, as there are still some elements of uncertainty as to the outcome of the financial transactions for the year. I commend the bill to honorable senators. {: #subdebate-41-1-s1 .speaker-KTN} ##### Senator McKENNA:
Leader of the Opposition · Tasmania -- The transactions covered by the bill will be reflected in the Statement of Receipts and Expenditure for the year, which will be before us when we consider the Budget papers in the sessional period beginning in August. We shall then have an opportunity of considering them against a background of the whole year's transactions. I expect that at that time we shall have, too, the report of the AuditorGeneral, and it may well be that we shall have the annual reports of some of the departments and instrumentalities that are affected. We do not oppose this bill. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without requests or debate. {: .page-start } page 1328 {:#debate-42} ### APPROPRIATION (WORKS AND SERVICES) BILL (No. 2) 1959-60 Bill received from the House of Representatives. Standing Orders suspended. Bill (on motion by **Senator Paltridge)** read a first time. {:#subdebate-42-0} #### Second Reading {: #subdebate-42-0-s0 .speaker-JZY} ##### Senator PALTRIDGE:
Minister for Civil Aviation · Western Australia · LP -- I move - >That the bill be now read a second time. The purpose of this bill is to obtain parliamentary authority for expenditure on items of Capital Works and Services for which provision was not made in the 1959-60 Estimates. The various items contained in the schedule can be considered in detail in committee and I propose at this time to refer only to the major provisions. An amount of £2,650,000 is sought for additional expenditure under the Snowy Mountains Hydro-electric Power Act. This additional provision is required to enable the Snowy Mountains Authority to make increased payments to contractors who are constructing major works projects. The rate of progress on these contracts this year has been quite remarkable and has far exceeded the expectations on which the original Budget provision of £25,600,000 was based. It is expected that the additional expenditure on the Snowy Mountains scheme will be offset to a substantial extent by net savings on other Commonwealth works expenditure this year. Partly as a result of the increased expenditure on the Snowy Mountains scheme this year, there will be a big drop in expenditure on the scheme in 1960-61. The expenditure in that year will be held to something below £20,000,000. Provision of £700,000 sought for the Post Office is wholly due to increases in salary and wage payments. An amount of £475,000 is sought for acquisition of land for development of the Tullamarine airport. An additional provision of £238,000 is sought for advances to the Papua and New Guinea Administration for loans to ex-servicemen in agricultural enterprises. Late in 1958 a credit scheme for ex-servicemen settlers was commenced and expenditure of £62,000 incurred in 1958-59. The amount of £400,000 provided in the 1959-60 Estimates has proved insufficient to meet the increased rate of applications being received now that the scheme is in full operation and it is expected that a total of £638,000 will be required during this year. Under the Prime Minister's Department, £22,620 is sought mainly for the purchase of a suitable residence for the Deputy High Commissioner in London on the expiration of the lease of the present residence. Provision of £57,000 is made under the Department of External Affairs for purchase of vehicles, equipment and furniture at new posts and for the purchase of a residence in South Africa for the Australian High Commissioner. An amount of £43,370 is sought by the Department of the Interior for the purchase of homes vacated by officers transferred from Melbourne to Canberra in the movement of the Defence Departments. Under the Department of Health, £108,640 is sought for the acquisition of a property at Woodend, Victoria, for use by the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories. Provision is made under the Department of National Development for the purchase of plant and equipment for the additional oil search programme at a cost of £65,000. An amount of £43,500 is also required for the movement of the Dorset tin dredge from the Dorset Flats area to the Dorset Extended area and for the replacement of a bucket ladder. A net provision of £105,000 is sought by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization for payments for a giant radio telescope, the contract for which will now be completed earlier than expected. Under the Commonwealth Railways an additional working advance of £150,000 is required for purchase of essential stocks needed urgently so that railway activities will not be delayed or restricted through lack of materials. An amount of £120,000 is provided under the Northern Territory to meet loans required by applicants under the housing loans ordinance. New applications are particularly heavy and to provide the necessary funds pending borrowings from approved lending authorities, an additional £120,000 will be required from Consolidated Revenue. Under the Australian Capital Territory, provision of £100,000 is made for loans to co-operative building societies recently formed in the Territory. In line with advances made to the States under the Commonwealth-State Housing Agreement, it is proposed to make similar advances to co-operative building societies in the Australian Capital Territory. I commend the bill to honorable senators. {: #subdebate-42-0-s1 .speaker-KTN} ##### Senator McKENNA:
Leader of the Opposition · Tasmania -- The remarks that I made on the motion for the second reading of the immediately preceding bill apply equally to this measure. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate. {: .page-start } page 1329 {:#debate-43} ### SUPPLY BILL 1960-61 Bill received from the House of Representatives. Standing Orders suspended. Bill (on motion by **Senator Paltridge)** read a first time. {:#subdebate-43-0} #### Second Reading {: #subdebate-43-0-s0 .speaker-JZY} ##### Senator PALTRIDGE:
Minister for Civil Aviation · Western Australia · LP -- I move - . That the bill be now read a- second time. The purpose of this bill is to appropriate £266,856,000 to carry on the necessary normal services of government, other than capital works and services, during the first, five months of the financial year 1960-61. These are services placed before the Parliament in the Appropriation Acts 1959- 1960. The several amounts provided for ordinary services are - They represent, with minor exceptions, approximately five-twelfths of the 1959- 1960 appropriations. In the case of salaries votes additional amounts have been included to cover the cost during the supply period of marginal increases which were granted in December, 1959. The amount of £85,841,000 for Defence Services provides for expenditure on the current defence programme and the amount of £37,947,000 for War and Repatriation Services provides for expenditure on war pensions and repatriation and rehabilitation services. Except in relation to defence, no amounts are included for new services. However, an amount of £16,000,000 is sought for an " Advance to the Treasurer ", to make advances which will be recovered within the financial year and to make moneys available to meet expenditure, particulars of which will afterwards be submited to the Parliament. {: #subdebate-43-0-s1 .speaker-KTN} ##### Senator McKENNA:
Leader of the Opposition · Tasmania -- This is the usual bill to grant supply for five months. It involves a considerable amount - £266,000,000 - which, for five months, is probably something less than one-half of the total amount required to carry on the activities of the Commonwealth, apart from the amount required for capital works and services. The balance, as the Senate recognizes, is already the subject of several statutory appropriations, and will be available to the Government in any event. It has been the practice for some time now to grant supply at this time of the year for a period of five months, which means that the Government does not need to rush the consideration of the Budget, or of the proposals associated with it. Only in one matter is there need for some haste, and that is in the granting of relief to the recipients of social service benefits. 1 leave the thought with the Government that the Opposition will be prepared to co-operate if anything is te be done for social service beneficiaries, lt will be willing to co-operate either by taking the matter leisurely, agreeing that the benefits should be paid retrospectively, or by giving the legislation priority and ensuring a speedy passage through the Parliament. The Opposition sees no reason to object to the passage of this measure. It is quite essential for the conduct of the affairs of the country. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without requests or debate. {: .page-start } page 1330 {:#debate-44} ### SUPPLY (WORKS AND SERVICES) BILL 1960-61 Bill received from the House of Representatives. Standing Orders suspended. Bill (on motion by **Senator Paltridge)** read a first time. {:#subdebate-44-0} #### Second Reading {: #subdebate-44-0-s0 .speaker-JZY} ##### Senator PALTRIDGE:
Minister for Civil Aviation · Western Australia · LP -- I move - >That the bill be now read a second time. The purpose of this bill is to appropriate £54,287,000 to carry on the necessary normal capital works and services of government for the first five months of the financial year 1960-61. This will enable Commonwealth works to be continued until the 1960-61 Budget has been considered by Parliament. The bill will provide funds for Commonwealth works in progress at 30th June. 1960. In addition, it is the practice to programme the capital works and services in the major Commonwealth departments, including the Department of Works, the Postmaster-General's Department and the Department of Civil Aviation. The appropriation will provide funds to ensure the orderly continuation of those program mes of work. {: #subdebate-44-0-s1 .speaker-KTN} ##### Senator McKENNA:
Leader of the Opposition · Tasmania -- I merely wish to apply to this measure the remarks that 1 used in respect of the bill with which the Senate has just dealt. The measure before the chamberseeks to provide supply for five months, for the purpose of carrying on the capital works and services of the Commonwealth. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate. {: .page-start } page 1331 {:#debate-45} ### NURSES' HOME AND TRAINING SCHOOL AT CANBERRA COMMUNITY HOSPITAL {:#subdebate-45-0} #### Report of Public Works Committee {: #subdebate-45-0-s0 .speaker-JYA} ##### Senator O'BYRNE: -- I present the report of the Public Works Committee on the following subject: - Construction of a new nurses' home and training school at the Canberra Community Hospital, Australian Capital Territory. Ordered to be printed. {: .page-start } page 1331 {:#debate-46} ### AIRPORTS (SURFACE TRAFFIC) BILL 1960 Bill returned from the House of Representatives with amendments. In committee (Consideration of House of Representatives' amendments): Clause 6 - (1.) The Director-General may determine and, by means of signs or notices prominently displayed, with or without reference to lines or marks, indicate or notify - (5.) Where the sign or notice indicating a parking area or parking positions has inscribed upon it the words " Meter Parking ", or otherwise indicates or directs that the parking fee is to be paid by means of a meter, a person who parks a vehicle or causes a vehicle to stand in such an area or position shall pay the parking fee by inserting the necessary coins in the meter nearest to the vehicle or, in the case of a parking area entry to which is controlled by meter-operated gates, in the meter operating those gates. House of Representatives' amendment No. 1- In sub-clause (5.), after "entry to" insert "or exit from ". {: #debate-46-s0 .speaker-JZY} ##### Senator PALTRIDGE:
Minister for Civil Aviation · Western Australia · LP .. -I move - That House of Representatives' amendment No. 1 be agreed to. The bill at present contemplates that parking fees will be paid by a person on entering a parking area which is controlled by a meter-operated gate. It is proposed to amend clause 6 so that, in appropriate circumstances, the fee can be paid at the exit gate. House of Representatives' amendment agreed to. Clause 8 - (1.) A person shall not - {: type="a" start="a"} 0. park a vehicle, or cause a vehicle to stand, in contravention of the terms of a sign or notice displayed in pursuance of section six of this Act; (2.) Where a person leaves a vehicle parked or keeps a vehicle standing in a parking area or parking position referredto in sub-section (5.) of section six of this Act (other than an area entry to which is controlled by meter-operated gates) at a time when the parking meter nearest to the vehicle is displaying the indicator bearing the word " Expired ", that person shall, unless the contrary is proved, be deemed to have failed to pay the parking fee. House of Representatives' amendment No. 2- In sub-clause (2.), after " entry to ", insert " or exit from ". House of Representatives' amendment No. 3- At the end of the clause, add the following subclause: - " (3.) In the case of a vehicle that is parked or kept standing in a parking area exit from which is controlled by meter-operated gates, a person shall be deemed not to have committed an offence under paragraph (b) of sub-section (1.) of this section if he has paid the parking fee before removing the vehicle from the area. ". Clause 13 - (1.) Where an authorized person has reason to believe that a parking infringement has been committed in respect of a vehicle, he may serve or cause to be served a parking infringement notice in accordance with this section. (2.) A parking infringement notice may be served - {: type="a" start="a"} 0. by serving the notice personally upon the person who appears to have committed the infringement or upon any person who is driving, or appears to be in control of, the vehicle; 1. by affixing the notice to the vehicle: or 2. by serving the notice upon the owner of the vehicle personally or by post. House of Representatives' amendment No. 4 - >In sub-clause (2.), omit paragraph (b), insert the following paragraph: - *" (b)* by securely affixing the notice to the vehicle in a conspicuous position; or". Motion (by **Senator Paltridge)** proposed - >That House of Representatives' amendments Nos. 2 to 4 be agreed to. {: #debate-46-s1 .speaker-KTN} ##### Senator McKENNA:
Leader of the Opposition · Tasmania -- I indicate that the Opposition has considered the amendments and has no objection to them. House of Representatives' amendments agreed to. Resolution reported; report adopted. {: .page-start } page 1332 {:#debate-47} ### BROADCASTING AND TELEVISION BILL 1960 Message received from the House of Representatives intimating that it had agreed to the amendments made by the Senate in this bill. {: .page-start } page 1332 {:#debate-48} ### LEAVE OF ABSENCE TO ALL SENATORS Motion (by **Senator Spooner)** - by leave - agreed to - >That leave of absence be granted to every member of the Senate from the termination of the sitting this day to the day on which the Senate next meets. {: .page-start } page 1332 {:#debate-49} ### SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT Motion (by **Senator Spooner)** agreed to - >That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn till a day and hour to be fixed by the President, which time of meeting shall be notified to each senator by telegram or letter. {: .page-start } page 1332 {:#debate-50} ### ADJOURNMENT {:#subdebate-50-0} #### Valedictory {: #subdebate-50-0-s0 .speaker-K7A} ##### Senator SPOONER:
New South WalesVicePresident of the Executive Council and Minister for National Development · LP -- I move - >That the Senate do now adjourn. Despite the fact that we may all feel a little ragged after our recent late sittings, 1 should like to make a few comments. First, **Mr. Deputy President,** I extend to you congratulations and felicitations on your occupancy of the chair during the absence of the President. We have long held you in high esteem, in your capacity of Chair man of Committees. It is a good thing that we have in the team a first reserve who has long Parliamentary experience and is able to fill the post of the President when he cannot be present. We are glad to serve under your chairmanship. I should like to say " thank you " to my ministerial colleagues and those who sit behind me on this side of the Senate for their cheery and useful co-operation during this sessional period of the Parliament. 1 want to repudiate the suggestion that ha» been made that before going overseas I have had to obtain a pair with **Senator Wright.** That is an overstatement of the situation. I take great satisfaction from the thought that we on the Government side of the Senate have built up a very happy team. In expressing that thought, it would be very wrong indeed if I did not pay tribute to our Whip, **Senator Dame** Annabelle Rankin, who has done so much to make us an effective team. It has been said that you should never praise your political enemies lest that praise be held against you at some future time. That is the kind of appropriate sentiment that Job expressed so well when he said, " Oh . . . that mine adversary had written a book ". At this time, at the end of a sessional period that has lasted for three months, I risk my political future by saying to the Leader of the Opposition, " Thank you very much indeed for the way in which you have worked with me in the conduct of the business of the Senate ". We have learned to work together. We have learned to trust each other, and although we may have divergent views from time to time, it is necessary that there be mutual confidence between us in the interests of both sides, so that the business of the Senate may run smoothly and easily. I thank you, **Senator McKenna,** for your co-operation, and while we work together well, I hope that you will always stop short of winning a division against us, otherwise you would be testing our friendship too far. {: .speaker-K4S} ##### Senator Sandford: -- What about thanking all of us? {: .speaker-K7A} ##### Senator SPOONER: -- I intended to do that. I think we are entitled to take satisfaction in the thought that this has been a heavy sessional period of the Senate - at least in its closing days. We have added to the work and tasks of the Senate by engaging in occasional debates on matters that are not strictly related to legislation before us. In doing so I think we have gained in prestige and standing as a House of the Parliament. {: .speaker-K1T} ##### Senator Benn: -- And in knowledge. {: .speaker-K7A} ##### Senator SPOONER: -- Yes, in knowledge and understanding. I am sorry that in the way the programme of events in the Senate turned out we were not able to give to the report of the River Murray Commission the attention that I should like us to have given it. I believe that a discussion of the report would have been a fruitful exercise for all of us. Contributions to our knowledge and understanding came from both sides of the Senate and I hope that we may go on to further endeavours in that direction in the future. I thank the Clerks at the table for their assistance. If I were to acknowledge the extent to which I depend on the Clerks for assistance, in a plebiscite I would lose my position as Leader of the Government in the Senate, and I would not like to see that happen. I am very indebted to the Clerks for the way in which they take us by the hand and lead us through the intricacies of parliamentary procedure. I extend thanks also to our friends from " Hansard ", who have an uphill task in coping with speakers like **Senator Wood,** who I think is probably one of the fastest speakers in the Senate. As an old shorthand writer myself I notice those senators who are fast speakers and those who speak slowly. I thank the attendants and the other members of the staff of the Senate, all of whom have worked well to make this sessional period a successful one. {: #subdebate-50-0-s1 .speaker-KTN} ##### Senator McKENNA:
Leader of the Opposition · Tasmania -- I welcome the opportunity to say a few words at this stage. I join with the Leader of the Government **(Senator Spooner)** in congratulating you, **Mr. Deputy President,** upon your conduct of our proceedings during the past few weeks. The Senate has been completely happy under your presidency. You have given away the characteristic that you used sometimes to display in the Senate of being a bit fast on the trigger. During these sittings you have been most relaxed in the chair. I cannot recall a period in the Senate, orderly as it normally is, when the occupant of the Chair has had to intervene in the proceedings on so few occasions. The period under your presidency has been a very happy one. I noted what the Leader of the Government said about the happy band behind him. There were one or two occasions during the last week or two, particularly last night, when my eyes appeared to deceive me, for at least some Government supporters were presenting what seemed to be thoroughly false fronts. I hope that the Leader of the Government will appropriately take them to task and ask them to preserve that happy demeanour of which he spoke under all occasions. I echo the remarks of **Senator Spooner** about the Clerk of the Senate and his officers and staff. They are indispensable. They have earned the eternal gratitude of every member of the Opposition. I thank the Leader of the Government for what he said about me. It is purely common sense that the two leaders should at least know where they are going, even if they arc to be involved in a head-on collision. If we do not know where we are going, those who sit behind us cannot know. Despite differences that are inevitable, this sessional period has seen a great deal of co-operation and understanding in this Senate. I thank the Leader of the Government very sincerely for the co-operation that he has extended to me and the courtesies that he has shown me. If nothing else had happened at this period of the sitting I had intended to take the opportunity to direct attention to the fact that the Leader of the Government will shortly be going overseas for the first time in almost eleven years. Although he has had a few false starts in that direction, I express the hope that he will get away this time. My friends in the Opposition join with me in wishing him bon voyage, very good health and a happy time abroad. We wish him success in the efforts that he will be making on behalf of Australia while he is away. " Hansard ", of course, is completely indispensable. I trouble the members of the staff only by talking too much. 1 never look at copies of my speeches. They do not even send them to me. They themselves must suffer my speeches and the Senate must suffer my words. The fact that the Senate tolerates me as well as it does is something that I appreciate. Although we look forward to a recess after a long period in which our conflicting thoughts have run together on the various matters that came before us, my colleagues and I on this side of the chamber look forward with pleasure to a resumption of the contest in about the middle of August, in accordance with what I understand to be the proposed arrangement. I expect that the Budget session will be both eventful and fruitful. In the meantime we are to have a by-election. We may have a preliminary trial of strength there. Last, but not least, I thank the Opposition Whip and my officers and supporters who have been understanding and cooperation itself throughout the whole of the sessional period. I wish them a very happy recess and I hope they will come back here in the middle of August with their axes sharpened. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT.- Before I put the question I should like to say that I appreciate what has been said by the Leader of the Government and the Leader of the Opposition about the way in which J have carried out my duties as the tem porary occupant of the chair. It is not easy for an honorable senator to take complete charge of the Senate as I have had to do. Although my task has not been easy, it has been lightened by the co-operation that I have received from all honorable senators. I thank the two leaders for their kind remarks. I have endeavoured to preside over the Senate in what I felt to be the right and proper way. I thank all honorable senators for their co-operation, without which my task would have been anything but easy. Both the Leader of the Government in the Senate **(Senator Spooner)** and the Leader of the Opposition **(Senator McKenna)** have said that they depend quite a lot on the Clerks. I want to thank the Clerks for the assistance they have given to me, because I assure honorable senators that occupying this chair would not be *a* very easy task unless one had the greatest confidence in the Clerks at the table. I am sure that every honorable senator has confidence in them and that, with their advice, the conduct of our proceedings will always be maintained at the highest level. I thank those who have made kind remarks about myself. I look forward to the time when the President returns and I will be quite happy to step down and assist him as his deputy. Question resolved in the affirmative. Senate adjourned at 5.6 p.m. till a day and hour to be fixed by the President.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 2 June 1960, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1960/19600602_senate_23_s17/>.