Senate
29 March 1928

10th Parliament · 1st Session

  1. Senate
  2. 10th Parliament
  3. 1928

The President (Senator the Hon. Sir John Newlands) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 4276

QUESTION

AIR MAILSERVICES

Perth to Adelaide

Senator CHAPMAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I ask the Minister in charge of civil aviation whether it is a fact that a considerable time ago tenders were called for the proposed air mail service between Perth and Adelaide, and then withdrawn? If so, what is causing the delay in calling for fresh tenders ? Seeing that a promise was given that this would be thefirst service inaugurated, will the Government expedite its establishment at an early date?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW:

– Tenders for this service were called some time ago, and the conditions under which it should be operated were left open to the tenderers. But in view of the fact that the Government proposed to initiate a new programme, and bearing in mind the complicated conditions of a service between Perth and Adelaide, which would differ from those of any existing service, it decided to call for new tenders. Some difficulty has been experienced in framing the conditions under which the serviceshall be run. However, the conditions of tender have now been completed, and are in the hands of the printer. It is contemplated that tenders will be called before very long.

page 4276

QUESTION

NEGROES IN MELBOURNE FLATS

Senator ELLIOTT:
VICTORIA

– Is the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories in a position to make an announcement regarding the exclusion from Australia of certain negro entertainers, in view of the reports which have appeared in this week’s newspapers concerning certain happenings in Melbourne ?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW:

– It has been decided that the negroes referred to shall leave Australia by the end of this week.

page 4276

PAPERS

The’ following papers were presented : -

Report of the Canberra National Memorials Committee in regard to the Naming of Canberra’s Streets and Suburbs (in substitution for the report tabled on the 14th December last).

Ordered to be printed.

Northern Territory and North Australia -

Report of the administration of the Northern Territory for the period 1st July, 1928, to 28th February, 1927, and on the administration of the Territory of North Australia from 1st March, 1927, to 30th June, 1927.

Arbitration (Public Service) . Act - Determinations by the Arbitrator, &c. -

No. 6 of 1928 - Federated Public Service Assistants’ Association.’

No. 7 of 1928-Postal Overseers’- Union of Australia.

page 4276

QUESTION

BRITISH BUSINESS DELEGATION TO AUSTRALIA

Senator NEEDHAM:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Leader of the Government in the Senate, upon notice -

  1. Is the Commonwealth Government responsible for the appointment of another commission, namely, of four business men from Great Britain to advise in connexion with the -developmental and economic position of Australia?
  2. If so, what will be the cost of such commission ?
  3. Is the Development and Migration Commission not capable of advising the Government in such matters?
  4. Will the commission of four business men from Great Britain act independently of or in concert with the Development and Migration Commission? ,
Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:

– The replies to the honorable senator’s questions are: -

  1. By arrangement between the British and the Commonwealth Governments,, a delegation of four business men, viz., Sir Harry D. McGowan, K.B.E., Sir Hugo Hirst, Bart., Sir Ernest Clark, K.C.B., C.B.E., and Mr. Dougal Orme Malcolm will visit Australia during this year. The members of the delegation arc to confer with the Commonwealth and the State Governments, with the Development and Migration Commission, and with the leaders of industry and commerce in Australia, on development in Australian resources, and on any other matters of mutual economic interest to Great Britain and the Commonwealth which may tend to the promotion of trade between the two countries and the increase of settlement in Australia.

The balanced development of Australia and an increased rate of settlement from Great Britain are intimately associated with an increase of profitable trade between Great Britain and the Commonwealth. It, is essential that the people of Great Britain should have a better knowledge of the possibilities of Australia, its resources, needs (particularly as regards markets ) , conditions of living and its problems generally, and that Australians should realize and appreciate the problems of Great Britain. With this end in view the Commonwealth Government asked the British Government to arrange for the visit of four men of outstanding capacity in finance, ‘ commerce, industry, and market problems for the purpose of obtaining first hand knowledge, and ‘ discussing these questions with the Commonwealth and the State Governments, the Development and Migration Commission, and Australian business men.

  1. The cost of the delegation cannot at present be stated. The Government will not be under an obligation to meet these expenses, but while the delegation is in Australia they will be the guests of the Government.
  2. It is considered that the question of the capacity of the Development and Migration Commission for the work to be undertaken by the delegation does not arise.
  3. See answer to No. 1.

page 4277

QUESTION

FEDERAL CAPITAL

Footpath and Guttering Charges

Senator ELLIOTT:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

  1. In connexion with the replies given by the Minister on the 23rd instant to questions as to footpath and guttering charges in the Federal Capital, is it alleged that the word “ services “ as used in the Building and Services Ordinance includes the formation of footpaths and kerbing and guttering?
  2. Does it also include “road-making”?
  3. Has this meaning been attached to “ services “ in any other statute or ordinance or judicial decision?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.The Minister for Home and Territories has supplied the f ollowing replies : - 1 and 2. The replies given on the occasion referred to by the honorable senator did not do more than cite the authority pursuant to which the Federal Capital Commission purports to make the charges mentioned. The ordinance does not define the word “ services.”

  1. The Minister is not in possession of sufficient information to enable him to answer this question.

page 4277

QUESTION

NEW GUINEA

Land Titles

Senator ELLIOTT:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

  1. Has the Minister’s attention been drawn to a statement in the press to the effect that very great delay has taken place in the issue of land titles in New Guinea?
  2. In view of the fact that the Master of Titles is responsible for the issue of such titles(vide section6 of the Lauds Registration Ordinance ) , what action has been taken or is proposed to be taken in regard to the alleged neglect of this duty?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.The Minister for Home and Territories has supplied the following replies : -

  1. No: but representations in regard to the matter have been made by the Planters and Traders’ Association of the Territory.
  2. Advice has been received from the Administrator that there has been delay in issuing titles - due mainly to the exhaustive inquiries which must be made regarding native rights to land before a certificate can be granted.

The ordinance provides that questions of native rights to land must be referred to the Central Court for inquiry and determination.

An extra judge has been appointed to the Central Court recently, with the object of facilitating the transaction of the business of the court, including the determination of cases in which native rights are involved.

page 4277

COMMONWEALTH EMPLOYEES COMPENSATION BILL

Motion (by Senator McLachlan) (by leave) agreed to -

That leave be given to introduce a bill for an act relating to compensation to employees of the Commonwealth for injuries suffered in the course of their employment.

page 4277

FINANCIAL AGREEMENT BILL

Third Reading

Motion (by Senator Sir George Pearce) proposed -

That the bill be now read a third-time.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I desire to make a few observations in rebuttal of certain statements of the Leader of the Senate (Senator Pearce) in closing the debate on the motion for the second reading of the bill. The right honorable gentleman asked what guarantee we had that the per capita system of payments to the States would be continued for any length of time, assuming that they had not been abolished by this Government. I, in turn, ask him what guarantee he can give that the system embodied in this measure will continue for any length of time, or that the people of Australia will ratify the agreement when it is submitted to them at a referendum? He has no such guarantee. We realize that it is very difficult indeed to secure an alteration of the Constitution, because it must be consented to by a majority of the electors in a majority of the States. Several attempts have been made to have the Constitution altered in the direction of giving the Commonwealth Parliament greater powers, and nearly all have failed. The right honorable gentleman asserted that the Labour party would have abolished the per capita system if it had been in power. I refer him to the platform of our party, which proves that his statement is inaccurate. He then went on to infer that the figures which I quoted during the secondreading debate were obtained from an honorable member of another place. I give that statement a flat denial. The figures I used were compiled in my own office and without reference to the speech made by any other member of this Parliament. The Leader of the Senate stated that he could not understand how I had estimated that the increase of population in Western Australia would be at the rate of 3 per cent, per annum. He pointed out that the State had increased its population at a high rate during the gold rush, and that he had based his figures on statistics for the last six years.

Senator Sir George Pearce:

– For the last ten years.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– The figures which I quoted covered a period of 26 years - from 1900 to 1926- and did not take into account the accelerated increase clue to the discovery of gold. During the period mentioned the rate of increase was 2.91 per cent., compared with 2.65 per cent, quoted by the Minister. I suggest that my basis of computation was the fairer one, and further that there is good reason to believe that, in view of the rapid progress now being made in Western Australia, the rate of increase, during the period of the agreement will be , in the neighbourhood of 3 per cent, per annum.

Senator Lynch:

– It will be much more than that.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– I regard my estimate as a modest, if not a conservative one. On this basis of calculation, assuming that the per capita payment had been continued, Western Australia would have received at the end of 58 years not £66,000,000 as stated by the Minister, but £74,000,000. The right honorable gentleman admitted that my calculations were sound, except in regard to the figures relating to the 5s. per cent, which the Commonwealth will, under the agreement, pay to the sinking fund for new loans. Let us examine the position more closely. Assuming that Western Australia borrowed money at the rate of £4,000,000 per annum, for the full term of the agreement - and this assumption is based on the amounts raised in recent years - the right honorable gentleman said the State would receive from the Commonwealth Government something like £66,000,000. That statement is entirely misleading, as I shall endeavour to show. Now, 5s. per cent on £4,000,000 represents £10,000 a year. That is the sum which, the Commonwealth would pay to the State in respect of the sinking fund on State loans for the first year. In the second year, assuming that the State raised another £4,000,000, the Commonwealth Government would pay an extra £10,000 into the sinking fund, or a total of £30,000 for the first two years. At that rate the Commonwealth in 58 years would pay into the sinking fund £17,000,000.

Senator Sir George Pearce:

– The honorable senator is losing sight of the fact that 10s. per cent, paid into the sinking fund will extinguish the debt in 58 years, and that the Commonwealth will contribute one-half of the amount.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– I have considered that point. If the per capita pay- ments were continued, portion of the money so paid, would go to the sinking fund for . loan redemption. The amounts actually paid to the States, plus the interest on the sinking fund investments, would be greater than the sum which the States will receive under the agreement. I maintain that under the present proposals Western Australia will be approximately £25,000,000 worse off than it would be under the per capita system. It has been stated during the debate that the Premiers of the’ States agreed to the proposal under duress. I endorse that view. The representatives of the States had no alternative. The Government had cut off their main source of supply. Consequently they had to make the best of a difficult position. Reference to the speeches at the conference support my contention. Mr. Lang said -

The Federal Government’s scheme for a rearrangement of the financial arrangements of the Commonwealth and the States is not acceptable to New South Wales, which under it would be in a worse position than under the earlier proposals for the withdrawal of the per capita payments.

We have also a similar expression of opinion from Mr. Forgan Smith, the Acting Premier of Queensland. He said -

The Queensland Government has very carefully considered the draft proposals originally submitted by the Federal Government, and whilst not retreating in any way from its attitude in regard to the withdrawal of the per capita payment is prepared to accept, with amendments, the underlying principles of the scheme….. Coming to the main proposals so far as we have considered them, I am of the opinion that they do not provide an equivalent for what we are losing by the abolition of the per capita system.

That is a very definite statement by one of the representatives at the conference. The next quotation I wish to make is from the speech of Mr. Collier, the Premier of Western Australia. He said -

The proposals are very attractive in that they provide for a larger contribution to the States for at least a number of years, a larger contribution than would have been received under the per capita system. As to how long the States will benefit under this proposal, as compared with the old system, it is difficult to say. We may make calculations to cover a long period - 15, 20 or 40 years - but after all they must bp largely speculative. The proposal involves the amount of annual borrowing and the contribution of the Commonwealth Government to the sinking fund, lt also involves the question of increasing population, and in this respect I think the advantage is with the Commonwealth, because it may happen that the increase may be greater than that taken into consideration in the tables of statistics before us. We have based our figures upon a 2 per cent, increase in population, which percentage was given to us by the Commonwealth Statistician; but we know that for years past the population of Queensland has increased at a rate greater than 2 per cent. That is, therefore, a speculative matter, and possibly the future will show us that we have been very much astray in our calculations.

Thus we have the representatives of three States at the conference stating definitely that from the point of view of the States, the new proposals would not be so good as the continuation of the per capita system. I repeat, therefore, that the States were obliged to accept the agreement. They had been placed in a tight corner, and had no option. What will be the fate of the agreement when it is submitted to the people I do not know. That is in the lap of the gods. I am convinced, however, that the Government, supported by a majority in this Parliament, has made a mistake in withdrawing the capitation payments to the States, thus taking away from them their main source of supply. It is well known and admitted that the responsibilities of the States for the construction of roads and railways, and the provision of education and other important public services, are steadily increasing, and that therefore their financial resources should not be curtailed. While the agreement may benefit them during the earlier years, I am satisfied that before it runs its course the States will be much the poorer. This will be particularly true of Western Australia. For these reasons I would prefer the third reading of the bill to be negatived.

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

– Before the final act of this ignoble drama vanishes from the stage and passes into regretful memory, I desire to have a last word. The passing of the third reading of the bill will mark the consent of the Senate to this measure. But there is yet hope- ‘even at this, the 11th hour and the 59th minute - that this chamber will awaken to a sense of its duty and consider the rights of the States in this matter. .The introduction of the bill would suggest that in some quarters it is thought that the States have no rights at all. Let me remind the Senate that in this instance, by conserving to the States their rights, we shall injure no other party ; we certainly shall not injure the Commonwealth. When we speak, as we are obliged to do to-day - of the rights of this and future generations, we are only doing our duty. This Parliament is the custodian of the interests of future generations as well as of those of the present generation. When we borrow money - whether it be for 20, 30, or 35 years, we incur liabilities which future generations will have to meet. Similarly, when we tamper with the Constitution to meet the needs of the immediate future, or, at most, the needs of this and the’ next generation, we affect generations yet unborn. At the time of federation the States were given a solemn undertaking that they would continue to receive financial assistance from the central government. I challenge any honorable senator to produce one declaration by any of the founders of federation that the States would be denied financial succour. Yet, under this agreement, the States will suffer financial injury. The founders of federation were intellectual giants, men whose names are household words even to-day. The first Federal ministry, led by Sir Edmund Barton, was a ministry of giants, as was also the ministry which succeeded it. It would be wearying to honorable senators were I to reiterate what they said; it is well known that they were all of one opinion - that the States should continue to share in the revenue of the Commonwealth. I go further; and say that, had it not been for that understanding, federation would never have been consummated. Now, after 27 years of federation, it is proposed to repudiate the bond then entered into. The word of the fathers of federation, which, in their time, they kept as a sacred trust, is to be dishonorably broken. The States will be left to the mercy of the Commonwealth. All that they will receive can only be described as a contemptible dole.

I do not believe in the policy of securing ourselves, and saying “ After us, the deluge “. Nor do I believe in adapting the old Egyptian adage to our time, and saying, “Eat, drink and be merry for to-morrow this generation will die, and the generation that will follow must take care of itself.” The Constitution was framed for all the generations that would follow. . It certainly implied that the financial stability of the States would be secured to them. We ought to preserve a proper balance between the Commonwealth and the’ States; but this agreement will’ mean the death-knell of the financial security of the States. It will leave to them only the flotsam and jetsam which will remain after the Commonwealth has exploited every field of taxation. With the exception of a paltry £5,000,000, the customs and excise revenue is to be retained by the Commonwealth. It is true that there still remain to the States land and income taxation, probate duties, and the entertainments tax. But even those fields will not be wholly reserved to the States. With the Commonwealth still sharing the spoils of those lucrative fields of taxation, what chance will the States have of getting the wherewithal to finance their undertakings? It is a firmly established fact that where different authorities share the same sources of revenue the paramount body always . has first preference. In that case the necessities of the States will be subordinated to the desires of the Commonwealth. The States will be reduced to a condition of impecuniosity and utter financial helplessness. When that comes to pass what will be the position of the average citizen ?

I remind honorable senators that, before federation, the States accomplished much useful work in this country, and that they Still have heavy responsibilities. In Australia the duties and functions of the States are different from those of the States comprising any other federation. The States of the American union, whose constitution we borrowed, are no more like the States in the Australian federation than is noon like the dark midnight hour. The smallest State in our union performs duties and accepts responsibilities which, in the time of Thomas Jefferson, were unthought of as coming within the province of individual States. In Australia, transport facilities, the provision of water and light, and other public utilities have always been under the control of the States, and probably will continue to be discharged by them. -With these heavy obligations to meet, and the

Commonwealth obtaining for itself as much as it can squeeze out of the people, it stands to reason that the States will be reduced to a position of helplessness. In such’ circumstances the position of a man far removed from the seat of Government at Canberra will not be an enviable one. Under existing conditions he knows that his necessities will be supplied by the government of the State in which he lives but with its sources of supply cut off, to whom will he be able to turn for succour? As the custodians of the rights of the people, the Senate should assert itself and maintain a proper balance between the Commonwealth and the States.

Considerations of a purely transient nature have influenced the framers of this agreement. It is true that because of the war in which this country was involved heavy expenditure has to be met annually by the Commonwealth, but its war obligations must necessarily come to an end. The day must come when it will no longer be necessary to pay soldiers’ pensions and some of the other war liabilities which now have to be met. After 1960 it is not likely that very many of the men who served in the great war will be living. It is true that their dependents may still be a burden on our finances, but, even so, we can safely assume that the payment of war pensions will practically cease about 1960.

Senator Sir George Pearce:

– Fifty years after the civil war the United States of America was paying a greater amount by way of war pensions than at any previous time.

Senator LYNCH:

– I am aware .that pensions are being paid in that country to the dependants of those who fought in the Civil War. In our case it is reasonable to asume that after 1960 it will no longer be necessary to pay any considerable amount by way of war pensions. Nor should it then be necessary to meet an annual expenditure of £21,000,000 for general Avar indebtedness. We have provided for a sinking fund of 10s. per cent, for the liquidation of those debts. The money to be applied towards the extinction of our war indebtedness will do its work by 1970, or eighteen years before this agreement terminates. What will be the position of the Commonwealth Trea surer of the day who will then be relieved of an expenditure of £30,000,000. I challenge the Government to deny that, on the one hand, expenditure will be reduced to the extent I have mentioned, and on the other, that the States will be deprived of £20,000,000. There may be £50,000,000 which the Commonwealth Government of the day will be enjoying while the States will be receiving only a miserable pittance. The Commonwealth will still be roaming over all the fields of taxation and carrying out duties, which, in comparison with those undertaken by the States, are infinitesimal.

Take the position of a man in the back country of Australia to-day. The only service or benefit he gets from Commonwealth activities is perhaps an oldage pension or the delivery of a letter or two to him. All his other daily needs are met by services which the State authorities provide. When the central authority will be in this bloated financial position, and the States will be acting in a strikingly subordinate capacity, the outlook of the average citizen will be dismal, and his prospects still further jeopardized. The balance between the two authorities is now being upset, and as a result the people of this country will have to seek some means to make both ends meet so that they may take their part in the great race of life. The people will then find that the central authorities are rolling in wealth while the State authorities are hungering for a crust. In determining the nature of a permanent adjustment we should not allow a passing phase to influence us. Has the Minister in charge of the bill ever considered the attitude which would be adopted by two citizens entering into an agreement to go into business? They would doubtless review the balance-sheets over a period of years; the business might have shown a profit of 10 per cent, .or more on the turnover; but for two years there might have been an abnormal number of bad debts. I do not think they would allow those two years to seriously influence them. Let me give another illustration. A person buying an area of land might open negotiations during a time when the land was not covered with luxurious growth of grass. He might be faced with a sea of desolation as we know is the case when parts of the country are suffering under the effects of a withering drought. Would such a seasonal visitation be taken into serious consideration in assessing the value of the land over a period of years? That would be taken into account to an infinitesimal degree; but it would not be allowed to figure in the transaction as was our war expenditure in these negotiations. When arranging a proper adjustment between the Commonwealth and the States, these passing phases of our national life should not be allowed to permanently influence the settlement.

I have already quoted figures showing that over a period of years the States have had as many deficits as they have had surpluses. Thin doubtless caused the present State Treasurers to come to hurried terms with the Prime Minister. Naturally they thought they saw a way out of the immediate difficulties confronting them, but in doing so they have forfeited the rights of future generations. That they are not entitled to do. This is an unsatisfactory adjustment under which the States will not receive the rights to which they are constitutionally entitled; it means that financially their death warrant has been signed.

I regret that apparently the Senate has decided to support this proposal, and I now say advisedly that its action provides ample justification for the statements . of those who urge that the Senate has outlived its usefulness, and is not doing that which under the Constitution it was expected to do. Various decisions given by it show that it is now nothing more than a chamber in which we find a re-echo of Government policy. We have an opportunity in this case, however, for the Senate to assert its rights and to perform its constitutional duties. You, sir, as one who has had extensive experience in the political life of this country, know that the State Legislative Councils exercise their powers in no mean way in shaping public policy. But the Senate - the Upper House of the Commonwealth Parliament - on a vital question is bowing its knee to the will of the Government irrespective of the right of the States which it was constituted to protect. The interests of the States, and particularly a State such as

I represent, where the per capita payments could give relief in a permanent form, are being sacrificed. Under the proposed agreement no relief can be afforded in the development of new areas. The Senate was specially constituted to preserve State rights and to hold the balance fairly between the central and State authorities; but it has failed in its duty. I can see no justification for the course which has been followed. One by ona State rights are being whittled away, and well might the States say, “ He who takes the wherewithal by which I live, takes my life.”

I have voiced my protest, and have made an earnest appeal to the Senate to recognize its duty to the States. It is gratifying to know that there is still a final court of appeal - there must still be an appeal open to those of us who disapprove of this agreement to the people. Although I am afraid the issue will not be decided in our . favour, I maintain that the rights of the States are being jeopardized and filched from. them. I trust, however, that when a final appeal is made, we shall get something like a verdict so that there will not be too much encroachment upon the unalienable rights of the States. I shall oppose the scheme during the next election campaign, and shall vote against the third reading of the bill. I trust that as a result of the referendum which is to be held there will be a reversal of the verdict which the Senate is about to record.

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · Western Australia · NAT

[3.56].– I wish to correct an interjection which I made while the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Needham) was speaking. When the honorable senator said that my figures as to the increase of population in Western- Australia were based on statistics for the last six years I interjected that they covered a period of ten years. On refreshing my memory by a reference to my notes, I find, however, that his statement was correct. I was misled because I had inferred that his calculations had included the ten years during which there was a mining boom, which had a marked effect upon the figures. The Leader of the Opposition also asked what guarantee there was that the agreement embodied in this billwould continue in force. There is this guarantee: it can be rescinded or varied only by the consent of the parties thereto, and only with their full agreement. It is obvious that if the Commonwealth and the States are of the opinion that it should be rescinded or altered that can be done.

SenatorNeedham. - What will happen if it is not ratified by the people?

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCEThen it will be the duty of the parliament of the day to provide something in its place. When I am asked what guarantee, there is that the people will approve the agreement, I can only say that the commonsense and good judgment of the people will enable them to know . a good thing when they see it. Senator Lynch is very optimistic, and I hope his assertion that the payment of war pensions will cease 50 years hence will come true. That has not been the experience in the United States of America, where war pensions are still being paid as they were soon after the Civil War, although every person who took part in it is dead. The pensions are being paid to the dependants. I remind Senator Lynch, who referred to the rights of the States, of the story of the soldier who claimed that the whole of the regiment was out of step with him. I suggest that there is just a faint possibility - I admit that I may be wrong - that the real position is that Senator Lynch wishes to give away the rights of the States, whilst we who support the agreement wish to safeguard them.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a third time.

page 4283

CUSTOMS TARIFF BILL

Bill returned from the House of Representatives with a message intimating that it had made certain amendments requested by the Senate, and had made the requested amendments to items 105 and 108 with consequential modifications.

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · Western Australia · NAT

[4.1]. - I move -

That so much of the Standing and Sessional Orders be suspended as would prevent the message ‘being at once considered, and all consequent action taken.

The modifications made by another place are consequential. They contain no departure in principle from any of the requests made by the Senate.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Ordered -

That the message be taken into consideration in committee forthwith.

In committee (Consideration of House of Representatives’ message) :

On motion by Senator McLachlan, the consequential modifications made by the House of Representatives in items 105 and 208 were agreed to.

Resolutions reported; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 4283

EXCISE TARIFF BILL

Message received from the House of Representatives asking . concurrence in an amendment made in this bill on the recommendation of the Governor-General.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Ordered -

That the message be taken into consideration in committee forthwith.

In committee (Consideration of House of Representatives’ message) :

Clause 1 -

The Excise Tariff 1921-1926, as amended by the Excise Tariff 1927, is in this act referred to as the principal act.

Recommended amendment -

Omit “ as amendedby the Excise Tariff 1927 “.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

As a matter of fact there is no Excise Tariff 1927, and for the sake of good draughtsmanship the words “ as amended by the Excise Tariff 1927 “ should be excised. The Excise Tariff was originally dealt with in two separate measures which it was subsequently decided to combine. In the act of combining them these words were inadvertently retained.

Motion agreed to.

Resolution reported; report adopted.

page 4284

DEFENCE EQUIPMENT BILL

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended, and hill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW:
Minister for Defence · Queensland · NAT

[4.13].- I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

As a result of very careful consideration of the defence policy of the Commonwealth following upon , the deliberations of theImperial Conference in October, 1923, the Government in 1924 embarked upon a developmental programme to be completed in 1928-29. This programme included the construcof two 10,000 ton cruisers, the Australia and the Canberra, two sea-going submarines, the Oxley and the Otway, and one seaplane carrier, the Albatross. It is anticipated that the Australia, which will be put into commission next month, will arrive in Australian waters about October or November next. The Canberra will probably leave England during December next and arrive in Australia in January, 1929-. . The new submarines were recently commissioned and commenced the voyage to Australia unaccompanied. Extremely rough weather was encountered between England and Gibraltar, and on arrival at Malta it was found that defects had developed in the main engine supporting columns. The contractors accepted the responsibility for the cost of the substitution of new columns and repairs are now being effected at Malta. As soon as possible after these are completed the submarines will continue the voyage to Australia. Satisfactory progress is being made with the construction at Cockatoo Island dockyard, of the seaplane carrier which was launched on the 23rd February last, and its completion is contemplated towards the end of the year.

The estimated cost of these five vessels equipped is £7,400,000, towards which sums already specially appropriated aggregate £4,500,000, viz.- Defence Equipment Act 1924, £2,000,000 ; Naval Construction Act 1925, £1,500,000; and Defence Equipment Act 1926, £1,000,000, leaving a balance of £2,900,000 still to be made available to complete the programme. Under this bill that amount is to be appropriated. As stated in the Treasurer’s Budget Speech, only £1,880,000 of the total of £2,900,000 will be transferred from Revenue to Trust Account during this financial year, the former sum, together with balance unexpended from the previous appropriations of £4,500,000, being adequate to cover anticipated expenditure- upon the programme during the current year. The balance of appropriation, viz., £1,020,000, will be made available from revenue in 1928-29. It will be recollected that, at the time of the passage of the Defence Equipment Act, 1926, in June, 1926, the estimated cost of the naval construction programme was stated as £7,000,000, whereas it is now £7,400,000 - an increase of £400,000. This increase is due to the following : -

  1. additional expenditure on torpedoes, ammunition and gun mountings consequent upon improvements and modifications in those items - also to the cost of fitting in each cruiser a catapult for launching seaplanes, decision upon this having been reached recently ;
  2. an increase of approximately £71,000 is involved for- the Seaplane Carrier, £18,000 of which is due to increased prices for armament, while an additional £53,000 is necessary to cover the cost of application of the 44-hour week and the Workers’ Compensation Acts in New South Wales ;
Senator Foll:

– Is that the total increase above the original estimate?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.The total increase above the original estimate is £400,000. The third cause of the increase is -

  1. approximately £160,000 increase is also involved in necessary aircraft required for the two new cruisers and seaplane carrier.

It is further proposed that a sum of £120,000 shall be appropriated under this bill for the continuance of the survey of the Great Barrier Reef. It will be readily recognized that a proper survey of the Australian coast and outlying islands and reefs, particularly the. Great Barrief Reef and the north and north-west coast of Australia, is of absolutely vital importance from the point of view of not only defence, but also the mercantile marine. For the comparatively small part already surveyed, old charts have been largely depended upon. Recent surveys show that even, when reefs and islands are correctly charted as regards contour and soundings, they are in very many cases out of position and the charts are generally very incomplete. Upon the accuracy of charts more than anything else the safety of shipping around our coasts depends, and, as even the modern charts of the east coast are incomplete and defective in certain respects, the desirableness of continuing the important work by the Moresby at the Great Barrier Reef will be fully appreciated. It is estimated that the £120,000 proposed to be voted will enable this vessel to carry on her important functions for two years.

The question of transportation by air was very fully investigated at the recent Imperial Conference by a special Imperial Air Communications Committee, which recommended to the various Governments the early development of their air services. Further, the different Governments in Europe and America are devoting much attention to commercial aviation, recognizing the importance of improved transportation facilities. The Commonwealth Government recently has also fully considered the question and is satisfied that the extension of some of the existing, and the establishment of new, services are of vital importance. It has been decided to allocate a special sum of £200,000 towards the development of civil aviation within the Commonwealth, and, as part of the programme, it is proposed to establish the following services : -

  1. Perth-Adelaide;
  2. Camooweal-Daly Waters;
  3. Derby- Wyndham ;
  4. Melbourne-Hobart ;
  5. Charleville-Brisbane ;
  6. Sydney-Brisbane.

These will involve approximately 4,000 miles of air lines, which, combined with the routes over which subsidized services arc at present operating, will mean a grand total of over 7,500 miles. When the newly proposed services are inaugurated, the entire Commonwealth will be practically encircled by airways, thus placing Australia in the forefront of all nations in so far as aviation highways are concerned. The £200,000 to be provided will be devoted to the payment of sub- sidies to the companies which will operate the new services; to the provisioning and maintenance of aerodromes, &c, along the various routes; to the additional cost of administration and supervision, and to all other activities in connexion with the development of civil aviation generally, other than those of airships, one of the major activities being the extension of the recently established system of flying training clubs and schools.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I notice that the bill proposes to appropriate the sum of £2,900,000 for the purpose of naval construction and only the paltry amount of £200,000 for aviation. It is not my intention at this stage to embark upon a disquisition in relation to the defence policy of the Government. I shall avail myself of another opportunity to deal comprehensively with that subject; but I say that the Government is not paying sufficient attention to the all-important question of aviation. I should rather see £200,000 appropriated for naval construction and £2,000,000 for aviation. Aviation will play a very important part if ever we should be plunged into another shambles - which, God forbid; and it will be a more important factor than cruisers in the defence of Australia should we be attacked at any time. The cruisers that have been built on Clyde Bank will be almost obsolete by the time they arrive in Australia. The great strides that have been made in aviation in other parts of the world should convince us of the necessity for devoting the keenest attention to that branch of science, for both military and civil purposes. I hope that when future appropriation bills which make provision for defence are brought forward they will disclose an intention on the part of the Government to spend much more upon the development of aviation.

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW (Queensland - Minister for Defence) [4.24]. - SenatorNeedham has endeavoured to show that the Government has not given adequate consideration to the claims of aviation for defence and civil purposes, and he has suggested that the amount which it is now proposed to appropriate is the total sum that will be spent on aviation generally. ‘ I again point out that the proposed vote for naval construction is required to complete the payments for the cruisers, submarines and seaplane carriers that were included in the programme which was commenced in 1924: The Commonwealth is expending between £500,000 and £600,000 . every year upon its air force, in addition to a sum of between £120,000 and £140,000 on civil aviation and flying schools.. The amount which it is now proposed to appropriate is to be used to extend existing services. I think that honorable senators will agree that an extention of our air routes from 3,500 to 7,500 miles will be a- considerable achievement.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 4286

RADIUM APPROPRIATION BILL

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended, and bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
tern Australia - Vice-President of the Executive Council · Wes · NAT

I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This is a bill for an act to appropriate funds for the purchase of a supply of radium for use in the Commonwealth. Over a long period of years Federal and State statistics show a progressive increase in the death rate from the various forms of cancer. This increase is alarming, and renders it vitally necessary that every reasonable and practicable course should be followed to copewith it. In the world-wide search for means to combat its increasing toll on mankind, the most successful methods discovered are the removal of the malignant growth by surgical methods and treatment by one or other form of radiation by light energy, such as ultra violet light, X-ray and radium rays, with or without surgical aid. There has been a gradual evolution in surgical methods which are reaching perfection as far as the limitation of those methods will allow. Radiation methods are valuable substitutes for or accessories to surgical methods.- Most prominent amongst the radiation methods is the use of radium which has been effective in arresting the disease and in its treatment, particularly in cases of inoperateable cancer where surgical means cannot be employed. Although efficient surgical treatment is available to all classes of the community, efficient radio-therapeutic treatment is. not. Owing, perhaps, to the high initial cost of X-ray equipment and the heavy recurring maintenance expenses, Australia lags behind Britain, America and the Continent in its use and application of these methods. The Government, beingconvinced that a definite need existed for -the provision of means whereby- a sufficient supply of radium would be available in Australia for the treatment of all requiring it, and that the available supplies were deficient for that purpose, decided to purchase a quantity sufficient to establish a radium bank. In this action the Government was supported by the recommendations of the Federal Health Council consisting of the permanent heads of the Commonwealth and States departments of Health and also of a Cancer Advisory Committee. The Government now seeks the approval of the Senate for the appropriation of funds to meet the cost of the purchase. Owing to the fact that the introduction of radium into the human body is a highly specialized department of surgery, demanding expert knowledge of the highest quality, the Government deemed it advisable to adhere to the recommendations of its Advisory Committee and to engage an expert to superintend the preparation of the radium into the different forms in which it is used for clinical purposes and to advise on its subsequent distribution and use. Dr. Burrows arrived in Australia some time ago and is at present actively engaged in working out the details connected with the storage, distribution and expert utilization of this very valuable substance. I may add that the quantity to be purchased is 10 grammes. Of this amount, 3 grammes are now in Australia, 51/2 grammes will arrive next week, and 11/2 grammes are on route to the Commonwealth.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I have no objection to offer to the bill. Cancer is one of the most malignant and deadly diseases that afflict mankind. Eminent surgeons have for some time stressed the value of radium treatment in the war which is being waged against this scourge. It is advisable, therefore, that we should do all that is possible to make available to the medical profession the most valued known means to combat the disease. I cannot help thinking, however, that the Government is not deserving of commendation for having purchased its supplies of radium outside Australia. I understand that there is a radium mine at Mount Paynter, in South Australia, where it should have been possible to obtain at least some portion of the radium required.

Senator Sampson:

– There is a radium mine there but no radium.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– I do not agree with the honorable senator. I am advised that the representatives of the AustralianRadium Corporation offered to sell a certain quantity of radium to the Commonwealth Government.

Senator Sir George Pearce:

– They had not the radium for sale. It was to be produced.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– As I understand the position, when the Government was about to purchase this radium, Dr. Cumpston was in communication with representatives of the Australian company, and was disposed. to consider favorably its offer to supply a certain quantity. I believe he suggested that the Government should give . the company a chance to supply 5 grammes. The Government did not do this. It preferred to purchase its supplies from outside Australia at a cost of £100,000, for which the necessary appropriation is now sought in this bill. The Radium Beige

Company from which the radium is being obtained, has practically a monopoly of the world’s supply. The South Australian company was formed in 1914, and has spent approximately £8,000 on developmental work. On 27th October last it asked the Prime Minister to allow it to supply portion of the radium required. A letter on the departmental file will bear out my statement. As the company claimed to be in a position to supply at least a portion of the radium required by the Government, it should have been encouraged. I presume that in time further supplies will be needed. If so, I trust that the Government will endeavour to obtain the radium from the Australian company.

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE (Western Australia - Vice-President of the Executive Council) . [4.40] . - In reply to the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Needham), I may say that in July of last year Sir Neville Howse, who was then carrying out the duties of Minister for Health, had an interview with a Melbourne doctor, who was chairman of directors of Australian Radium Corporation, and was informed that the company was prepared to supply the Government with radium from its mine at Mount Paynter, but Sir Neville Howse gathered from the interview that the company had no radium on hand. Although, as Senator Needham has stated, the company has been in existence since 1914, Sir Neville Howse was advised that it would not be in a position to supply, radium in any quantity for perhaps nine months, or perhaps a year. In the circumstances, the Government decided to place the order outside Australia.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 4287

PETROLEUM PROSPECTING BILL

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended, and bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW:
Minister for Defence · Queensland · NAT

[4.45] . -I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

By the Petroleum Prospecting Acts of 1926 and 1927, a total sum of £160,000 has been appropriated out of surplus revenue to meet expenditure in connexion with the search for mineral oil in Australia and in the Territories of New Guinea and Papua. In Australia, expenditure is being incurred in the payment of subsidies, on the basis of £1 for every £2 expended by the- recipient, to companies boring for oil in approved areas, and in contributions towards the cost of government geological surveys in selected areas. Certain administrative expenses, consisting principally of the salaries of a geological adviser, a palaeontologist and assistants, are also being incurred. In the territories, expense is being incurred in connexion with boring operations at Popo, in Papua, which are being carried out by the Anglo-Persian

Oil Company on behalf of the Commonwealth Government, and approval was given recently for the payment of a subsidy to an oil company at Hohoro, also in Papua. The total expenditure to the end of last month was £63,658. The present indications are that the whole of the sum already appropriated will be required for work of the nature to which I have just referred. The following statement shows how the expenditure has been allocated : -

Since the last previous appropriation an arrangement has been made with the Anglo-Persian Oil Company to make a number of special surveys in Papua and New Guinea, with the object of determining the areas in those territories in which oil-boring operations by private companies might justifiably be subsidized by the Government. In pursuance of this arrangement, a well-equipped party of geologists and surveyors is now at work in Papua. As a preliminary to the land surveys, an aerial reconnaissance of the two territories was made recently by the Australian Air Force. The information obtained during that reconnaissance, by way of photographs of the country flown over, is being utilized by the geological party. The special surveys will probably extend over a period of three years, and the geological and aerial operations will, it is estimated, involve an expenditure of at least £50,000. The object of the bill is to appropriate an additional sum of £50,000 to cover that expenditure.

Senator Payne:

– Are we to understand that no assistance has been given to the companies operating in New Guinea ?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW.Geological surveys are being carried out in New Guinea preparatory to advances being made to the companies operating there. It may interest honorable senators if I give a forecast of the probable ex-

Senator Needham:

– To what depth has the bore at Popo been drilled ?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW:

– Operations are still being continued at Popo, but I am not aware of the depth which the bore has reached.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee -

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 (Appropriation of £50,000 for petroleum prospecting).

Senator REID:
Queensland

.- Has the Minister any official information to give to the Senate as to the possibility of oil being discovered in commercial quantities at any of the places he has mentioned ?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW (Queensland - Minister for Defence) [4.51]. - I have no information as to the results which may be expected from the boring operations now taking place, excepting that the ground is considered to be worth testing.

Senator Payne:

– Is it a fact that, so far as Popo is concerned, the geological survey has been completed ?

Senator Sir WILLIAM GLASGOW:

– The surface work at Popo has been completed, but it will take some time to complete the geological survey of the whole territory.

Senator THOMPSON:
Queensland

– I hope that the Government will not lose sight of the possibility of obtaining oil from coal and shale in Australia. I point out that this is being done on a commercial basis in Germany.

Clause agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; re-‘ port adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 4289

PARLIAMENTARY ALLOWANCES BILL

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended, and bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · Wes tern Australia · NAT

[4.55]. - I move-

That the bill be now read a second time.

By this bill it is proposed to amend the Parliamentary Allowances Act 1920 in regard to the payment of allowances to senators and members of the House of Representatives.

In the case of a senator chosen or appointed to fill a casual vacancy the existing law provides that the payment of his allowance shall commence from the day on which his name is certified by the Governor of a State to the Governor-General. The bill provides that payment shall commence from the date of his choice or appointment. It also provides that when a dissolution of the Senate takes place, senators who arc candidates at the succeeding election willreceive their allowances up to the day of election. A similar provision is made in respect of members of the House of Representatives in the case of a dissolution of that branch of the legislature.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– This bill makes what, I think honorable senators generally will agree, is a necessary provision. Through want of it many members of this Parliament have suffered loss in the past. During the interregnum between the date of dissolution of Parliament and the next election, retiring members perform a lot of work for their constituents, and are, therefore, entitled to payment. ‘

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 4289

LEAVE OF ABSENCE

Motion (by Senator Sir George

Pearce) agreed to -

That leave of absence be granted to every member of the Senate from the determination of the sitting this day to the day on which the Senate next meets.

page 4290

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT

Motion (by Senator Sir Georgi; Pearce) agreed to -

That the Senate at its rising adjourn till Thursday, 26th April, next.

Senate adjourned .at S.l p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 29 March 1928, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1928/19280329_senate_10_118/>.

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