Senate
24 September 1924

9^th Parliament · 2^nd Session

QUESTION
- NORTHERN TERRITORY,
QUESTION
- SENATOR WILSON
PAPERS
QUESTION
- REPRESENTATION OF TERRITORIES
QUESTION
- SOLDIER CANDIDATES FOR APPOINTMENTS
DAIRY PRODUCE EXPORT CONTROL BILL
BANKRUPTCY BILL
APPROPRIATION BILL (1924-25)
ADJOURNMENT
- Tuesday Sittings

The Deputypresident (Senator Newland) took the chair at3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 4649

QUESTION

NORTHERN TERRITORY,

Senator GARDINER:
NEW SOUTH WALES

-In view of certain unrest in South Australia, will the Government introduce a measure this session to restore the Northern Territory to that state? If not, will opportunity be afforded to a private member to introduce the necessary legislation to achieve that object ?

Senator PEARCE:
Minister of Home and Territories · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

-No suggestion of the kind has been made by the only authority that could make it, namely, the Government of South Australia.

page 4649

QUESTION

SENATOR WILSON

Senator GARDINER:

– Is Senator

Wilson the member of the Country party referred to at a gathering in Collins-street as sitting down with a concertina and playing “Love me and the world is mine “?

Question not answered.

page 4649

PAPERS

The following papers were presented. -

Audit Act- Transfers of amounts approved by the Governor-General in Council - Financial Year, 1923-24- Dated 17th September, 1924.

Central Australia - Report by Dr. V. Stefansson.

International Labour Organization of the League of Nations - Sixth Conference, held at Geneva, June-July,1924- Reports by Australian Delegates.

Lands Acquisition Act - Notifications of land acquired for Postal purposes -

Gladstone, New South Wales.

Kimba, South Australia.

Papua - Ordinance No. & of1924 - Post and Telegraph.

Public Service Act - Appointments -R. G. Casey and W. Henderson, Prime Minister’s Department.

Railways Act - Reporton Commonwealth Railway operations for year ended 30th June,1924.

WarService Homes Act - Notification of land acquired at Peachurst, New South Wales,

page 4649

QUESTION

REPRESENTATION OF TERRITORIES

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Has the Government recently considered the advisability of giving in the Senate and the House of Representatives direct representation to the people of the Mandated Territories, Papua, and the islands in the Pacific administered by the Commonwealth?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– The form of government for the Mandated Territory and Papua is a matter that will he considered by the Government during the recess, which it is hoped is not far off.

Senator Gardiner:

– Is it the intention of the Government to go into recess before Christmas ?

Senator PEARCE:

– With the friendly co-operation of the party opposite, we hope to do so.

page 4650

QUESTION

SOLDIER CANDIDATES FOR APPOINTMENTS

Senator HOARE:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Is it true that approximately 100 soldier candidates who were successful at examination No. 881, which was held in June, 1920, are still awaitingappointment; if so, why have they not been appointed to positions?
Can anything be done to expedite these appointments?
Is there any reason why the vacancies caused by the retirement of the 1,600 officers who were superannuated during the year 1923 are not being filled from the list of successful examinees 7

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– The Prime Minister has supplied the following answers : -

Four hundred and seven returned soldier candidates qualified at the examination for the position of clerk in Victoria, of whom 108 remain unappointed because sufficient vacancies requiring to be filled by new appointments have not occurred to enable them to be placed in permanent positions.
The unappointed successful candidates can only receive appointment as vacancies arise whichcannot be filled by excess officers.
The 1,600 officers referred to retired throughout the Commonwealth, and not in Victoria alone. Moreover, the positions vacated by them werenot only those of clerk, but included positions of varied classification, and some of them were in departments notsubject to the Public Service Act. Where opportunity offered for the appointment of successful candidates to these vacancies, they received appointment.

page 4650

DAIRY PRODUCE EXPORT CONTROL BILL

Bill received from the House of Representatives, and (on motion by Senator Wilson) read afirst time.

page 4650

BANKRUPTCY BILL

In committee (Consideration of House of Representatives amendments resumed from 19th September, vide page 4552):

Clause -4 -

In this Act, unless the contrary intention appears - “ Registrar “ means’ a registrar in bankruptcy or deputy registrar in bankruptcy. House of Representatives’ Amendment. - Omit “ or deputy registrar in bankruptcy,” insert “ and includes a deputy registrar in bankruptcy when exercising any of the powers or functions of the registrar.”

Upon which Senator Wilson had moved -

That the amendment be agreed to.

And upon which Senator Gardiner had moved, by way of amendment -

That the words “ or deputy registrar “ be re-inserted.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

-(SenatorKingsmill). - The position when the Temporary Chairman (Senator McDougall) left the chair on Friday was that the Minister had moved to agree to amendment No. 1 of the House ofRepresentatives, which amendment is to omit certain words and insert other words. Senator Gardiner had moved to re-insert the words proposed to be omitted, viz., or deputy registrarin bankruptcy. “ I have now toput the question on Senator Gardiner’s motion, The carrying of his motion would not, in effect, be an amendment of the amendment made by the House of Representatives, but a disagreement with that part of such amendment as omits the words “ or deputy registrar in bankruptcy.” The correct and most direct way to arrive at a decision is to put the question - “ That the committee agree to that part of amendment No. 1 of- the House of Representatives which omits the words ‘ or deputy registrar in bankruptcy.’ “ If the committee decides that question in the affirmative, Senator Gardiner’s motion is defeated. The committee can then proceed to a decision on the second part of the amendment of the House of Representatives, which is to insert certain words. I shall now put the question - That the committee agree to that part of amendment No. 1 of the House of Representatives which omits the words “ or deputy registrar in bankruptcy.”

Motion agreed to.

Amendment of the amendment negatived.

Senator Gardiner:

– If my memory serves me rightly, the committee had decided that the question be now put; therefore, I could not speak upon the question. In what way can I place my view of the amendment before the committee?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– I thought that the honorable senator had presented his view of the amendment proposed by him.

Senator Gardiner:

-not in the form in which it has been stated to-day.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– The question now is that the amendment made by the House of Representatives inserting the words “ and includes a deputy registrar in bankruptcy when exercising any of the powers or functions of the registrar “ be agreed to

Motion agreed to.

Clause 6 -

This act shall not affect-

Any provision in any state bank ruptcy or insolvency act relating to the matter not dealt with in, or within the scope of, this act; or

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - Omit “ in, or within the scope of,” and insert “ either expressly or by necessarv implication, in”.

Senator WILSON (South Australia-

Honorary Minister) [3.13]. - I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

Paragraph a in the form in which it left this chamber was considered to be too vague. The insertion of the words proposed will more clearly express the intention of the clause.

Motion agreed to.

Clause 12- (4.) Where an official receiver is remunerated by fees and commission only -

if, in respect of any estate, no trustee is appointed, he shall receive such commission, not exceeding the highest commission which under the provisions of this act could have been paid to a trustee of the estate, as the court directs; and
if in respect of any estate, a trustee is appointed, such fees as are prescribed, and such commission as the court directs, but so that the total commission payable in respect of the estate shall not exceed the highest commission which under the provisions of this act could have been paid to a trustee of the estate.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - Omit paragraphs (a) and (b), insert the following paragraphs: - ” (a) if, in respect of any estate, the official receiver is appointed trustee or no trustee is appointed, he shall receive commission as trustee of the estate; and

if, in respect of any estate, a person other than the official receiver is appointed trustee, the official receiver shall receive such fees as are prescribed, and such commission as the court directs.”.

Senator WILSON (South Australia-

Honorary Minister) [3.15]. - I move -

That the amendmentbe agreed to.

This amendment is consequential upon another amendment to be proposed in clause 133. It is obviously useless to limit the rate of commission payable to an official receiver in the manner specified in the existing clauses if no limit is finally fixed as regards the trustees’ remuneration.

Motion agreed to.

Clause 12 - (8.) The Registrar shall distribute the receiverships of the particular estates among the official receivers in the prescribed manner.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. -

Omit “Registrar,” and insert “Court”.

Senator WILSON (South Australia-

Honorary Minister) [3.16]. - I move -

That the amendment he agreed to.

The court when making a sequestration order appoints an official receiver for the estate. It is therefore incorrect to speak of the registrar as distributing the receiverships. Hence the necessity for the amendment.

Motion agreed to.

Amendments in clauses 15 and18 agreed to.

Clause 19-

Subject to section six of this act, all bankruptcy matters pending in any state court or court of a Territory exercising bankruptcy jurisdiction at the commencement of this act may -

in the case of a state court be transacted and disposed of by or under the direction of such one or more judges of the court as the GovernorGeneral with the concurrence of the Governor of the state appoints for that purpose; and

) in the case of the court of a Territory such one or more judges of the court as the Governor-General appoints for that purpose.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - Omit all words after “act”, and insert “may be transacted and disposed of byor under the direction of -

the judge or judges of the court; or

in the case of a state court, such one or more judgesof the court as the Governor -Generalwith the concurrenceof theGovernor of the state appoints for that purpose; or

in the case of a court of a Territory, such one or more judges of the court as the Governor-General appoints for that purpose.”.

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

This is an amendment to correct one of those errors which frequently occur in the discussion in committee of so many lengthy bills. Paragraph a was omitted in error when the clause was amended in the Senate.

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

– The committee is entitled to know why this error occurred. It is impossible for every honorable senator to carry in his mind the effect of a clause upon other provisions in the bill, but the Minister should make a more definite statement. Unless it was intended to leave out paragrapha I cannot understand how it could have been left out. I think that the Minister should say who moved to have it omitted.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I stated that it was omitted in error. If the honorable senator desires to place the responsibility upon me, I shall take no exception to that being done. Since this bill was first introduced there have been so many alterations that it has been impossible for anyone to follow them all. When the bill was before the Senate, 50 amendments were made, and we have here about 80 made by another place. Possibly 65 of them are of very little more importance that the crossing of a “ t “ or the dotting of an “ i “..I agree with the honorable senator that having regard to the time that this bill has been before us it should be perfect when it finally leaves us.

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

– It is because I want the bill to be perfect that I desire to know the reason for the omission. I am not desirous of placing the blame upon the

Minister,but I do not know howso serious an error as to leave out a whole clause could have occurred.

SenatorWilson.-It waspart of a clause only.

SenatorGARDINER. - I accept the explanation which the Minister knows, but which he will not tell us.

Motion agreed to.

Clause . 22 - (2.) Subject to rules all barristers-at-law, solicitors and attorneys admitted to practise in the High Court or in any Supreme -Court of a State or Territory may practise and be heardin every Court exercising bankruptcy jurisdiction.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - Omit “barristers-at-law “, insert “ barristers “.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

This is another technical alteration. There is no explanation other than that it is desired by the department.

Senator Needham:

– Will the Minister explain the difference between “barristersatlaw” and “barristers”?

Senator WILSON:

– I am informed that the meaning is virtually the same, but that the correct word to use in a bill is “ barristers “.

Motion agreed to.

Clause 23 -

The court may delegate to the registrar such of the powers vested in the court (except this power of delegation) as the court deems expedient to ; be delegated to him.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - After “ powers “ insert “ of an administrative nature “.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

This clause has been carefully considered from the constitutional aspect: Section 71 of the Constitution provides that the judicial powers of the Commonwealth shallbe vested in a Commonwealth Supreme Court, and in such other federal courts as the Parliament creates, -or courts which it invests with federal jurisdiction. The courts having jurisdiction in bankruptcy under the bill will have certain judicial powers which could only be exercised by the registrar in violation of the Constitution. As clause 23 stands at present, it purports to empower the court to delegate any of its powers, including presumably its judicial powers, to a registrar. It is considered advisable to place the matter free from doubt, and to insert the words referred to in the amendment.

Motion agreed to.

Clause 24-

Subject to rules, it Registrar shall have, in addition to the powers which may be delegated to him by the Court under the provisions of this Act, the following powers, duties, and jurisdiction of a Court, namely -
1. To approve compositions or schemes of arrangement when they are not opposed and to appoint a day to consider any composition or scheme of arrangement under Part XI. of this Act;
2. To appoint a meeting to inquire into the validity of a deed of assignment under Part XI. of this Act; to inquire whether the deed complies with the provisions of that Part; and to grant a certificate of validity of the deed;
3. To order to attend before him and examine the bankrupt or his wife; . . or any person .. . . capable of giving information respecting the bankrupt, his trade dealings, property, or affairs, and otherwise to exercise the powers of the Court contained in section eighty of this Act, and to exercise the power of committal and discharge contained in that section;
4. To make orders with respect to the costs of a creditor proving his debt;

Bouse of Representatives? Amendments. - Omit “ a,” insert “ the,” in sub-clause ( 1 ) ; omit all the words after “ opposed “ in paragraph (c) of sub-clause (1.)..

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendments be agreed to.

The first of these amendments requires no explanation. It is deemed advisable to omit any provision which purports to give to the registrar judicial powers. With the exception of the first amendment, which is purely an error in drafting, all the amendments proposed in this clause are made with that object.

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

. The Minister’s explanation appears to be that after this bill has been fifteen years before Parliament, and has passed through this Senate, some one finds out that something which has been passed is probably un constitutional, and for that reason amendments must be made in another place. I. know that the Minister is quite clear in his own mind as to the necessity for agreeing with the amendments of another place, but I am not quite so clear on that point. How could a matter of such importance have escaped the draftsman in the first place, and, later, the legal advisers of the Government? The error must have been detected by some of the keen legal minds of the Labour party in another place. Evidently the various governments during the last fifteen years discovered nothing of a doubtfully constitutional nature in the bill.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– It is seldom that lawyers agree. In a lengthy measure such as this, it is possible that a number of further alterations could be found. A careful scrutiny of these amendments will show that for the most part they affect only the phraseology of the bill. While I agree with the honorable senator that it is a pity that so many alterations have been found necessary, I do not attribute that to any negligence on the part of any one. In none of these amendments are there any alterations of the principles which were discussed and agreed upon by us; all the amendments refer to small details which were discovered on the re-printing of the bill.

Motion agreed to.

Home of Representatives’ Amendment. - Omit paragraph (d).

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

The same explanation that applied in the other cases to which I have referred applies also in this case.

Motion agreed to.

Bouse of Representatives’ Amendment. - Omit paragraphs (n), (p), (q), and (r), insert the following paragraph: -

To exercise the powers of the court under section 62 of this act; and

Motion (by Senator Wilson) proposed -

That the amendment be agreed to.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I should like the Minister (Senator Wilson) to give the committee some information concerning the effect of this amendment. Clause 24 relates to the powers that the registrar can exercise, but the amendment made in another place is to include a paragraph reading: - “ To exercise the powers of the court under section 62 of this act.” Clause 62 deals with the powers of the official receiver, and I am wondering whether there will be any conflict between the powers of the official receiver and those of the registrar. The amendment before the committee gives the registrar all the powers contained in clause 62, and if the amendment is accepted, possibly the duties of the registrar will conflict with those of the official receiver.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I am informed that the insertion of the proposed paragraph is deemed advisable in order to prevent delay when it is necessary to appoint an interim receiver immediately upon the presentation of a petition.

Senator BENNY:
South Australia

– The functions of the registrar have already been restricted to administrative duties, and this amendment is to give effect to that. It is the policy of the Government to restrict the powers of the registrar to administrative duties, and clause 62, to which attention has been directed, reserves that power to the court, except where the court gives the power to the official receiver.. In order to properly safeguard the position, paragraphs p, q, and r, which relate to judicial capacity, excepting where expressly delegated by the court under clause 62, have been left out.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I have not yet been definitely assured that there will be any conflict between the duties of the official receiver and those of the registrar.

Senator Benny:

– There will not be.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– According to Senator Benny’s interpretation of the amendment, it is a question of the delegation of power from the courtto the official receiver. I can understand the delegation of power for the time being, but I should like to know whether there is likely to be any conflict of power.

Senator Wilson:

– I can assure the honorable senator that there will not be.

Motion agreed to.

Amendments in clauses 47 and 52 agreed to.

Clause 66 - (1.) Where a sequestration order is made against a debtor, he shall make out and file . . a statement. . . . (4.) Any person who, by untruthfully stating that he is a creditor or the agent of a creditor of the bankrupt, inspects the statement without payment’ of the prescribed fee, shall he guilty of an offence.

Penalty : Five pounds.

House of , Representatives’ Amendment. - Omit sub-clause (4.) and insert the following sub-clause : - “ (4.) Any person who untruthfully statesthat he is a creditor or the agent of a creditor of the bankrupt and is allowed by virtue of thatstatement to inspect the statement filed pursuant to this section without payment of the prescribed fee, shall be guilty of an offence.

Penalty : Five pounds.”

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

This is a drafting amendment, but those made in clauses 68 and 69 extend the privilege of inspecting the notes of the examination without payment of fees to the official receiver, the trustee, and the bankrupt.

Motion agreed to.

Amendments in clauses 68 and 69 agreed to.

Clause 70-

A bankrupt shall not be excused from answering any question put to him on any examination by reason only that the answer thereto may expose him to punishment under this act.

House ofRepresentatives’ Amendments. - Before “ A bankrupt “ insert “ Unless the court otherwise directs “ ; omit the words “ under this act.”

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendments be agreed to.

It is desirable that the court should have a discretion to excuse a bankrupt from answering any question that may be put to him when the answer may incriminate him.

Motion agreed to.

Amendments in clauses 77, 79, and 80 agreed to.

Clause 84- (1.) Subject to the next succeeding subsection, sections 93, 112, and 122 of this act, the trustee shall apply the estate of the bankrupt in the following order of priority : -

Eighthly, in payment of all municipal or other local rates due from the bankrupt at the date of the order of sequestration and having become due and payable within twelve months next preceding that date; and all assessed land tax and income tax, assessed under any act or state act prior to the date of the order of sequestration and not exceeding in the whole one year’s assessment; and in repayment of any advance made to the bankrupt, or in payment of any amount owing by the bankrupt for goods supplied to him, under any act or state act or law of a Territory relating to or providing for the improvement, development or settlement of land :

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - After “ land “ at end of paragraph (h) insert “ or the aid, development or encouragement of mining.1’

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South. Australia · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

Mining is of national importance, and it is desirable that the activities of the states should be subject to no checks. It is considered that advances made for the purposes referred to in the amendment should be in the same favoured position as advances made for land settlement.

Motion agreed to.

Clause 91-

The property of the bankrupt divisible amongst his creditors . . . shall not include -

policies of life assurance or endowment, which have endured for at least two years, and the contributions made towards the policies, to the extent of Twothousand pounds in the aggregate of insurance or endowment.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. -

Omit paragraph (b ) , insert the following paragraph : - “ (b) policies of life assurance or endowment, except to the extent of a charge on the policies in respect of the amount of the premiums paid on the policies during the two years next preceding the date of the order of sequestration;”.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

It is felt by another place that unless this clause is amended as proposed, it will enable a debtor to defeat his creditors. It has, therefore, proposed to limit the debtor’s contribution to a life assurance policy taken out prior to the sequestration, which may not be divisible among the creditors.

Motion agreed to.

Further amendment in clause 91 agreed to.

Amendments to clause 93 agreed to.

Clause 95 (Avoidance of preferences).

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - Add the following sub-clause: - “ (4.) For the purposes of this section a creditor shall not be deemed to be a purchaser, payee or encumbrancer in good faith if the conveyance, transfer, charge, payment or obligation were made or incurred under such circumstances as to lead to the inference that the creditor knew or had reason to suspect that the debtor was unable to pay his debts as they became due, and that the effect of the conveyance, transfer, charge, payment or obligation would be to give him a preference over the other creditors.”.

Motion (by Senator Wilson) proposed -

That the amendmentbe agreed to.

Senator THOMPSON:
Queensland

– I regret that the preference provisions inserted by Sir Samuel Griffith in the Queensland act against fraudulent practices have not found a place in this bill. However, this clause is a step towards the prevention of fraudulent preferences, and that fact modifies very considerably my regret that it does not go further. We are certainly not getting all we want in this legislation, but I think it highly desirable that it should be enacted without further delay. If in the course of time it is not found to work too well, or if anomalies are discovered in it, an amending bill can be brought down.

Motion agreed to.

Amendments in clause 97 agreed to.

Clause 98- (2.) After the expiration of twenty years after the date of the sequestration of the estate of a bankrupt, no claim shall be made by the trustee of the estate, to any estate or interest in any land belonging to the bankrupt, and that estate or interest shall, subject to the rights (if any) of any person in possession of the land, be deemed to be vested in the bankrupt or any person claiming through or under him; as the case may be. (3.) Where a banker has ascertained that a person having an account with him is an undischarged bankrupt, then, unless the banker is satisfied that the account is on behalf of some other person, it shall be his duty forthwith to inform the trustee in the bankruptcy or the Attorney-General of the existence of the account, and thereafter he shall not make any payments out of the account, except under an order of the court or in accordance with instructions from the trustee, unless by the expiration of one month from the date of giving the information no instructions have been received from the trustee orthe AttorneyGeneral.

House of -Representatives’ Amendment: - After sub-clause 2 insert the following Bubclauses : - (2a.) Where a doubt arises as to the identity of any person appearing in the title to any property with any bankrupt, any intending or actual vendor, mortgagor or lessor of the property or applicant to bring land under the provisions of any act or state act relating to the title to land, or any resuming or constructing authority under any act or state act may give, to the official receiver or trustee of the estate of the bankrupt as to whose identity the doubt arises, a notice, accompanied by the prescribed fee, containing particulars of the property in question and of the person whose identity is in doubt, and a statement of his intention to sell, mortgage or lease, or complete the sale, mortgage or lease, of the property or to bring the property under the provisions of any act or state act relating to title to land, or to pay compensation in respect of the resumption of the property. (2b.) The official receiver or trustee may, within such time after the date of the notice as is prescribed, file with the Registrar of Titles or Registrar-General or other proper officer of the Commonwealth or the state in which the property is situated, a memorandum in the prescribed form claiming the property in respect of which the notice was given. (2c.) If the official receiver or trustee does not within the prescribed time file, in accordance with .the last preceding sub-section, a memorandum claiming the property in respect of which the notice was given, he shall not be entitled at any future time to assert his title thereto- or make any claim in .respect thereof as against the vendor, mortgagor, lessor, applicant or the resuming or constructing authority, or as against any person claiming under or through the vendor, mortgagor, lessor or applicant. (2d.) The official receiver or trustee may file with the Registrar of Titles or RegistrarGeneral or other proper officer of the Commonwealth or the state in which the ‘property is situated, a notice, in the prescribed form, of withdrawal of any such memorandum.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

This amendment provides a means whereby a vendor may call on a trustee to state whether certain property he has under his control forms part of the estate of a bankrupt. The provision is taken from the New South Wales Conveyancing Act.

Senator O’LOGHLIN:
South Australia

– I think we should have a. little more information from the Minister as to why a comprehensive provision of this character was omitted from the bill, and why it has now been found necessary to insert it.

Senator WILSON (South AustraliaHonorary Minister) [3.581.- This bill attempts to bring the bankruptcy legisla tion of six states into uniformity. It ha* been thoroughly discussed by the Crown Law Offices of the Commonwealth and the states, and every endeavour has been made to meet the wishes of the states wherever it has been possible to do so. When the bill was drafted, and submitted to the states, further requests were made by them for ‘the inclusion of provisions. The new sub-clause with which we are now dealing is one of those. It is taken in its entirety from the New South Wales Conveyancing Act.

Motion agreed to.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - Omit all the words after “ information,” line 13, sub-clause 3; insert “no order has been made by the court and no instructions have been received from the trustee”.

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

The clause as it stands is incomplete. It ignores the fact that an order of the court may be made within a month after information of the bankruptcy has been given. . The amendment is designed to cure that defect.

Motion agreed to.

Further amendments in clause 98 agreed to.

Amendments in clauses 99, 100, 103, and 106 agreed to.

Clause 119- (1.) A bankrupt may, at any time after be has been publicly examined, or at such time as is prescribed, and shall, whenever ordered so to do by the court on the application of the official receiver or the trustee or in pursuance of this Act, apply to the court for an order of discbarge releasing him from his debts.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - After “ trustee “, sub-clause 1, insert “ or a creditor who has proved his debt “.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

The creditor who desires the opportunity to examine the debtor is by this amendment permitted to apply to the court for an order to do so.

Motion agreed to.

Further amendment in clause 119 agreed to.

Amendment in clause 121 agreed to. Clause 133-

Where the creditors appoint any person other than the official receiver to be trustee of a bankrupt’s estate, his remuneration (if any) shall from time to time be fixed by a resolution of the creditors, or if the creditors so resolve,by the committee of inspection, and shall be in the nature of a commission not exceeding Five pounds per centum on the amount realized by the trustee after the deduction of the expenses of realization, but the creditors may, by resolution, fix a higher commission on the collection of book debts.

Provided, however, that in the case of two or more trustees acting in succession the commission shall he apportioned in such manner as the Registrar determines. (3.) If one-fourth in number or value of the creditors dissent from the resolution, or the bankrupt satisfies the court that the remuneration is unnecessarily large, -the court shall fix the amount of the remuneration.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - At end of sub-clause (1.) insert the following sub-clause: - “ (1a.) Notwithstanding anything contained in the last preceding sub-section the remuneration of the trustee shall, if the creditors so resolve, be a sum of money fixed in accordance with the prescribed scale.”.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be. agreed to.

This sub-clause will enable creditors to fix the remuneration of a trustee in accordance with the duty he has to perform in small estates for the administration of which he would otherwise not be adequately remunerated.

Motion agreed to.

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - After sub-clause (3.) insert the following subclause: - “ (3a.) Notwithstanding anything contained in this section, the court may order that the remuneration of a trustee be increased, and may take into account in allowing the increase -

any special services rendered by the trustee; and
any special circumstances which in the opinion of the court increased the difficulty of realizing the estate.”.

Motion (by Senator Wilson) proposed -

That the amendment he agreed to.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– There appears to be some anomaly as regards the fees. In clause 57 it is stated that the remuneration of the trustee shall, if the creditors so resolve, be in accordance with the prescribed scale, but under clause 58 the court may order the remuneration of a trustee to be increased if special services are rendered, or if special circumstances increase the difficulty of realization. It would be quite easy for a trustee to put up a very good case in support of a request for special remuneration. In my opinion, it would be safer for the fees to be as prescribed in clause 57.

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

– I think the honorable senator will realize that if a trustee has to travel extensively he should receive extra fees. We may, I think, safely leave this matter to the court.

Motion agreed to.

Amendments in clauses 157, 160, 162, 163, 175, and 177 agreed to.

Clause 184-

The trustee of a deed may retain out of the estate, as a remuneration for his care and trouble in and about the execution of the trusts thereof, such commission as is fixedby the creditors, the commission not to exceed Five pounds per centum on the amount realized by the trustee after the deduction of the expenses of realization, but the creditors may fix a higher commission on the collection of book debts.

House of Representatives’ Amendments. - After “ thereof” insert “ such a sum of money or”; omit all the words after “exceed” and insert the following paragraphs: - “ (a) Five pounds per centum on the amount realized by the trustee after the deduction of the expenses of realization, subject to the creditors, by resolution, fixing a higher commission on the collection of book debts; or

where the trustee carries on the business of the debtor, one pound per centum on the turnover of the capital of the business.”

Motion (by Senator Wilson) proposed -

That the amendments be agreed to

Senator THOMPSON:
Queensland

– This amendment is faulty in construction, and, in practice, may be capable of wrong application. I can conceive of a case where the expenses of realization might be so heavy that there would bevery little prospect of the trustee getting his commission, but I think that is provided for in other clauses, and I dare say that no serious disability will be suffered by a trustee. But paragraphb is not well expressed. It provides that the remuneration of a trustee who carries on the business of a debtor shall be £1 per centum on the turnover of the capital of the business. The following form would be much better: -

Where the trustee, by direction of the creditors carries on the business of the debtor, in addition a commission of £1 per centum on the turnover of sales made in the ordinary course of carrying on the business.

In practice what has been done hitherto will, I have no doubt, be adhered to, so the trustee will not suffer. If I were to move the amendment I have indicated, though I dare say it would be accepted, it might jeopardize the passage of the bill. Therefore, I shall content myself by directing attention to the matter.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I have considered the clause very carefully, and I am satisfied that it will meet all requirements. For the realization of a business the trustee’s remuneration will be £5 per centum, and for the conduct of the business, £1 per centum on the turnover. There is also the collection of book debts, for which it is customary to allow 10 per cent., but this commission will not be paid in addition to 1 per cent. on the turnover of the capital of a business. The amendment I think is an equitable arrangement.

Motion agreed to.

Clause 191 (Bar to proceedings under part XI.).

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - Insert the following new clause : - “191a. - (1.) A deed of arrangement to which this Part applies shall comply with the following conditions : -

It shall contain in a first schedule annexed a true and particular account of all the property of which the debtor or any person in trust for him is possessed, or to which he or any such person is entitled legally or equitably in possession, reversion, remainder or expectancy, so far as the debtor can set it forth, except such articles of household furniture, wearing apparel of the debtor and his family, tools or implements of his trade and other like necessaries (not exceeding in the whole the value of Fifty pounds) as the debtor selects, and such other household furniture as a majorityof the creditors may by resolution determine;
It shall contain in a second schedule annexed the names of the several creditors of the debtor and the several amounts due or supposed to be due to them respectively; and
A declaration by the debtor in the prescribed form verifying the contents of the schedules shall be attached to the deed. “ (2.) The trustee (if any) of such a deed shall be a person registered under Part VIII. of this Act as qualified to act as a trustee. “ (3.) Notwithstanding anything contained in the next succeeding section, the Court may, after the execution of such a deed, on the application of the trustee (if any) or of any creditor who has assented to the deed, subject to such conditions (if any) as the Court thinks fit to impose, order a stay of proceedings in any action, execution, distress for rent or other legal process, in respect of any debt or liability which would be provable in the bankruptcy if a sequestration order were made against the debtor, and may at any time in its discretion set aside the order. “ (4.) The order while in force shall have the effect of staying the proceedings pending the registration of the deed and its receiving the assent of the requisite majority in number and value of the creditors within the prescribed time. “ (5.) The form in the first part of the Third Schedule to this act may be used for any deed to which this part applies, and when so used shall be of the same effect as if it were in the form of a deed in the second part of that schedule.”

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

After careful consideration the clause, in the form in which it left the Senate, was found to be unworkable. There is no new principle involved in the new clause.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I consider that this amendment is not warranted, and call attention particularly to sub-clause a. Bankruptcy sometimes overtakes the artisan as well as the wealthy man. To put down the sum of £50 to cover all the contingencies referred to in the sub-clause is ridiculous. The kit of tools required by a carpenter could not be purchased to-day under £75 or £100. If £50 only is allowed, a man may have his tools of trade taken from him, and he will thus be unable to recover himself. He may have become bankrupt through circumstances entirely beyond his control, but under this new clause he would have no means of remedying his unfortunate positon.

Senator Benny:

– In some of the states a man is allowed to retain tools to the value of only £30.

SenatorNEEDHAM.- This is a national bill, and justice should be meted out to all concerned. I appeal to the committee to make the sum £100so that an artisan may have an opportunity to recover himself should he unfortunately become bankrupt. In addition to tools of trade, household furniture, and wearing apparel are included in the sub-clause.

Senator Wilson:

– This clause deals only with deeds of arrangement, and not with ordinary cases of bankruptcy.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– The effect is the same, even if it is a deed of arrangement. A man should be given a chance to make a living and to meet his liabilities. Honorable senators will recognize that to allow £50 for household furniture and wearing apparel for the debtor and the members of his family, as well as for tools and implements of trade, is altogether imadequate. I move -

That the House of Representatives’ amendment be’ amended by leaving out the word “ Fifty,” paragraph o, sub-section 1, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words ‘’ One hundred.”

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I make a final appeal to the Minister to accept my amendment. Part XI. of the bill deals with bankruptcy, when the debtor is actually in the insolvency court. I find that clause 163 has the same wording in relation to bankruptcy that the amendment proposed by another place has in regard to a deed of arrangement. My request is not unreasonable. I think we should give these men a chance to make a fresh start in life. It cannot be contended that £50 will cover the value of household goods, wearing apparel, and implements of trade.

Question - That the word proposed to be left out be left out (Senator Needham’s amendment of the amendment) - put. The committee divided.

AYES: 9

NOES: 13

Majority . . . . 4

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved an the negative.

Amendment of the amendment negatived.

Motion agreed to.

Amendments in clauses 192 and 193 agreed to.

Clause 197 (Contents of Register).

House of Representatives’ Amendment. - Add the following sub-clause: - “ (2.) Notice of the registration of every deed stating the particulars mentioned in the last preceding sub-section shall be lodged in the office of the Registrar of Titles, or Registrar-General or other proper officer of each State and in such other places as are prescribed.”.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

As a deed of arrangement may affect the title to a property registered in a State Titles Office, it is desirable that notice thereof shall be given to the registrar of titles. The amendment provides for this.

Motion agreed to.

Amendments in clause 199 agreed to.

Clause 200 (Provisions for protection of trustees under void deeds).

House of Representatives? Amendment. - Add the following sub-clause: - “ (2.) When a deed of arrangement is void by virtue of this Act for any reason other than that it has not been registered within the time allowed for the purpose by this Part, the trustee shall, as soon as practicable after he has become aware that the deed is void, give notice in writing thereof to each creditor whose name and address he knows and file a copy of the notice with the Registrar, and, if he fails [to do so, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding Twenty pounds.”.

Motion (by Senator Wilson) -

That the amendment be agreed to.

Senator McDOUGALL:
New South Wales

– I notice that the words “ not exceeding £20 “ appear in the amendment made by another place. In other parts of the bill the words “Penalty, Five pounds” are used. A little while ago, when I endeavoured to provide in a bill that a penalty should “ not exceed “ a certain amount, I was informed that other legislation provided that where the words “Penalty, Five pounds” occurred in an act, it was to be interpreted as being the maximum penalty only. I want to know why the words “not exceeding” are used in this clause and not in other penalty clauses.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– It is provided in the Acts Interpretation Act that where the words “Penalty. Five pounds,” or whatever the amount may be, occur in a separate line at the end of a section, the amount mentioned is to be interpreted as being the maximum penalty. I am informed that if the amount of the penalty is. provided in the body of a section the words “ not exceeding” must precede it if it is intended that the amount mentioned is to be regarded as the maximum penalty.

SenatorFINDLEY (Victoria) [5.18]. - The explanation is clear enough, but are we to understand that in all the legislation we have passed this fine distinction has been made? Are we to understand that if a prosecution is taken in hand, it may break down because a lawyer can point to the omission of the words “ not exceeding.”

Senator Pearce:

– The case would not break down. If the magistrate convicted the person accused, he would have no discretion, but would be compelled to impose the penalty provided in the body of the section.

Senator FINDLEY:
VICTORIA

– Would a case break down if the words “ not exceeding “ were omitted, not from the actual section, but from another part of theact?

Senator Pearce:

– The Acts Interpretation Act provides for such cases.

Senator FINDLEY:

– Then it would appear that to prove a case in court it will be necessary to produce the Acts Interpretation Act. The verbiage is unnecessary, and should be eliminated.

Senator McDOUGALL:
New South Wales

– I drew attention to this matter with the object of getting an explanation from the Minister, but up to the present that has not been given. The measure has been before the Senate for about seventeen years, but it passed through another place like a flash of lightning. It was my intention to move to strike out the words “not exceeding,” because I was told in connexion with another bill that the words were unnecessary, and that the Acts Interpretation Act covered the point that I had raised. All I have to say is that if the words are not necessary when the penalty is stated at the end of a clause, they are not necessary in the body of a clause.

Motion agreed to.

Further amendment in clause 200 agreed to.

Amendments in clauses 201, 203, 206, and 208 agreed to.

Resolutions reported; report adopted.

page 4664

APPROPRIATION BILL (1924-25)

In committee (Consideration resumed from 18th September, vide page 4489) :

– It is a miserable place.

Senator Gardiner:

– The food supplied is of the “best quality.”

Senator PEARCE:

In reply to the other question raised by Senator Foll, I may state that apparently the South Australian Government was not throwing open for lease the pastoral lands alongside lie line. The Commonwealth Government made numerous representations to the South Australian Government to have those lands surveyed and thrown open for selection. I am in the happy position that I can inform the honorable senator that at present those lands are open for selection, and are being taken up. Mr. Bell has informed me that the result has been an appreciable increase in the traffic on the transcontinental railway. That fact, combined with the development in land settlement that is proceeding in Western Australian territory, made the receipts from the line during the last quarter, for the first time in the history of the line, greater by a few thousand pounds than the working expenses. If honorable senators consult the railway report, which was tabled to-day, they will see that there has been a gradual improvement during the last two or three years. It is hoped that if that improvement continues, and land settlement expands, the line will before long be a payable proposition.

Senator Foll stated that the “Western Australian Government had accepted the obligation ‘ to build a 4-ft. 8J-in. gauge railway from Kalgoorlie to Fremantle. That is not quite the position. An offer was made by a Western Australian Government some years ago, before the transcontinental railway was authorized by the Commonwealth Parliament, that if the Commonwealth would agree to construct a transcontinental railway from Port Augusta to Kalgoorlie within a given time - which was named - it would undertake to construct a railway of the same gauge from Kalgoorlie to Fremantle. The transcontinental’ railway was not constructed within the period fixed by the offer, which therefore lapsed.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I should like some information from the Minister (Senator Pearce) with regard to the line between Yass Junction and Canberra. For a time I believed that it was the work of the New South Wales Government to construct a line from the main- southern line to the boundary of the Federal Capital Territory. From recent reports in the press, however, it; appears that there is .a probability of the Commonwealth being asked to defray the cost of the construction of that line. If the Commonwealth is- toconstruct it, is it proposed to impose what is known as a betterment tax - a somewhat one-sided scheme of land value taxation which, though unsatisfactory, is better than no land value taxation?

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Home and Territories · Western Australia · NAT

– On the one hand, the Government has the recommendation of the Public Works Committee that the line should not, at present, be constructed from Yass to Canberra, but that a continuation from Queanbeyan to the. civic centre at Canberra should be undertaken. On the other hand, there is the resolution of the House of Representatives- that the line from Yass to Canberra should be constructed. The Government has not yet had time to investigate these conflicting recommendations and to decide which it shall ask Parliament to approve. It has not concluded that the time has arrived for the construction of the line from Yass to Canberra. Whatever decision is come to, the Government will have to seek parliamentary authority before it can act.

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

.- The statement of the Minister (Senator Pearce) that there was not a direct promise by Western Australia- to continue the 4-ft. 8-in. gauge railway from Kalgoorlie to Fremantle -was a shock and a surprise to me. I believed that not only was a promise given, but that there was an understanding within recent years that the Commonwealth should find the money for the construction of that line. I was under the impression that when the Commonwealth spent from £4,000,000 to £6,000,000 on the transcontinental railway Western Australia would immediately link up.

I rose chiefly to refer to the extraordinary attack that has been made upon the South Australian railway refreshment rooms on the East- West line. I do not know the purpose of the. attack. I went over that line quite recently, and the food everywhere seemed good. There was nothing to justify the statements that were made in this committee to-day. I feel sure that when Senator Pearce reads the proof of his speech he will be surprised at the statements that he has made. I can quite understand that nothing seems good after the excellent catering provided on the Commonwealth section of the East-West Railway. Senator Foll seemed to think when I questioned him about South Australia having to contribute towards the construction of the Grafton to South Brisbane railway, that I was obliged to take part in the game of securing for New South Wales advantages at the expense of other states.

Senator Foll:

– I was prevented by the Temporary Chairman from . speaking fully on that point.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Senator McDougall:

– I did not prevent the honorable senator from making an allusion to the railway to which he was referring. I allowed him to speak on it for fully two minutes before directing him not to discuss it further.

Senator GARDINER:

– These estimates provide for the salaries of quite a’ number of officers who will be engaged on building that railway.

Senator Pearce:

– Those officers are nearly all employed at Canberra.

Senator GARDINER:

– Before proceeding with the construction of this railway, the Commonwealth will be guided by reports from these officers. Therefore, I think we are justified in discussing the proposed railway from Grafton to South Brisbane. I shall never participate in efforts made by honorable . senators to get from other states something for the benefit of their own states: New South Wales and Queensland are wealthy enough to build this projected railway themselves, and it is not fair that they should expect other states to share in the cost of a line which will prove of such advantage to themselves.

SenatorFoll. - I admit that, but it is not a new situation.

Senator GARDINER:

– The sooner we get away from the present system of calling upon other states to come to the assistance of any particular state the better. I see no reason why New South Wales should expect a small contribution from Tasmania, Western Australia, Queensland, or South Australia towards the building of a railway within its own borders, or the conservation of water in the Murray Valley. Commonwealth money should not be expended on such works. The Commonwealth Government has sufficient functions to carry out without embarking on such undertakings. If it devoted its energies to a reduction of the war debt it would be doing better work than by attempting to help the states out of their present difficulties, or to assist New South Wales and Queensland to build a railway. I could understand the Commonwealth intervening if the proposal were to make a military railway running from Brisbane through to Perth, but it is wrong for the states to ask the Commonwealth Treasurer for money for purely state purposes. My voice will always be raised against the continuance of such a pernicious principle.

Senator FOLL:
QUEENSLAND · NAT; UAP from 1931

.- I do not think it unreasonable to ask the Minister representing the Minister for Works and Railways to give us some outline of the progress of the work that is now being undertaken at Canberra. Neither is it unreasonable to ask if it is possible for the Government to mention some date upon which Parliament is likely to meet in its own home at Canberra. Many honorable senators will be obliged to make considerable alterations in their arrangements to fit in with the new conditions, and, in the circumstances, we should like to have some notice from the Government of the day as to when we are likely to be called upon to effect those alterations.

Sitting suspended from 6.30 to 8 p.m.

Senator FOLL:

– If this information can be supplied, honorable senators may be able to make their arrangements well ahead. I should also like to know what progress has been made with the erection of the hostels and the probable charge that will be made to those who will make use of that accommodation. Information supplied to the Public Works Committee, of which until recently I was a member, suggested that owing to the high cost of construction and expensive furnishings, the tariff would be very high; so high, indeed, that it may be necessary for Parliament, at an early date, to authorize substantial increasesin the allowances paid to members.

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Home and Territories · Western Australia · NAT

– I am able to report that substantial progress isbeing made with the erection of the public buildings in Canberra. Honorable senators will have seen in the Library a photograph of the provisional Parliament House. At the end of last month the walls were up to the roof level. I understand that the building is now ready for roofing, and that it will be ready for the meeting of the new Parliament. Concerning the hostel, I have recently been making inquiries in order to get a definite date for its occupation, because upon this will depend the date of the first sale of Canberra city leases. Accommodation must be available for intending buyers. The Works and Railways Department informs me that the hostel will be ready by about the end of November. We are now inviting applications for the leasing of the place. Until an offer has been accepted we shall not be able to indicate what the tariffwill be. I regret that I am unable to supply the figures dealing with the cost of the hostel. That is provided for in the Loan Bill, and as

I did not expect the question to he asked to-night I did not come prepared with the information. However, I shall endeavour to obtain it, and let the honorable senator know. The Public Works Committee has had the erection of the secretariat building under consideration. I understand that a recommendation has been made, and that the necessary steps to authorize its construction are being taken in another place. As thi3 will not be a very large building, it ought to be ready when Parliament meets at Canberra.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I listened with interest to the remarks made by honorable senators about the various railways under the control of the Commonwealth, and I was particularly interested in the statement that the East-West line, during the last quarter for which returns have been made available, was paying working expenses. That statement, however, hardly sets out the position. The railway cost the Commonwealth over £6,000,000, upon which there is an interest charge of at least 4J per cent, or 5 per cent. It ought to be made clear that whilst the railway may be paying working expenses, it certainly is not paying interest on capital cost. In my opinion the time has come when the Government should seriously consider taking over control of the whole of the railways in the Commonwealth. It is unfair that we should be saddled with some of the worst-paying propositions, and that the best-paying railways should be in the hands of state authorities. There is now a proposal to vote a sum of £3,500,000 for the construction of a new railway line between Kyogle and South Brisbane.

Senator Reid:

– That will be a good investment.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– It would be a much better investment if the Commonwealth imposed a betterment tax, under which land-owners benefited by the line would contribute towards the revenue.

Senator Reid:

– What about a betterment tax on the East- West railway ?

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– If the- principle were applied to that line, the tax imposed on land for 25 to 30 miles on each side of the railway would be only a nominal impost and would be amply justified, as also would a betterment tax on the suggested line from Yass Junction to Canberra. . Since the railways, at present controlled by the Commonwealth are likely to be non-paying for some considerable time, the Commonwealth should take steps immediately to take over control of all the railways in Australia and proceed with the unification of gauges, not in piecemeal fashion, but in a general way. When I was at Port Augusta some years ago, I saw in store there a large number of armchairs- of antiquated design. Since then several of the chairs have been placed in the Commonwealth offices in Sydney. I hope that the same kind of furniture will not be foisted on members of Parliament at Canberra. They are not to be found in any of the departmental offices. Apparently they are retained for the use of Federal members. I trust that when the furnishing of the Federal members’ rooms at Canberra is under consideration, furniture of a more up-to-date and more suitable design will be chosen.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I was interested in the remarks of the Minister (Senator Pearce) concerning the progress that is being made with the erection of public buildings at Canberra. I have been there on one or two occasions as a member of the Public Accounts Committee. On the last occasion I was amazed at the evidence of all-round progress. The rate of progress on the provisional parliamentary building gives the lie direct to those who declare that day labour is slow labour. The same remarks apply to the work on the hostel. I believe that the provisional Parliament House will be ready by the end of 1925, but it must be remembered that we shall have to provide for a large number of officials. If the Government” intends that Parliament shall meet at Canberra immediately after the next federal election, it will have to expedite the work of providing the necessary accommodation.

Senator PEARCE:

– A large number of cottages and another hostel are being erected.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– Apart from No. 1 hostel,- the only other hostel is No. 3, which is intended for officers, and will accommodate only about 60 to 100 persons.

Senator PEARCE:

– A competition recently closed for a number of cottages.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– I saw the cottages provided for the workmen, but they are not very creditable from the point of view of the accommodation provided. A number of wooden huts built by Hudson have been brought from Sydney for the artisans engaged on the building of Parliament House, but those huts are no credit to the Commonwealth Government. As they have no brick chimneys there is no place for a fire in the winter time. While at Canberra, I visited the grave of General Bridges, and adjacent to it I noticed the residence provided for the five civil employees of the Duntroon College. These men had their wives and five children with them. The word “ hovel “ would be a dignified term to apply to their place of abode. It is wrong that the civil employees of the college should be housed in such a place. The establishment contains five families, but it is not fit for a man and his wife, without children. The Minister should see that something is done at once to provide healthy accommodation for these employees. Their present accommodation is not fit to house a dog.

Senator COX:
New South Wales

– One cannot wonder that the EastWest railway does not pay. It practically starts nowhere, and ends nowhere. The Government should build a line from Hay to Port Augusta, so that the states conic connect their railways with it. As in a few years’ time the Murray valley will be. thickly populated, the line would soon be a paying one. We cannot expect any line to pay while it is incomplete. In a very short time we shall also have the KyogleBrisbane line, which will pass through some of the finest country in Australia. I do not agree with Senator Gardiner that that is not a national line. The states have a railway to Murwillumbah, and another from Coolangatta to Brisbane, which serve their purpose. The Kyogle to Brisbane railway, being a national line, should be constructed forthwith of .4 ft. 8^ in. gauge. Personally, I should never build the North-South railway, but should prefer to construct a line from Bourke to connect with the present line running south from Darwin. That line also should be of 4 ft. 8J in. gauge. The Queensland lines could then be continued out to meetit, and it would be only a short time be fore we had a 4 ft. 8J in. line to Darwin. Such a line would pass through some of the best sheep and cattle country in Australia. At present, because the line from Port Augusta to Kalgoorlie is incomplete, the’ expenses are much greater than they should be. The Government should proceed at once with the line from Port Augusta to Hay.

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Home and Territories · Western Australia · NAT

– I promised the committee to give some information regarding the hostel at Canberra. The estimated cost of the hostel is £120,000, while the furnishings are estimated to cost between £15,000 and £20,000.

Senator FOLL:
Queensland

.- When I was at Canberra about ten months ago, I noticed that the Public Works Department was covering over some of the brickwork in the buildings with rough-cast, and then colouring it white. Judging by appearances, the bricks made at Canberra are equal to the best obtainable in Australia, and one would imagine that they could be used to make both a pleasing, and a satisfactory job. I cannot, therefore, understand why the Works and Railways Department should cover them with rough-cast. Looking down on the city f from the surrounding country, the houses appear to be like a lot of glorified cowsheds. Adb fu from their unsatisfactory appearance, the upkeep of these whitewashed houses is greater than if they, were constructed of struck brickwork. I consider that handsome brick cottages have been spoiled by this action of the department.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Bungalows and cottages, when constructed of bricks, should have cavity walls and struck brickwork. These abortions - I can call them nothing else - which have been foisted upon Canberra by the officers of the department, are a standing disgrace to the Federal Capital. I can find no words strong enough to condemn them. Brickwork, when properly struck, is always pleasing to look upon. We know that rough-cast is frequently used to cover up poor materials or bad workmanship, but that is not the case at Canberra. Apart from their unsightly appearance, the cottages have been badly designed, both as regards their external appearance and their internal arrangement. I shall welcome the day when the Government makes building sites at Canberra, available, so that other people may have the opportunity to show what can be done with the bricks produced there. From the way in which they are covered up, one would imagine that they are of inferior quality, but we know that that is not so. I trust that the “Minister will see that work of this kind is stopped immediately.

Senator Foll:

– Rough-cast increases both the cost of construction and of upkeep.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– It enables inferior or careless brickwork to be covered up, so that it will escape detection. I cannot understand how any officer who knows his business can tolerate such work. It is a wonder that rough-cast has not been used in connexion with the new Houses of Parliament. I understand, however, that some departure from clean struck brickwork is contemplated even there. If so, it is a very great mistake.

Senator Pearce:

– - Parliament House is all struck brickwork.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I am glad to hear that statement from the Minister. I hope that as a result- of the comments made this evening the Minister will see that the present practice is discontinued immediately.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Postmaster-General’ s Department.

Proposed vote, £8,208,930.

Senator DUNCAN:
New South Wales

– Has the Postmaster-General (Mr. Gibson), since his return from Great Uri tain, given the Minister (Senator Crawford) any information in relation to the new agreement entered into with the cable companies? As the published reports concerning the proposed agreement do not appear satisfactory, I should like to have some authentic details from the Minister.

Senator CRAWFORD:
Honorary Minister · QueenslandHonorary Minister · NAT

– I am not in a position to give the honorable senator any detailed information at this juncture, but I shall endeavour later to supply him with particulars. I understand an arrangement has been made for a reduction in the cable rates as from the 1st November of this year.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of Health.

Proposed vote, £124,480.

Senator GRAHAM:
Western Aus tralia

– I desire to express my dissatisfaction with the amounts paid and promised by the Government for losses incurred in connexion with the rinderpest outbreak in Western Australia. As this is a national matter, there has been a considerable agitation to endeavour to get the Commonwealth Government to bear the whole of the loss incurred, as it is thought that the expense should not be borne by the people of Western Australia. The Commonwealth has agreed to pay onehalf of the value of the stock destroyed, and the amount paid to date is £14,448. Approximately £6,000 to £7,000 has still to be paid, the accounts for which have not yet been received. After the outbreak occurred an agreement was entered into between the Commonwealth Government and the then Premier of Western Australia, Sir James Mitchell, under which compensation was to be paid on a 50-50 basis. The sum of £7.000 was granted by the> Government, of which only £4,500 has been paid, leaving £2,500 which, in addition to the £10,000 also promised for economic losses, and which has not yet been paid, brings the total up to £12,500. The Minister for Home and Territories (Senator Pearce) was deputed by the Cabinet to visit Western Australia to assist in stemming the tide of this dread disease, in order to protect, not only the herds in. Western Australia, but also those in the eastern states. Up to a certain point the Minister rendered very valuable service, but the Government and the people of Western Australia consider that as it was a national matter the Commonwealth Government should have defrayed the whole of the expenditure in meeting compensation claims. The Government promised to pay £10,000 for economic losses, but the claims received by the department under this heading total £44,000, of which the sum actually paid to date amounts to only £19,000. Considering the unsatisfactory state of the finances of Western Australia, it is the duty pf tha Commonwealth Government to assist the people in that state by paying the full amount. In order to test the feeling of the committee, I move -

That Hie House of Representatives be requested to reduce the proposed vote by £1.

I submit this motion as an instruction to the Government to provide that the whole of the losses be paid by the Commonwealth authorities.

Senator FINDLEY:
Victoria

– Under item 3, in sub-division 3 of division 121 is an amount of £5,000 for “investigation of cancer disease.” Is the Minister (Senator Wilson) in a position to state the nature of the investigations to be made?

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– Honorable senators will realize the importance of research work in relation to cancer. As this is a new item of expenditure, I cannot state definitely in what direction action will be taken. The procedure to be adopted will depend upon the advice of professional men.

– It is easy to say that a further sum should be paid, but the Government have to consider the interests of other taxpayers in the Commonwealth. The Government in the first place appointed a committee to control the distribution of £10,000, but as that was considered unsatisfactory, the Government requested the Western Australian Government to appoint a committee to allot the £10,000. Notwithstanding this, a request was received from the Western Australian authorities to the effect that the Commonwealth should appoint the committee to allot payments. During the influenza epidemic, the Western Australian Health authorities quarantined the passengers and crew of a trans-Australian train and utilized the cars, including the dining car, for victualling arrangements. As a result of this action, the Commonwealth preferred a claim against the Government of Western Australia for £3,113 12s. 5d., the details of which were as follows : -

The matter was subject of much correspondence between the two Governments, and the Government of Western Australia paid £849 13s.1d., leaving a loss to the CommonwealthRailways Commissioner of £2,263 19s. 4d.

Senator Kingsmill:

– An alleged loss.

Senator WILSON:

– An actual loss. These figures have been taken from statements in the department. Cabinet directed that, although the Commonwealth was clearly in the right, no useful result would follow from extreme measures. I want honorable senators to see the inconsistency of Western Australia. That state took possession of a train and used our staff, saying “ We are doing this for quarantine purposes, and the Commonwealth will have to pay for it.” When the Commonwealth Government had to deal with animals in Western Australia, that state said, “You bear the whole of the expense.” I inform Senator Graham that an amount of £36,500 has been made available by the Commonwealth.

Senator Graham:

– Does that include the sum which the Western Australian Government has already received 1

Senator WILSON:

– Certainly. I say to the honorable senator again that the Government and the department are exceedingly anxious to do the fair thing. The Government appointed a committee, but it was not acceptable to the Government of Western Australia. It then endeavoured, unsuccessfully, to induce the Western Australian Government to conduct the inquiry. I urge honorable senators to leave this matter with the department. It will have to make the next move. I give my assurance that it will do the just and the equitable thing.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator Duncan:

– The honorable senator has already shown the difference between what he claims and what Senator Needham claims. His is a reasonable claim.

Senator KINGSMILL:

Senator GARDINER:

– I understand that something more to come will bring the total up to £39,000, so the difference is hardly worth debating. But there is an important principle involved in this question. When the matter came before Parliament several months ago I contended, without any suggestion of party feeling, that the obligations of the Government should be so clearly recognized that self-interest would induce people to report immediately the outbreak of any disease that threatened the interests of the Commonwealth.

Senator KINGSMILL:
Western Australia

– Perhaps I may be permitted, as briefly as possible, again to explain my attitude to Senator Gardiner. I have spoken three or four times on the rinderpest outbreak, and possibly what I am saying now will not be the last word on this subject. This is a matter which, if properly arranged, should settle itself automatically. The direct losses in any case should be paid by the Commonwealth, but not the indirect losses, which in this case are referred to as the economic losses. All losses are economic. No Government should be expected to pay for indirect losses. A man who has had his cattle slaughtered or property destroyed is, perhaps, unable to pay his bills. His creditors are indirect losers, as also are their creditors. Thus the effect is felt to the uttermost edges of the community. This is a matter that should be simple of adjustment. As a last word, let me say to Senator Drake-Brockman, and also to Senator Gardiner, that I did not draw the cartoon in question.

Senator FOLL:
QUEENSLAND · NAT; UAP from 1931

Senator JOHN D MILLEN:
TASMANIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I have listened with considerable interest to the speeches that have been delivered on this subject. I cannot but feel that our quarantine methods in Australia are very unsatisfactory. We have had the misfortune to have an outbreak of rinderpest in Western Australia. Had the tsetse-fly, with its capacity for inoculating our people with the trymponosome - the causative agent of that dread scourge known as sleeping sickness, which produced such devastation in South Africa - come among us, the position would have been much worse. It is absolutely essential that, in matters of quarantine, we should be in the position to deal with any outbreak. The Govern ment should immediately take this matter in hand, and place the quarantine on an effective basis. One step has been taken, but, if necessary, 100 steps should be taken to make the laws effective. I agree with the statements that have been made from the Ministerial bench regarding payment for the direct losses sustained by reason of the rinderpest outbreak in Western Australia. That is a sound economic principle. I remember that, some years ago, I did some analytical work for a milk vendor, and had to attend a case in the court. In making certain observations in relation to the case on behalf of my client, I showed that one of the biggest dairying industries in England adopted the practice that, where any of their suppliers had a cow in his. herd which showed a positive result from a tuberculin test, and he immediately notified the factory, he was then credited with the amount of milk or cream he would have obtained from that cow. so that he should not be the loser by his action, and the factory would maintain the purity of its supply. That is a sound principle. I know of a person in Tasmania who had an orchard of peach trees from which he obtained his livelihood. An inspector said that the trees were affected with the San Jose scale, and that the trees must all be rooted out. He was an old man, but he received no compensation at all. I do not think that that was right, nor do I think the sugges-. tion made by Senator Poll is right. If a man’s capital invested in the cotton industry is destroyed, as the result of action taken for the eradication of a pest, he should be compensated. We need to be very careful how we deal with this matter. I can readily understand that, if it were dealt with in a wholesale way, the £62,000.000 which the Commonwealth annually receives in revenue would not be sufficient to compensate the whole of the people of Australia for indirect losses due to these visitations. In determining the compensation to be paid in connexion with the outbreak of rinderpest in Western Australia, those who suffered as a result of it should not be over-generously treated, but they should be justly treated in respect of their direct economic losses. The Senate should be concerned, not so much with the payment of a few thousand pounds to sufferers from the outbreak of rinderpest in Western Australia, but with the far more important question of whe ther or not the Government is going to make quarantine effective in Australia. Many pests might be introduced inimical to life, to economy, to agriculture, and other industries, and unless such matters are dealt with carefully, soundly, . and strongly, apart from anything which the Government may have to pay in the way of compensation, the results may. have a very serious effect upon the commercial life of Australia and upon Australian civilization. I could quote many instances from history of the disastrous effects of the admission into a country of pests and diseases. We know what happened to the Greeks, andhow they went down as a nation. God forbid that we should go down as a nation in the same way. Our people must be prepared to do the right thing, and should demand from the Government an effective system of quarantine and public health administration. The rinderpest outbreak in Western Australia was a. very serious matter for those who suffered directly because of it, but surely it should be regarded as an important lesson to Australia. It might be Tasmania’s turn to-morrow, and New South Wales’ turn next day. One cannot tell where a similar outbreak may occur. We need to consider whether we are making use as we ought to do of all the resources of science to protect us in these matters. If we were prepared to deal with them in a thoroughly scientific and economic way, it would be unnecessary for the Senate to consider such votes as that now under discussion. I repeat that we are not so much concerned with the outbreak of rinderpest in Western Australia, as we are with the way in which the whole question of quarantine is dealt with, as it affects Australia as a whole.

Question - That the proposed vote, “ The Department of Health- £124,480,” be reduced by £1 (Senator Graham’s request) - put. The committee divided.

AYES: 10

NOES: 16

Majority. . 6

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Request negatived.

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

– There is one matter to which I wish to call direct attention in connexion with the vote for the Health Department. We have had a report from General Sir Neville Howse against the Spahlinger treatment for tuberculosis. No one questions the ability of Sir Neville Howse, but he has himself admitted that he is not qualified to speak very definitely about the treatment. Since his return to Australia there has appeared in the public press certain letters from a young man who was suffering from tubercolosis, but who, at his own expense, put himself under Mr. Spahlinger. His letters are full of hope and promise, and in connexion with them I wish in a very few woras to put a proposition before the Government. I suggest that it should agree to have six persons in different stages’ of the disease carefully examined here, and should then pay the expense of sending them to Europe to undergo the Spahlinger treatment and have them examined again on their return in order that we may know what results have followed from the treatment. That would be a simple, practical, and common-sense method of testing its efficiency. The letters to which I have referred were written by a young man who was a resident of the town of Parkes, in New South Wales. He went to Europe at considerable expense to undergo the Spahlinger treatment, and he writes in glowing terms of the effect of the treatment on himself and on others. Australia should not lag behind in this matter, as it seems to do in many others. We can understand that when scientists have to report upon the discoveries of other scientists they feel pretty safe in turning them down.If they turn out to be valuable, well and good, and if they do not, those who have adversely criticized them are justified. Amongst the many persons who suffer from tuberculosis it should not be very difficult to find half a dozen who would volunteer to go to Europe to undergo the treatment if their expenses were paid. If it were proved, as the result of such a test, that the treatment is a failure, that would in itself do an immense amount of good. If, on the contrary, it were proved, as the letters of the young man to whom I have referred would lead one to believe, that the treatment is successful in combating the disease, the hope and promise cif benefit which it would give to sufferers from the disease would justify the expenditure involved a. thousand times over. I do not expect the Minister representing the Minister for Health to stand up and say that the Government will accept my proposal, but I do ask him to undertake that the Government shall seriously consider it. If selected cases of various stages of the disease are carefully examined by medical men here, and are again examined after they have undergone the treatment on the other side of the world, we shall have something definite to go upon in coming to a conclusion as to the efficacy or otherwise of the Spahlinger treatment.

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

– The Government has already seriously considered the matter referred to by the honorable senator. It is exceedingly anxious to do all that is possible in connexion with it. I mentioned on a previous occasion the action we took in London. I had seen the honorable member for Calare (Sir Neville Howse), who had made certain inquiries in connexion with the Spahlinger treatment, and had reported to me. I freely admit that I am not personally qualified to express an opinion upon such a matter, but I went into the case carefully with Sir Neville Howse. Some time later I had an interview, lasting about an hour, with Mr. Spahlinger himself. I must admit that it was not very satisfactory. It was very difficult to get anything very definite from him. A few days later the Prime Minister from New Zealand brought the matter up at the Imperial Conference. The same anxiety waa exhibited there to do everything possible to secure an effective investigation of the treatment. It was not a question’ of money, but merely one of proof, that Mr. Spahlinger could substantiate the claims he made for his treatment. The matter- was not treated lightly. A committee was appointed to investigate it thoroughly and exhaustively, in the interests of the Empire. I was privileged to attend the meetings of the committee, in company with the High Commissioner. Many of the leading medical men of London were present at the meetings of the committee. The chairman made a statement as to the action, which he thought the committee should take. It was decided to adjourn for two or three days, to give him anopportunity to get, into touch with Mr. Spahlinger, and ask him to put his case before the committee. The expense was not in question. Australia was ready to defray its share of whatever expense might be incurred, as also were the other dominions. This man absolutely refused to attend the committee, to state his case, and put the facts before it. It was then definitely decided, and to this I agreed on behalf of Australia, that if the committee of health authorities of Great Britain made any progress in the investigation of the matter it should communicate with Australia. The British Government has authority to act for Australia in any financial arrangements which may be made, and if Spahlinger is willing to conduct test cases on our behalf, the British Government will be willing to make the necessary arrangements at the earliest possible moment. Dr. Cumpston, who will be visiting Great Britain in the course of a few weeks, will conduct further investigations, and continue the work already commenced, in the hope of obtaining necessary supplies of the serum to enable the authorities in Australia to conduct tests, even in a small way, in order to ascertain its efficacy.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Miscellaneous Services.

Proposed vote, £766,433.

Senator FOLL:
Queensland

.- In division No. 128a it is shown that £14,109 was spent last year in printing pamphlets, &c, in connexion with the British Empire Exhibition. Under the present system of advertising in the Commonwealth Gazette, many who would quote for printing contracts are unaware that tenders are being sought. As all the states are equally interested, greater publicity should be given.

Senator Pearce:

– There is no expenditure under that heading this year.

Senator FOLL:

– No. But expenditure on printing is incurred under other headings.

I should also like the Minister to explain whether it is the intention of the Government to make any overtures to the British Government in regard to the continuation of the Empire Exhibition. I understand there has been a certain amount of controversy in the British press concerning the re-opening of the exhibition. The Australian pavilion at Wembley has been of wonderful value to Australia as an advertising medium, and I trust that the Government will do everything in their power to influence the authorities in the direction I have indicated.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– It would, I think, suit the convenience of the committee if these services were taken in departments. On page 341 there is a number of items upon which I think we should have some information from the Minister. For instance, item No. 2, “ New Hebrides - Grant for special services, £1,300.” Although the amount is small, we should have some information as to how the money is expended, particularly as we receive reports from the islands that the administration is not all that some desire.

There is also a re-vote of the amount agreed to last year of £500 for the British Chamber of Commerce in Paris. Under our policy of protection, we impose heavy import duties upon goods arriving in this country from France, and it seems absurd to appoint commissioners to increase trade with the Commonwealth when we tax the goods from that country at a much heavier rate than those received from Great Britain.

Senator Foll:

– We want them to purchase our goods.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The honorable senator knows that owing to the present exchange position it is necessary to import goods in order to square the ledger. Under item No. 7, £800 is to be paid to the International Agricultural Institute of Rome. If we are to vote this sum we might reasonably ask why it is not necessary to vote a sum to similar institutes at Madrid, Vienna, Constantinople, and Moscow.

The sum of £1,000 is also provided in item No. 12 to assist the boy scout movement. I was under the impression that this association was developed and encouraged without Commonwealth or state aid. If we examined the different items in the Appropriation Bill we would probably find substantial sums proposed to be appropriated under other headings for the same purpose.

It is also proposed, under item No. 15, to pay £137,697 to the Central Wool Committee in respect of wool supplied for the local manufacture of wooltops. The action of the Commonwealth in connexion with the wool business has been most unfortunate, and this final payment which was not agreed to by the exPrime Minister is now to be made by the present administration. I trust the Minister will be able to give the committee some information upon these items.

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Home and Territories · Western Australia · NAT

, - In regard to the points raised by Senator Grant, I may explain that item No. 2, “New Hebrides grant for special services,” is to cover the salary of £750 and tropical and house allowance of £150 to the legal representative in the New Hebrides, Mr, Wallace, who watches the interests of the Commonwealth in connexion with land matters, and assists in the preparation and presentation to the joint courtof the New Hebrides of the claims of British settlers. It also covers rebates of one-half the Customs duties which the Commonwealth grant on maize grown by British settlers and imported into Australia from the New Hebrides. It will be noted that only £875 was expended in 1923-24, while £1,300 is provided for 1924-25. This is due to the fact that certain claims for reimbursement of Mr. Wallace’s salary were not received in time to permit of their payment during the last financial year, and it has been necessary to provide for them this year in addition to the current year’s commitments.

In regard to the grant to the British Chamber of Commerce, Paris, I may explain that the Australian Commercial Agent in Paris, Mr. C. H. Voss, occupies accommodation at the offices of the

British Chamber of Commerce. The. grant of £500 paid to. the Chamber of Commerce is in respect of his office accommodation and staff assistance rendered to him.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– What does he do?

Senator PEARCE:

– He encourages trade between France and Australia.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Does he submit reports ?

Senator PEARCE:

– Yes.

The amount of £800 to be paid to the International Agricultural Institute at Rome is to cover the. Australian contribution for the year. This institute carries out research work on all matters pertaining to agriculture, and issues bulletins and other publications of great interest to Australia as an agricultural country. The large excess of the expenditure for 1923-24 over the provision is accounted for by the payment of arrears for the previous financial year.

The amount of £1,000 provided for assisting the boy scout movement is to meet any expenditure that may be incurred in connexion with the issue, including packing, cartage, cleaning, &c, of stores and equipment loaned by the Defence Department to various boy scout organizations together with the return of the goods to the store.

In 1920 an agreement was arrived at by which certain wool from the then existing pool was supplied to the Colonial. Combing, Spinning and Weaving Company Limited for the manufacture of wooltops. A promise was given that the Government would allow the Australian wool-growers in respect of this wool the same proportion of profit as would have accrued had it formed part of the wool sold to the Imperial Government. In redemption of this promise it was agreed during 1923-24 to pay to the Central Wool Committee an amount of £275,394. Half of this amount was paid last year from the Treasurer’s Advance pending the supplementary Estimates, and the remaining half is provided on this year’s Estimates. A full statement of the circumstances in connexion with this transaction was given in the Prime Minister’s speech in Hansard of the 6th June, 1924, vide pages 1111-1119.

Senator WILSON (South Australia-

SenatorFollthat as much as possible of the printing work for the Empire Exhibition Commission is done in Australia.

Senator FOLL:
QUEENSLAND · NAT; UAP from 1931

– My suggestion was that the work should be distributed throughout the states.

Senator WILSON:
NAT

– The Commonwealth, Gazette circulates throughout the Commonwealth, and business men who are looking for government contracts refer to it. The cost of advertising in all the principal daily papers throughout the Commonwealth would be enormous.

Senator Foll:

– The period during which tenders remain open might be extended.

Senator WILSON:

– If the contract is big enough we advertise it in the different states, but the advertising of all work for the commission in the daily press of the capital cities would be both cumbersome and costly. A fair quantity of work has been done in New South Wales.

Senator Foll:

– Queensland received none of the printing.

SenatorWILSON. - Adelaide printers tried to get some of the work, but were beaten in open competition. In regard to the continuanco of the exhibition, I agree that it has done a great deal of good and has given a wonderful advertisement to Australia. Everybody who visited Wembley was astonished by what had been achieved for the credit of the Commonwealth. We have now to decide what shall be done with the Australian pavilion, which covers four acres of ground. Cables have been exchanged with the Imperial authorities, and only this week we asked for a concrete proposal for a continuation of the exhibition next year. If the exhibition can be continued at reasonable cost, and the British Government gives substantial support to the proposal, the Commonwealth Government will seriously considerwhether such a prolongation would be desirableon account of theadvertisement which Australia wouldreceive.

Senator Foll:

-What is the attitude of the other dominions’?

Senator WILSON:

– It is similar to thatof Australia. Some months ago we decided that we could not recommend the re-opening of the exhibition, and I think that Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, “and Newfoundland took the same view. Since that date there has beena change of opinion;. Australia occupies probably the most advantageous position at Wembley, and it would be a great pity if our pavilion had to be pulled down or lot before further use was made of it ‘for the benefit of this country. However, before we can seriously discuss the future- policy in regard to it, we must have a concrete -proposal before us. I hope to receive information on the subject next week, and to be able to make a statement to the Senate later.

Senator Needham:

– There is an item of £500 for relief work at Kendenup. Where is that place, and to what purpose is the money being applied?

Senator Pearce:

– The grant is for the relief of returned soldiers who were rendered destitute through difficulties experienced in connexion with the settlement at Kendenup, in Western Australia.

SenatorGardiner. - The committee should have full opportunity to discuss the payment of £137,697 to the Central Wool Committee, and I suggest that progress should bc reported at this stage.

Progress reported.

page 4687

ADJOURNMENT

Tuesday Sittings

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Home and Territories · Western Australia · NAT

. -In moving -

That the Senate do now adjourn

I remind honorable senators of the possibility that business from another place may make it necessary for the Senate to meet on Tuesday of next week.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Senate adjourned at 10.23 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 24 September 1924, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1924/19240924_senate_9_109/>.

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Senate24 September 1924

QUESTION

NORTHERN TERRITORY,

Senator GARDINER:NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator PEARCE:Minister of Home and Territories · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

QUESTION

SENATOR WILSON

Senator GARDINER:

PAPERS

QUESTION

REPRESENTATION OF TERRITORIES

Senator GRANT:NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Senator PEARCE:NAT

Senator Gardiner:

Senator PEARCE:

QUESTION

SOLDIER CANDIDATES FOR APPOINTMENTS

Senator HOARE:SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Senator PEARCE:NAT

DAIRY PRODUCE EXPORT CONTROL BILL

BANKRUPTCY BILL

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

Senator Gardiner:

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

Senator Gardiner:

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

Senator WILSON:Honorary Minister · South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator GARDINER:New South Wales

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator GARDINER:New South Wales

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator Needham:

Senator WILSON:

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator GARDINER:New South Wales

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:Western Australia

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator BENNY:South Australia

Senator NEEDHAM:Western Australia

Senator Benny:

Senator NEEDHAM:

Senator Wilson:

Senator WILSON:Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:Honorary Minister · South. Australia · NAT

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator THOMPSON:Queensland

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator O’LOGHLIN:South Australia

Senator WILSON:Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:Western Australia

Senator WILSON:Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

Senator THOMPSON:Queensland

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:Western Australia

Senator Benny:

Senator Wilson:

Senator NEEDHAM:

Senator WILSON:South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:Western Australia

Senator Wilson:

Senator NEEDHAM:

Senator THOMPSON:Queensland

Senator GARDINER:New South Wales

Senator Thompson:

Senator GARDINER:

Senator PEARCE:NAT

Senator GARDINER:

Senator Thompson:

Senator GARDINER:

Senator Reid:

Senator GARDINER:

Senator PEARCE:Western AustraliaMinister for Home and Territories · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:Western Australia

Senate
24 September 1924

Senator GARDINER:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator PEARCE:
Minister of Home and Territories · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

Senator HOARE:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator BENNY:
South Australia

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South. Australia · NAT

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator THOMPSON:
Queensland

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator O’LOGHLIN:
South Australia

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator WILSON:
Honorary Minister · South Australia · NAT

Senator THOMPSON:
Queensland

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator THOMPSON:
Queensland

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

Senator PEARCE:
Western AustraliaMinister for Home and Territories · NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator BENNY:
South Australia

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator McDOUGALL:
New South Wales

Senator WILSON:
South AustraliaHonorary Minister · NAT

Senator FINDLEY:
VICTORIA

Senator McDOUGALL:
New South Wales

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator PEARCE:
Western AustraliaMinister for Home and Territories · NAT

Senator FINDLEY:
Victoria

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Home and Territories · Western Australia · NAT

Senator FOLL:
QUEENSLAND · NAT; UAP from 1931

Senator REID:
Queensland

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN” (Senator McDougall:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Home and Territories · Western Australia · NAT

Senator FOLL:
Queensland

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Senator FOLL:
QUEENSLAND · NAT; UAP from 1931

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Senator McDougall:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator FOLL:
QUEENSLAND · NAT; UAP from 1931

Senator FOLL:
QUEENSLAND · NAT; UAP from 1931

Senator JOHN D MILLEN:
TASMANIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

Senator JOHN D MILLEN:
TASMANIA · NAT; UAP from 1931