Senate
12 September 1929

11th Parliament · 1st Session



The President (Senator the Hon. W. Kingsmill) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 868

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Arbitration (Public Service) Act - Determination by the Arbitrator - No, 19 of 1929 - Association of Draughtsmen, Public Service.

Public Service Act - Appointment - Department of Works - L. R, Weidner.

Defence Act - (Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1929, No. 93.

Northern Australia Act- Ordinances of 1929-

Central Australia -

No. 13 - Gaming.

No. 14 - Justices.

North Australia -

No. 16 - Gaming.

No. 16 - Darwin Radio Telegraph Station.

No. 17- Justices.

Lands Acquisition’ Act - Land acquired at

Forrest, Western Australia; - For Defence purposes.

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PUBLICWORKS COMMITTEE

BotanicalLaboratories,canberra.

Senator REID presented the report of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, together with minutes of evidence, relating to the Proposed Erection . of Botanical Laboratories at Canberra.

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QUESTION

EVAPORATED APPLES

Senator PAYNE:
TASMANIA

– Is the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs yet in a position to make a definite statement as to what conclusion, if any, has been arrived at in regard to the request for a bounty on evaporated apples?

Senator McLACHLAN:
Honorary Minister · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– I am not in a position to make such a statement.

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QUESTION

DISSOLUTION

Senator DUNN:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Leader of the Government in the Senate take honorable senators into his confidence and let them know the exact date of the proposed general election?

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:

– At this juncture I am not in- a position to answer the honorable senator’s question, but, with the leave of the Senate, I propose to make a statement which may throw some light, on the subject.(Leave granted.)

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · Western Australia · NAT

[3.8]. - In view of a vote adverse to the Government having been carried in another place, the Prime Minister waited upon His Excellency the Governor-General and presented the following letter: -

Canberra, 11th September, 1929.

Sir-

I beg to inform you that the second reading of a measure constituting an important part of the policy of the Government, the Maritime Industries Bill, was carried on Saturday last in the House of Representatives by a majority of four votes. Yesterday thebill, on my motion, was declared an urgent measure, also by a majority of four Votes.

In committee, an amendment was. carried by a’ majority of one . vote declaring that the bill should not be brought into operation until it had been submitted to the people at a referendum or at a general election.

The Constitution makes no provision for a referendum of. this description,’ and the. Commonwealth Parliament has no- power’ to pass effective legislation for the holding of such a referendum.

The Government is, however, prepared to accept the other alternative - namely, a general election.

I, therefore, formally advise Your Excellency to grant a dissolution of the House of Representatives, and I now inform you that I propose to ask Parliament for the necessary financial provision to carry on the public services until after the election has been held.

Yours faithfully, (Sgd.) S. M. Bruce,

Prime Minister.

His Excellency the Governor-General.

To this His Excellency the GovernorGeneral has, to-day made the following reply: -

Canberra, 12th September, 1929.

Sir-

I am in receipt of your letter of yesterday and have carefully consideredthe question which it raises.

I note that you propose to ask Parliament for Supply to carry on the public services of the Commonwealth until after a general election has been held, and. in view of this assurance I accept the advice tendered by you.

Yours faithfully, (Sgd.) Stonehaven,

Governor-General.

The Right Hon. S. M. Bruce, C.H., M.C, M.P., Prime Minister’.

As a consequence of the reply given by His Excellency the Governor-General to the request made by the Prime Minister, the Government has submitted measures in another place for Supply and for appropriations from the Consolidated Revenue for the payment of invalid and old-age and war pensions; also bills to validate, for three months, the customs and excise tariff schedules recently laid on the table in another place. It is anticipated that all these bills will be passed by another place in the course of the afternoon, and will come to the Senate for consideration, and when they are disposed of it is proposed to adjourn both Houses, which adjournment will be followed by a prorogation and dissolution of another place.

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QUESTION

SOUTH AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

Senator SAMPSON:
TASMANIA

asked the Leader of the Government in the Senate, upon notice -

  1. Is the Minister aware whether it is alleged that the Government of the State of South Australia has announced that in entering into contracts it will give a 5 per cent, preference to South Australian cement manufacturers ?
  2. If not, willhe inquire into the matter?
  3. Would not such a preference be contrary to the provisions of the Constitution, as a discrimination between States and an interference with interstate trade and commerce?
  4. Is it not a fact that cement manufacturers in Tasmania are taxed for the purpose of contributing towards the wine bonus granted to aid South Australian wine-growers?
  5. In fairness to these citizens of Tasmania, will the Government introduce legislation to prevent such unfair discrimination from sheltering inefficient enterprises in other States which cannot compete on fair terms?

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.The answers to the honorable senator’s questions are as follow : -

  1. I am unable to say whether the facts are as stated.
  2. I will give consideration to the question.
  3. This involves a question of law, and it is not the practice to express legal opinions in reply to questions.
  4. The manufacturers referred to are not being taxed, specifically, for the purpose mentioned by the honorable senator, but, to the extent that they are paying taxes prescribed by federal laws, they are, in common with other federal taxpayers, contributing to the revenue from which bounties are payable.
  5. See answer to No. 2.

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QUESTION

GEODETIC AND TOPOGRAPHICAL SURVEY

Senator JOHNSTON:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs, upon notice -

  1. Is not the Government aware that Australia is one of the few countries of tha world that is without a national topographical map system?
  2. In view of the value of such maps for defence, scientific, and developmental purposes, will steps be taken towards the commencement of a geodetic and topograhical survey of Australia?
Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW:

– The Minister for Home Affairs has supplied the following answers to the honorable senator’s questions: -

  1. The Government is fully aware of the position, and has during the past few years been obtaining data and reports concerning such a survey.
  2. The question of a geodetic survey of Australia was considered at a conference of surveyors-general of the respective States with the Director of Lands and Surveys of the Common wealth in May, 1912. The conference decided that a geodetic survey of Australia should bc undertaken, but due to the war and the subsequent financial . position, the matter was deferred for the time being. It was agreed at the conference of Commonwealth and State Ministers, held at Canberra on 28th-30th May, 1929, to arrange a conference of SurveyorsGeneral of the States, together with Commonwealth representatives, to endeavour to arrive ut an agreement with regard to the preparation of accurate survey maps of the Commonwealth and the methods to be adopted in the geodetic and topographical surveys necessary to achieve this end. It is understood that arrangements will be made to convene such a conference at an early date.

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QUESTION

NAVIGATION ACT

Senator JOHNSTON:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. Has the Tariff Board completed its investigations into the operation of the coastal clauses of the Navigation Act?
  2. When is it anticipated that the Tariff Board’s report on this subject will be available to members of the Senate?
Senator McLACHLAN:
NAT

– The Minister for Trade and Customs has supplied the following answers to the honorable senator’s questions: -

  1. Yes.
  2. No date can yet be fixed as the report in question has not been received.

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COMMONWEALTH HOUSING SCHEME.

Queensland’s Attitude

SenatorFOLL asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice -

Has the present State Government of Queensland notified the Commonwealth Government of its intention to take advantage of the Commonwealth housing scheme, which was refused by the previous administration?

No such notification has been received, but a letter has been forwarded to the present State Government, asking it to consider the matter.

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SUSPENSION OF SITTING

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.I understand that a Supply Bill has already passed through another place, but it has not yet reached us. As honorable senators are no doubt anxious to get away as soon as possible, and they also sympathize with the desire of honorable members of another place to get away, I think it would meet the convenience of every one if the President suspended the sitting until he gives instructions for the ringing of the bells.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon W Kingsmill:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– In compliance with the request of the Leader of the Senate, I shall leave the chair until such time as I am advised that the bills whose arrival is anticipated are ready for the consideration of the Senate.

Sitting suspended from 3.8 to3.38 p.m.

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SUPPLY BILL (No. 2) 1929-30

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and sessional orders suspended, and bill (on motion by SenatorSir George Pearce) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; NAT from 1917; UAP from 1931

[3.40]. - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

As the available appropriation under Supply Bill (No. 1) of 1929-30 is almost exhausted it is necessary to make a further appropriation of revenue to carry on the services of the Commonwealth pending the passing of the Estimates, and, in this case, to meet the cost of a general election. The amount which the Senate is now asked to appropriate is £6,578,090 which will meet requirements for the months of September, October and November. This sum includes the following services, details of which are set out in the schedule to the bill -

The items making up these sums are based approximately on last year’s appropriation, or the current year’s Estimates, whichever is the lower. Provision is also made to cover the pay day which falls on the 13th December. No new proposals are included. In addition, provision is made for “Refunds of Revenue,” £100,000, and “Advance to the Treasurer,” £1,500,000. The amount set down for “ Advance to the Treasurer,” is required mainly to enable loan works and services in progress to be continued until a loan bill has been passed by Parliament. . The average monthly expenditure on these services is about £450,000. It is also necessary to make provision out of the Treasurer’s advance to carry on works and services in respect to “Additions, New Works and Buildings - Payable from Revenue,” until parliamentary appropriation is available, and to meet miscellaneous and unforeseen contingencies incidental to the services of the Commonwealth. I repeat that honorable senators are not being asked to commit themselves to any new expenditure, as the figures are based on existing expenditure or on the estimates already submitted to Parliament whichever is the lower.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee.

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.

Schedule,

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

– I ask the Minister for Defence (Senator Sir William Glasgow) if the amount of £1,164,360 provided for the Department of Defence, is based on the normal annual expenditure of the department? The amount provided represents practically one half of the department’s annual vote and suggests that its expenditure is heavier during the first three months of the year than for any of the remaining quarters ?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW:
Minister of Defence · Queensland · NAT

[3.45], - This is a provision for three months, based either on last year’s expenditure, or the Estimates for this year, whichever is- the lower. During the first three months of the year a little extra money is required for training.

Schedule agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reported without request; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

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INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS APPROPRIATION BILL

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and sessional orders suspended, and bill (on motion by Senator Sir George Pearce) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · Western Australia · NAT

[3.50]. - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this bill is to provide from the consolidated revenue fund the sum of £10,000,000 for the payment of invalid and old-age pensions. Prom time to time Parliament has made appropriations of a similar amount, and transfers are made under the authority of the relative Appropriation Acts to the Trust Account from which payments are made to pensioners. The total amount previously appropriated for this purpose was £101,250,000, of which £98,296,126 had been expended up to 30th June last, leaving a balance on that date of £2,953,874. As the balance is sufficient to meet payments only until the last pay-day in September a further appropriation is now required to provide for payments from October onward. The sum which the Senate is now asked to appropriate will meet the requirements for approximately twelve months. I add that the measure has nothing whatever to do with the rate of pensions or the conditions under which they are payable.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

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WAR PENSIONS APPROPRIATION BILL

Bill received from the Hou3e of Representatives.

Standing and sessional orders suspended and bill (on motion by Senator Sir George Pearce) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · Western Australia · NAT

[3.53]. - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The circumstances surrounding the introduction of this bill are exactly similar to those associated with the Invalid and Old-age Pensions Appropriation Bill with which the Senate has just dealt. Its purpose is to provide the sum of £10,000,000 from the Consolidated Revenue Fund for the payment of war pensions. Parliament has, from time to time, made appropriations of a similar amount, and transfers have been made under the authority of the relative Appropriations Acts to the Trust Account from which payments are made to pensioners. The total amount previously appropriated for this purpose was £75,622,632 of which £72,116,683 had been expended up to the 30th June last, the balance on that date being £3,505,949. That balance is sufficient to meet war pension payments up to the middle of November next. A further appropriation is therefore required to provide for payments from November onward. The appropriation which the Senate is now asked to make will meet requirements until approximately December, 1930. I point out that this measure has nothing whatever to do with the rate of pensions or the conditions under which they are payable.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

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CUSTOMS TARIFF VALIDATION BILL

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and sessional orders- suspended, and bill (on motion by Senator McLachlan) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McLACHLAN:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

, - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This is really a tentative measure, and I would like honorable senators to understand that it binds . no one to the tariff schedule that has been placed on the table of the House of Representatives. Its introduction is due to the peculiar circumstances that have arisen in another place during the past few days. It is merely a validating measure which continues in force the schedule which would have remained in force had Parliament continued to sit. No injustice can be done to any one in the event of the tariff schedule being ultimately rejected by Parliament, as, following the policy that has been observed in the past, refunds will be made to those who have been subjected to increased tariff duties in the interim.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without request or debate.

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EXCISE TARIFF VALIDATION BILL

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and sessional orders suspended, and bill (on motion by Senator McLachlan) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McLACHLAN:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The observations that I applied to the Customs Tariff Validation Bill, -which has just been passed, also apply in exactly the same manner to this bill. It is what may be termed a “ without prejudice “ measure.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill, read a second time.

In committee:

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 (Definition).

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

– The clause reads -

In this act “ Tariff proposals “ means the proposed duties of excise introduced into the House of Representatives on the twenty-second day of August, One thousand nine hundred and twenty-nine.

Beyond those bare words, honorable senators have no information on this matter. These duties may or may not be very important. Although the House of Representatives has had every opportunity to know what the duties are, the Senate appears to be delightfully in the dark. It is one of those “ little big “ things that need attention. Honorable senators are simply asked, in the baldest of language, to vote for the imposition of a set of duties which have been mentioned in another place, and about which they know nothing. This chamber should be placed on precisely the same level as another place. We. should be enlightened on the subject, instead of being asked to vote upon something about which we are in the dark. I am sure that it is merely an oversight on the part of the Minister in charge of the bill; but it is certainly not very pleasant to find honorable senators in such an invidious position.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

– As the honorable senator understands, the excise schedule has, under the Constitution, to be placed on the table in another place. The position to which he . has referred arises, no doubt, from the expedition which has to be exercised in the peculiar circumstances which exist. I point out that this is really a “without prejudice “ measure. Actually, the tariff proposals to which it relates have not yet been discussed in the House of Representatives, and we did not contemplate a discussion in the Senate at this stage. A discussion will take place on the

Excise Tariff Bill itself, which will be duly presented to’ the Senate. The ‘ procedure as I understand it, from the constitutional stand-point is this: When the schedule was laid on the table in another place, it came into operation immediately, but is subject to the will of that chamber. When it is finally passed, it will come up for consideration and discussion in the Senate, in the form of a bill. As I explained a few moments ago, this is a tentative measure introduced to cover the period indicated in the next clause. Its introduction in this form cannot be regarded as a suggestion that the dignity or the rights of this chamber are being ignored. It is necessary to pass the bill to protect the revenue. Honorable senators on either side are not bound by the schedule. The purpose of the. bill is to place the department of Trade and Customs in the same position as if Parliament had continued its sittings - no more and no less.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 3 agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without requests; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

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SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · Wes tern Australia · NAT

[4.7] . -I move -

That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn till a day and hour to be fixed by the President, which time of meeting shall be notified to each senator by telegram or letter.

The motion is submitted to permit of Parliament being called together before the dissolution of the House of Representatives. . It is not anticipated that we shall have to act on it.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

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LEAVE OF ABSENCE TO SENATORS

Motion (by Senator Sir George pearce)–by leave - agreed to -

That leaveof absence be granted to every member of the Senate from the determination of the. sitting this day to the day on which the. Senate next meets.

Senate adjourned at 4.9 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 12 September 1929, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1929/19290912_senate_11_121/>.