Senate
3 August 1921

8^th Parliament · 1^st Session

PETITION
KINEMATOGRAPH FILMS
NEWS PAPER
QUESTION
- NAVIGATION ACT
QUESTION
- SENATE COMMITTEES
QUESTION
- IMPORTATION OF BANANAS
PAPERS
QUESTION
- POSITION IN RUSSIA
ANZAC TWEED INDUSTRY
- Copy of Agreement
CUSTOMS TARIFF BILL
ADJOURNMENT
- Tariff Debate

The President (Senator the Hon. T. Givens) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 10675

PETITION

Senator DUNCAN presented a petition from the Primary Producers Union of New South Wales, comprising the Graziers Association of New South Wales, the Stock-owners Association of New South Wales, the Farmers and Settlers Association of New South Wales, and the New South Wales Sheep-breeders Association, and signed on behalf of those organizations by their respective presidents, praying for the reduction of certain duties upon articles affecting chiefly the primary producers.

Petition received and read.

page 10675

KINEMATOGRAPH FILMS

Senator RUSSELL:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · VICTORIA · NAT

– On the 27th July

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Tradeand Customs the following questions: -

What were the total importations in lineal feet of kinematograph films for the year ending 30th June, 1921, from (a) United States, (b) Great Britain, (c) France, (d) other?

I am now able to furnish thehonorable senator with the following information : -

United States, 15,244,974 lineal feet; Great Britain, 1,518,814 lineal feet; France, 156,048 lineal feet; other, 319,070 lineal feet,

page 10675

NEWS PAPER

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

– On 28th July

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

asked the following questions: -

What was the total importation of news paper into the Commonwealth, in tons, and what was its approximate value, for the fiveyear periods ending 30th June, 1910; 30th June, 1915; 30th June, 1920, and for the year ending 30th June, 1921?
What proportion of imports was derived from (a) Great Britain, (b) Canada; (c) United States, (d) Scandinavia?

I am now in a position to furnish thehonable senator with the following information : -

Five years ending 30th June, 1910, £2,909,107; five years ending 30th June, 1915, £3,974,681; five years ending 30th June, 1920, £7,100,318; year ending 30th June, 1921, 1.853.944 cwt.. valued at £3.460.750.

page 10675

QUESTION

NAVIGATION ACT

SenatorROWELL. - On 15th July I asked the Leader of the Government in the Senate a question relating to passengers travelling by mail steamers wbo had booked their passages to Perth not being allowed to proceed on those steamers to the other States. Has the Minister any further information on the point?

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The following information is furnished by Mr. Percy Whitton,Comptroller-General of Customs : - “In response to the request contained in the Secretary’sminute of 18th July, 1921, forwarding attached extract from Hansard of 16th- July, 1921, relative to a question asked by SenatorRowell, and with reference to the promise made by the Minister for Repatriation that inquiries wouldbe made in the matter, the following information is submitted inorder that a reply may be made to Senator Rowell : -

The ruling given by departmental officers in Fremantle and other ports that passengers by an oversea mail steamer, which was not licenced to engage in thecoasting trade, could not becarried beyond the ports for which they originally bookedwas in accordance with an instruction issued in November last, based on advice by the Crown Law Department on the interpretation of the term “through ticket,” as used in section 7 of the Navigation Act, which defines engagement in the coasting trade.

The matter has been further considered by the Law officers, who now advise that “ through ticket “ includes a ticket issued from a port outside Australia to a port within Australia, and extended from that port to another port,. whether on the payment of the additional fare or not, if the person had not finally, left the ship at the port to which the ticket was originally issued.

Instructions in accordance with this opinion are beingissued to all ports, so that in future any passengers by incoming mail steamers who desire to extend their passages to ports beyond those for which they originally booked will be able to do so.

page 10676

QUESTION

SENATE COMMITTEES

Supply of Pencils

Senator DUNCAN:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– I should like to obtain information regarding the stationery and materials supplied to Senate Committees. I am a member of a Select Committee of the Senate which sat today. I notice that the lead pencils supplied to the whole of these Committees are called “ the Iron Duke,” and are made in Japan. Is it not possible to observe the spirit of the White Australia principle, which wehave so often indorsed, and to obtain, for the use of honorable members of the Senate at any Tate, lead pencils which are made by white labour?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– The matter is not within the control of Ministers. It may be a question for the President.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon T Givens:
QUEENSLAND

– Ishall give the matter my attention.

page 10676

QUESTION

IMPORTATION OF BANANAS

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

– On the 28th JulySenator Pratten asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs the following question: -

What were the importations of bananas in centals into Australia forthe five-year periods ending 30th June, 1910, 30th June, 1915, 30th June, 1920, and for the year ending 30th June, 1921.

I informed the honorable senator that the particulars were being obtained. I am now able to furnish the honorable senator with the following information:-

Five years ending 30th June, 1910, 701,451 centals; five years ending 30th June, 1915, 1,191,183 centals; five years ending 30th June, 1920,, 1,177,075 centals; year ending 30th June, 1921, . 107,368 centals. .

page 10676

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Arbitration (Public Service) Act. - Determination by the Arbitrator, &c. - No. 4 of 1921- Meat Inspectors’ Association, Commonwealth . of Australia.

Lands Acquisition Act. - Land acquired for Repatriation purposes at Bandwick, New South Wales.

New Guinea. - Ordinance No. 9 of 1921. - Expropriation (No. 2).

Public Service Act-

Appointments. - C. L. Biggs, Department of Health; L. 8. Elingender, Department of the Treasury.

Promotion of J. N. Dennis, Department of the Treasury.

page 10676

QUESTION

POSITION IN RUSSIA

Senator LYNCH:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I ask the Acting Leader of the Government in the Senate (Senator Pearce) whether he has received a request from the Brisbane Worker, the Sydney Worker, the Labour Call, and the Western Australian Worker, and other papers in this country, which have expressed admiration of the existing social order in Russia, that the Government should forward to the first Minister in Russia, Mr. Lenin, their congratulations on his success in emancipating the proletariat of that country. Ialso desire to ask whether the Government will indicate to those journals that it is ready to forward their congratulations, and also ask if they have prepared their messages?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– So far as I am aware, the Government have not been asked to do as the honorable senator suggests, and in this case it would be well to wait until we are asked.

Senator LYNCH:

– I now desire to ask whether the Government have considered, or will consider, the necessity of noting in conjunction with the Imperial Government with a view to assisting the famine-stricken people of Russia?

Senator PEARCE:

– I shall bring the matter raised by the honorable senator under the notice of the Cabinet.

ADJOURNMENT (Formal).

Anzactweed Industry.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon T Givens:

– I have received an intimation from Senator Elliott that he desires to move the adjournment of the Senate until 10 a.m. to-morrow in order to discuss a definite matter of urgent public importance, viz.:- “The neglect of the

Repatriation Department to secure the interests of the employees in the Hand Loom weaving business, known as the Anzac Tweed Industry, when handing over property of the Department, to certain trustees for the purpose of providing employment for returned soldiers.”

Four honorable senators having risen in their places,

Senator ELLIOTT:
Victoria

.- I move -

That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn until 10 a.m. on Thursday.

I trust I have not taken the Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) by surprise-

Senator Pearce:

– I rise to a point of order. The Minister for Repatriation (Senator E. D. Millen) informed me that at Senator Elliott had notified him that he intended to move the adjournment of the Senate to dis cuss this question. I thereupon asked the Minister for Repatriation to instruct his officers to supply me -with the file, which has been done. On perusing the file, I find that there appears to be a lawsuit pending in regard to this matter, as there is a communication from Messrs. Lynch, Macdonald, and Elliott, dated 25th February, 1921, headed “ Streeter versus Cull and others, Anzac Tweed Industry.” Attached to that letter is a copy of an agreement, and on the back of the agreement these words appear -

page 10677

ANZAC TWEED INDUSTRY

Copy of Agreement

In the Supreme Court, 1921, Herbert John Streeter, plaintiff, William Ambrose Cull, Gilbert Joseph Cullen Dyett, and Robert Alexandra Lowry, defendants. This is the copy agreement marked with the letter (a) produced, and shown to Herbert John Streeter, at the time of swearing his affidavit this 23rd day of February, 1921, before me, Harold Cohen, Commissioner of the Supreme Court of Victoria for taking affidavits.

I find further there is a letter to Messrs. Lynch, Macdonald, and Elliott, in reply to the other letter, which is also headed Streeter versus Cull and others - Anzac tweed industry.On noticing that, I asked Mr. Kealy, of the Repatriation Department, who brought the file to me, to ascertain if there was a case before the Court dealing with this matter, and Mr. Kealy gave me the following statement: -

I am informed by Mr. J. C. McPhee, Secretary to the Repatriation Commission, that, so far as the Court was concerned, it was left to the counsel for both parties to come to an agreement. Messrs. Derham, Robertson, and Derham, counsel for the trustees, have been in touch with counsel for the other side, but, so far, the case is not settled.

A. Kealy. 3rd August, 1921.

Matters awaiting the adjudication of a Court of law should not be brought forward in debate. This rule was observed by Sir Robert Peel and Lord John Russell, both by the wording of the speech from the Throne and by their procedure in the House; regarding Mr.

O’Connell’s case, and has been maintained by rulings from the Chair.

That ruling has been followed by innumerable others, and it is obviously a good one, because it would be highly improper for any person occupying a position of privilege in this Senate to seek to prejudice a case which is awaiting judgment by a Court. Therefore, as I gather from Senator Elliott’s remarks that the terms upon which this property was handed over is a matter that will come before a Court, by whom it will, no doubt, be weighed, and a judgment given, and as the case is still awaiting adjudication, following the practice of the House of Commons I must rule that the honorable senator is but of order.

Senator Lynch:

– Might not a trumpedup case hamper the freedom of Parliament?

The PRESIDENT:

– I have nothing to do with that.

page 10678

CUSTOMS TARIFF BILL

In Committee (Consideration resumed from 29th July, vide page 10672) :

Schedule. division iv.- agricultural products and groceries.

Item 46-

Egg albumen, dry, per lb., British, 2s. Gd.; intermediate and general, 3s.

Senator GARDINER:

– It will mean a reduction in the cost of living, because, if we allow British commodities to be imported free of duty, there will be so much more food and other materials available in this country at cheaper rates. As I intend to be consistent in my attitude throughout this schedule, I shall later move to assist the poultry raiser by reducing the duty on imported fowls’ food. We shall be assisting in the reduction of wages in Great Britain if . we refuse to transact business with the British manufacturer or impose such high Protective duties that it will not be profitable for the British manufacturer to send his goods to Australia, or for the Australian importer to purchase them. I believe that the interests of all parts of the British

Empire are linked together ; yet if a body of men had sat round a table for the purpose of devising a policy to injure the financial, industrial, and trading conditions of Britain, so far as theycan be injured by Australia, they could not have devised anything more effective than this Tariff.

Senator Crawford:

– The honorable senator is proposing to close up every Australian factory.

Senator GARDINER:

– The Australian industries can stand on their own legs. We have heard the Minister (Senator Russell) tell us how excellent the Australian factory operative is. I am not afraid of any Australian industrial establishment closing down because of a reduction of duties. I am told that the item now under consideration is used in connexion with the production of leather. Will tanneries close because a commodity used in theirprocesses of manufacture can be imported free of duty?

Senator Russell:

– This commodity is admitted free for tanning purposes, and yet the importations are nil.

Senator GARDINER:

– That is a return to intelligence on the Government’s part. In this instance they are assisting Australian industry by allowing a commodity used in a process of manufacture to be imported free of duty. I wish them to assist all our industries, and British industries also, by placing no obstacle upon trade between the Commonwealth and Great Britain, and that this Parliament shall not place any obstacles in the way of that trade. I therefore intend to move for a reduction of every duty which is proposed under the British preferential Tariff. I have not failed to notice that during the short period that I have been absent from the meetings of the Senate the Government have not made much progress with this Bill.

Request negatived.

Item agreed to.

Item 47 (Egg contents), and item 48 (Egg, not in shell, in liquid form) agreed to.

Item 49 -

Egg yolk, dry, per lb., British,1s. ; intermediate,1s. ; general,1s. 6d.

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

– This item merely represents egg in another form, and in order to stress the principle for which I have previously contended, I move -

That the House of Representatives be requested to make the item (British) free.

Senator SENIOR:
South Australia

– I would point out to Senator Gardiner how inconsistent is his action. Great Britain is a large importer of eggs, and not an exporter. Consequently, the honorable senator’s ‘proposal, if adopted, would merely serve to make the food of the working man in Great Britain dearer than it otherwise would be. As we have already allowed denatured eggs to be admitted free, according to the honorable senator’s line of reasoning, we should offer a premium for their importation.

Request negatived.

Item agreed to.

Item 50 (Eggs, in shell) agreed to.

Item 51 -

Fish, viz. : -

Oysters, fresh, in the shell, per cwt., 2s.-

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– Are any fresh oysters in the shell imported ?

Senator Keating:

– Yes. The best; oysters of the lot are imported in that form.

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I thought that oysters wereimported in cold storage.

Senator Keating:

– Fresh oysters in the shell are imported in bags from New, Zealand.

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– No oysters, fresh inthe shell, are imported from Great Britain, and yet under this item there is a duty of 2s. per cwt. against that country. A similar remark is applicable to other items. For example, there is a duty against Great Britain upon bananas which are not grown in the Old Country, and a duty upon lemons which cannot be grown there. Perhaps upon the next item I shall ask the. Minister to knock out the British preferential duty upon bananas, because to some extent it exposes us to ridicule.

Senator RUSSELL:
Vice - President of the Executive Council · Victoria · NAT

– The object of the duties levied upon the various sub-items of this item is that reciprocal trade relations may be entered into between the Commonwealth and New Zealand or Canada. The latter Dominion exports a large quantity of tinned fish, to Australia, and has been practically stealing the market of Great Britain.

Item agreed to.

Item 52-

Fruits, fresh, viz. : -

Bananas, per cental, British,1s. 6d.; in termediate, 2s. 6d.; general, 2s. 6d.; and on and after 19th May, 1921, per lb., British,1d. ; intermediate,1d.; general,1d.

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

– Until recently the duty upon bananas under the intermediate and general Tariffs was 2s. 6d. per cental. That represented an increase of1s. per cental upon the Tariffs of 1908 and 1911. The position seems to be that until this year we were satisfied with a duty of1s. 6d. per cental, because under the Tariff of 1914 the same rate obtained. In the present Tariff as introduced by the Government, provision was made for a duty of 2s. 6d. per dental, intermediate and general, but that duty was raised by another place to1d. per lb., or 8s. 4d. per cental. Such an impost is much too high. While I am prepared to take into consideration the position of those who are engaged in this young industry, the prospects of its development, and the desirableness of Australia producing by white labour all the bananas it requires, I feel that there rests upon me a responsibility to support only that measure of protection which is ample. In the true interests of the consumers and the growers, I propose to move that the House of Representatives be requested to make the duty½d. per lb., instead of1d. per lb., or 4s. 2d. per cental.

Senator Keating:

– Why not move to make the duty 2s. 6d.per cental, as provided in the Tariff as originally introduced in another place?

Senator LYNCH:

– Very well. I move -

That the House of Representatives be requested to make the duty, general, per cental, 2s. 6d.

– It is a pretty healthy infant, seeing that Australia produced last year 435,000 centals, and imported only 76,000.

Senator EARLE:

– One important factor is that bananas, unlike apples, cannot be locked up or stored for any length of time. They must be placed on the market when ready, and that consideration is bound to regulate the trade when this country is able to produce the whole of its own requirements.

Senator KEATING:
Tasmania

– I agree that it is desirable that this industry should be protected; but, iri my view, it has been very well protected in the past. The further protection given in this schedule, as it was originally introduced in another place, was surely adequate. Replying to questions by

Senator Pratten this afternoon, the Minister (Senator Russell) furnished information of a strikingly interesting character. The particulars revealed that the importations of bananas have been steadily diminishing.

Senator Crawford:

– During the war.

Senator KEATING:

Senator DE LARGIE:

– Such a sweep- ing assertion cannot carry . weight with honorable senators.

Senator Reid:

– It is pretty true, anyhow.

Senator DE LARGIE:

– So far. as “Western Australia is concerned, the present duty on bananas prevents their use there. I do not regard this matter .from the fiscal stand-point, or from the White Australia stand-point; I look, upon it wholly from the stand-point of the people’s need, and I say that if this impost is maintained it will be impossible for those living in Western Australia to get bananas.

Senator Sir THOMAS GLASGOW (Queensland) [4.36].. - I trust that the Committee will not agree to the request. We have heard much about the way in which the banana industry has advanced, and I draw attention to the fact that the progress that has been made has been due to the protection which it has received through the lack of shipping preventing competition. In 1898, banana growing was a flourishing industry in Queensland, no fewer than 4,000,000 bunches being produced in that year; but afterwards, owing to the competition of Fiji, the Queensland production declined until, just prior to the - war, it did not amount to 1,000,000 bunches per annum. To show the effect of the Fiji competition, let me contrast the cost of bringing bananas from Fiji to Melbourne with the cost of bringing bananas from Queensland to Melbourne. In 1919, the selling agents in the trade supplied the following particulars of the cost of bringing a case of bananas from Fiji to Sydney : - Transport to steamer, ls. ; freight to Sydney, 3s. 2d. ; duty, ls. 6d. per cental - say ls. Id. a case containing about 80 lbs. weight of fruit - wharfage dues, lid.: inspection fees, 2d.; Fiji export duty, id. ; cost of case, 2s. 9d:; carting, 2d.; commission, say ls.; the total being 9s. 5fd. When these figures were made known, the secretary to the Southern Queensland Fruit-growers Association compiled a statement of the cost of transporting a case of bananas from Gympie to Melbourne. The fruit is carried weekly by train, in what are called “ fruit specials,” the Fruit-growers Association having an arrangement with the Railway Commissioners of the States under which it is carried through from Gympie to Melbourne’ direct in about 4 days. The rninimum railway rate per case from. Gympie to Melbourne is 4s., the cartage to rail averages ls. 3d., association and landing fees come to 2d., the cost of the case averages ls: 8d., the agent’s commission is 10 per cent, on 25s., or about 2s. 6d., the inspection fees at Melbourne Id.; the receiving costs at Melbourne Id., and the carting cost at Melbourne. 2d., making the total cost 9s. lid., or 5id. per case more than the cost of bringing bananas from Fiji to Sydney.

Senator Senior:

– The agents’ fees are twice as high in Melbourne as in Sydney.

Senator Lynch:

– Two shillings and sixpence as against ls.

Senator Sir THOMAS GLASGOW:

– The Melbourne selling agents charge 10 per cent., whereas Fiji bananas are sold on a commission of 7& per cent. As to the cost of production, in Fiji a native man is paid 2s. 6d. per day and a native woman ls. 6d., whereas in Queensland the workers get from 10s. to 14s. a day, and it costs four or five times as much to grow bananas in. Queensland as it costs in Fiji. In a book entitled The Colom/ of Fiji, issued some time, after 1916 - the exact date is not given - it is stated that the cost of producing bananas is ls. 6d. a bunch, which would be about 4s. 6d. a case, there being three bunches in a case. It costs at least 16s. to produce a case of bananas iu Queensland, allowing a reasonable return to the grower. I do not think that the Queensland growers .should be asked to compete against the black labour of Fiji. During the Tariff discussion a great deal has been; said in this Chamber about the interest that honorable senators take in the primary producers, and they now have a chance to show their practical sympathy by giving adequate protection to the banana industry, so that those connected with it may receive as good a return as the workers and others connected with city industries. It has been said this afternoon that the price of bananas has been increased by the duty, but in today’s Melbourne Herald bananas are quoted at from 15s. to 20s. a case. There are about 30 dozen bananas in a case, and if honorable senators have, been pay– ing from ls. 6d. to 2s. per dozen retail for bananas, it is not the - growers who have been getting the high prices. Bananas are sold by auction without reserve, and the growers have to take whatever prices are created by the demand.

Senator Russell:

– Prices determined by the consumers, not by the growers ?

Senator Sir THOMAS GLASGOW.Exactly. Other fruits compete with bananas, and they cannot become very dear. Banana grow’ing is an industry in which a good many of our returned sol diers have embarked, and I hope that honorable senators will give to it a measure of protection which will enable it, now that it has been re-established, to continue. In the early days banana-growing in North Queensland was principally in the hands of Chinese; but no fruit comes on to this market at all from north of Rockhampton. The Queensland fruit that comes here is grown between Rockhampton and the Tweed River. There is a considerable number of banana plantations on the northern rivers in New South Wales. I believe the production amounts to about 350,000 cases in New South Wales, and 400,000 cases in Queensland. In another place those who opposed the duty said that the industry in New South Wales was in the hands of Chinese. That is not so.

Senator Gardiner:

– Very largely.

Senator Russell:

– I. understood Senator Glasgow to say that Queensland produced more than 1,000,000 centals. The latest figures I have for the year 1918-19 are 435,000.

Senator Sir THOMAS GLASGOW.I said the production was about 400,000 cases. If I mentioned millions previously, I was referring to the number of bunches. The Minister for Trade and Customs in another place quoted a letter which he had received, giving the number of. Chinese interested and employed in the industry in New South Wales. This showed that they were very few in number. I ask honorable senators to realize that banana-growing is an Australian industry. We in Queensland feel that “we are somewhat isolated in regard to primary products. We are the only State that produces tropical products, and we feel that, as the southern States are not interested in them, we do not get full consideration in the matter of tropical industries. It has been urged that the trade with Fiji will be lost owing to the fact that the boat which brought Fiji bananas here has been discontinued. Surely the trade of Queensland to the southern States is of more value than the trade of Fiji? The people of Queensland consume largely the products of the southern States, and I ask the people of the southern States, in a reciprocal spirit, to deal justly with the primary industry of banana-growing.

Senator COX:
New . South Wales

– I have heard it stated here today that bananas are grown in the northern part of New South Wales by ‘Chinese. I was there the other day, and found a large number of returned soldiers engaged in the industry. They have been encouraged to go on to land which is rather expensive - in fact, any land on the northern rivers is that- and it will be a great pity if we cannot help these young fellows who are endeavouring to make a living there. That district is just below the Queensland border. It is only in certain aspects that bananas can be grown, and as we have” put a number of returned soldiers on to the land there to grow bananas, we have a right to protect them. We ought to leave the duty as it is.

Senator Drake-Brockman:

– What about the young soldiers who have gone on to the land in Western Australia, and want to buy bananas for food?

Senator CRAWFORD:

– As ‘ regards land values, I cannot speak of prices in New South Wales, but I have never heard of unimproved land in Queensland, for any purpose whatever, bringing more than £30 per acre. That land is equal to the very best in Australia. If it were situated at Bacchus Marsh, on the Snowy River, or on the Derwent in Tasmania, it would probably bring from £100 to £200 per acre.

Senator Lynch:

– Unimproved land?

Senator CRAWFORD:

– Yes. In Tasmania, hops could be grown on that land, and they are protected to the extent of ls. per lb. Something was said about the trade which Australia was previously doing with Fiji. We know that the steamer Levuka, which hitherto has been trading between the Commonwealth and Fiji, was taken off that run and put into the Australian coastal .trade, but let me inform honorable senators that the shipping company concerned announced its intention of doing that twelve months ago. It announced that the Levuka was to be transferred to the Australian coastal trade, and the Suva was to take up the running between Australia and Fiji. Surely the trade between our own States is of as much value as trade between Australia and some outside country?

There is not a ship that comes down here with produce from Queensland that does not go back laden with the manufactures and products of the South.

The CHAIRMAN (Senator Bakhap:

– The honorable senator’s time has expired.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
Western Australia

– I wish to reply to, a few of the assertions made by Senator Crawford and others. During the course of this debate, honorable senators must have been struck by the extreme modesty of senators coming from Queensland…

Senator Crawford:

– Why remark upon the obvious?

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:

– Perhaps it has been so obvious as not to require remark. So successful have the re- presentatives of Queensland been in their-‘ last effort at brigandage, shall I call it, that perhaps they have been encouraged to make another effort in the same dire&tion. Australia, with extreme generosity in granting assistance to the sugar industry of Queensland, has made the people engaged in that industry a present of some £23,000,000. That is a fair sum of money. One section of the Queensland people has succeeded in extracting this sum of money from the pockets of the rest of the people of Australia, and, encour-aged by that success, other sections of the peop.le of Queensland are now attempting ano’ther feat of the same sort.

Senator Sir Thomas Glasgow:

– They could not get a railway across a -desert.

Senator Crawford:

– The Commonwealth is losing £500,000 a year on the transcontinental railway.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:

– I was not a party to assisting the Queensland sugar-growers to get this money out of the people of Western Australia, and I am not going to be a party to enable Queensland banana-growers, who are already adequately protected, to extract more money out of the pockets of the people of the State I represent.

Senator de Largie:

– We got the transcontinental railway in spite of the votes df Queensland representatives.

Senator DRAKEBROCKMANThat is so, but I am not at present discussing the merits of the transcontinental railway.

Senator Crawford:

– That is something that the honorable senator would rather not discuss.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:

– I am now discussing the demerits of a proposal to impose a duty of 8s. 4d. per cental on bananas. I want to analyze the extraordinary modesty of senators from Queensland. In the face of the figures we have received fromSenator Gardiner, from the Vice-President of the Executive Council (Senator Russell), and other honorable senators, they ask for an extraordinarily high protection on this article, which amounts to prohibition.

Senator Russell:

– I am not responsible for this duty.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:

– I know that the Minister does not in the least agree with the duty in its present form. No reasonable man could, unless he were prejudiced by an extraordinary position and an extraordinary past success in a similar venture as honorable senators from Queensland are.

Senator Crawford. - I do not think that Senator Drake-Brockman should make such a personal matter of this.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:

– I have said that honorable senators from Queensland are very modest people, and I am analyzing their modesty. Senator Crawford drew a picture to indicate how badly the people of the north had been treated as compared with the people of the south. He may have a grouse on this subject.

Senator Duncan:

– However badly we treated them, they were never treated half so badly as by their own Government.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

– BROCKMAN. - That is perfectly true. Surely the people of the west have some claim to consideration as well as the people of the north. Senator Crawford tells us that InterState trade is just as valuable as trade between Australia and other parts of the world. That may be perfectly true. [What trade goes on between Queensland and Western Australia ? Very little. So far as bananas are concerned, Western Australia secures her supplies, not from Queensland, but from Java, and in exchange sends to Java grapes, apples, and other products. I am informed fromthe best sources of authority in Western Australia that if this duty on bananas is continued, the trade now established between

Western Australia and Java, and which is becoming every day a more valuable trade, will receive a very severe knock. Is it the desire of honorable senators to inflict upon Western Australia, which I heard one. honorable senator describe as the “Cinderella of the Commonwealth,” a severe knock in this direction? Surely that State suffers sufficiently from being a member of the Federation !

Senator Crawford:

– I regret that Senator Crawford did not enlighten us upon this point, because the charges made by agents for the handling of bananas in cases seem to be out of all proportion to the value of the services rendered. ‘Sea carriage is the natural method of transportation for fruit of this description. But the growers have adopted the most expensive form of carriage possible.

Senator Reid:

– Does not the honorable senator think that the grower knows his own business ?

Senator PAYNE:

– But we are being asked to give him a much heavier protection than he has hitherto enjoyed to enable him to continue sending his bananas by rail to the chief centres of Australia. Senator Glasgow has told us that a commission of. 2s. 6d. per case is charged by agents for disposing of this fruit. That is equivalent to about 17-J per cent, upon the prices quoted by the honorable senator, namely, 15s. to 20s. per case. It has been said that returned soldiers are engaged iii the industry of banana growing. I am glad that that is so. But we cannot get away from the fact that they were induced to take up banana-growing upon figures which were available to them prior to the imposition of such a heavy duty. Yet we know upon, good authority that the industry was previously a lucrative one.

If ‘ the present duty be continued, I wish specially to stress the possibility of Australia losing her trade with Fiji. We must always recognise that we are dependent upon other countries for our prosperity. I have been assured upon the. very best authority that many Australians are engaged in banana-growing in Fiji. These men invested their capital there, knowing that they could command a fair market for their produce in the Commonwealth, and in return for that market they have been drawing their supplies from us. In 1918-19 I learn that the total imports into the Commonwealth from Fiji were valued at £192,921, and during the same year our exports to those islands were valued at £443,981.

Senator REID:

Senator SENIOR:
South Australia

– I listened with interest to the remarks made by Senator Reid, because he is a representative of Queensland, and should, therefore, have an intimate knowledge of the subject. He has declared that banana-growing is a white man’s industry. About three years ago I paid my first visit to Queensland, and was particularly anxious to taste of its tropical fruits. I had been told thata freshlycut banana was one of the most delicious of fruits, and I determined, when I reached the banana-growing districts, to lose no time in testing the truth of the statement. As a matter of fact, as soon as I reached Brisbane,I tried to obtain some Queensland bananas, but failed. I could get bananas grown in Fiji, but none that were locally produced.

Senator Crawford:

– Was that for virgin land?

– That may be so. As a Parliament, we have encouraged these men to settle on the land, and large numbers who have paid high prices for their land are already engaged in this industry. If they are to succeed, they must receive a fairly substantial return for their product.

SenatorJohnD.Millen.ButParliament did not guarantee the imposition of a prohibitive duty.

Senator DUNCAN:

– No. We do not desire to impose a prohibitive duty; and I submit that that proposed and supported by Queensland senators is prohibitive. It is considerably more than the returned soldier settlers ever expected, and it is more than a fair thing, because it will have to be shouldered by a section of the community which can least afford to bear it. That being so, it is not my intention to record my vote in favour of the imposition of a high duty. We have to find some via mediawhereby we can give the right degree of protection to the grower, and insure that the consumer will not have to pay more than a fair price. I believe that the request submitted by Senator Pratten will meetthe position, and honorable senators from Queensland will be well advised if they accept it, because it will afford a very large increase in the protection previously enjoyed by the banana-growers, and is to most of them an increase of nearly 200 per cent. It should be sufficient to protect them against abnormal importations from Fiji, whilst at the same time it will not altogether prohibit importation. I have a great deal of sympathy with the claims of the Fijian growers, who are assisting in developing a portion of the British Empire. We do not desire to declare in bald terms that we refuse to trade with a portion of the British Empire, particularly with a portion so near to Australia. We should impose a duty which would be of assistance to local producers, and one which would not be the means of totally excluding importations from Fiji. The request proposed by Senator Pratten will give our own producers protection without creating the impression that we desire to exclude Fijian bananas from the Australian market. I trust the request will be carried, because I believe it has been submitted in the interests of this industry, which promises to be a very important one to the Commonwealth.

The CHAIRMAN (Senator Bakhap:

– I direct the honorable senator’s attention to the fact that Senator Pratten’s indicated request will only be submitted in the event of the question before the Committee being rejected.

Senator DUNCAN:

– Iunderstand that that is the position. Unf ortunately, it is true that large numbers of Asiatics are employed in growing bananas in the northern districts of New South Wales. I do not know if they are employed on the Queensland banana lands. I have seen Asiatics living in tumble-down “ shacks “ that white men would not occupy, and under conditions repugnant to civilized men. If it is merely a question of giving protection to producers who live under such conditions I do not intend to assist them. But although these men are growing bananas, there is another large section of growers who deserve all the consideration we can give, and it is our duty to see that, while we do our utmost to conserve the interests of the consumer, we must not ruin those white men who are engaged in this industry, particularly in view of the promises made to them when they took up the land.

SenatorRUSSELL (Victoria- VicePresident of the Executive Council) [8.40]. - Itmust beadmitted that thegrowihg of bananas in Australia is of equal importance to the production of apples in Tasmania, and I believe that too much of the parochial spirit has been introduced into the discussion on this item. Honorable senators seem to desire to go to extremes. I am opposed to the imposition of a duty of 13s. 4d., because it would be robbery, and I am opposed to those who favour a high protective duty on apples and oranges, and who do not favour a reasonable duty on bananas. The banana-growers are as much entitled to protection as the growers of apples, which have to compete, not with the product of coloured labour, but with that of highly-civilized people in Canada and the United States of America. It is not my intention to go into details concerning the cultivation of the land for the production of apples and bananas.

Senator Payne:

– Who has been discussing apple-growing?

SenatorRUSSELL. - No one; but the growing of bananas must be considered in connexion with the production of other fruits. Nearly every State of the Commonwealth can produce apples, and Australia seems to be most adversely affected by the present duty on bananas, because of the distance of most centres of population from the districts where they are grown; but I believe that some day Western Australia will be in a position to produce her own requirements in this direction. It seems unfair to place an unduly heavy burden on one State because of its inability to receive supplies at a reasonable rate; but at the same time Western Australia should be compelled to carry her share when we are endeavouring to legislate in the interests of the whole Commonwealth. For that reason, those who favour a high duty should agree to a reasonable compromise. The banana-growers in New South Wales and Queensland are entitled to protection.

SenatorRowell. - I suppose the Government thought so when they introduced the Tariff?

SenatorRUSSELL. - That is so. I do not think that the banana-growers should be given less consideration than other fruit-growers. We do not wish to divide our fruit producers into sections, but should endeavour to treat the bananagrowers in Queensland with as much consideration as the fruit-growers in any other State. The duty on apples has been increased to 6s. per cental, and there is not the same necessity to protect apples as there is to protect Australian bananas against importations from Fiji, where they are produced by coloured labour. Banana-growing and apple-growing are both natural industries.

Senator Drake-Brockman:

– But it takes seven years to get a return from an apple orchard, as against a few months in the case of a banana plantation.

SenatorRUSSELL. - On the other hand, the orchardist gets a bigger return from apples. However, I am not placing the apple-grower and the banana-grower on the same level. Each is entitled to protection in some degree; but the bananagrowers of Australia, who are white people raising white families in a White Australia, should not be asked to compete with the cheap black labour of other countries. I do not ask for a duty of 13s. 4d. per cental, as originally asked for by Queenslanders, but I do ask honorable senators to regard the industry as one worth protecting by the imposition of a reasonable rate, which will enable it to be developed. To-night it has been pointed out, by interjection, that already the industry has been built up with a Protective duty of ls. 6d. per cental ; but, as a matter of fact, that rate bas not been operative for the past three years, owing to the fact that during this period Fiji was suffering from a serious outbreak pf influenza.

Senator Bolton:

– The importation of bananas from Fiji has increased in recent years.

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

– The honorable senator is apparently referring to the export of bananas from Fiji since the war, when it has been almost impossible for the island to send away its produce owing to the scarcity of shipping.

Senator Keating:

– During the war the importation of bananas from Fiji increased each year.

Senator RUSSELL:

– That is true, but the quantity has fallen considerably since the Armistice. Queensland growers must be congratulated on their successful efforts in building up their trade during the war and the influenza period from an output worth £150,110 in 1916-17 to an output worth £435,000 in 1918-19, the latest year for which the figures are available.

Senator Lynch:

– That development took place on the lower duty.

Senator RUSSELL:

– It came about not because of the protection afforded by the duty,, but because there was practically no importation of bananas from Fiji, owing to conditions over which this Parliament had no control. Some honorable senators have told us that Chinese are growing bananas in Queensland and in the northern part of New South Wales. In this connexion, the Customs Department has received two telegrams. The first, from the secretary of the Tweed Fruitgrowers’ Co-operative Company Limited, says -

In refutation of allegations regarding Chinese engaged in the banana industry in the Tweed River, 300 bond fide banana-growers in the district hold shares in this company, representing approximately 3,000 acres. .Not one Chinese grower is on our share register and no Chinese labour is employed by shareholders. Similar conditions apply to Queensland banana areas south of Southport. About 60,000 cases of bananas from Tweed Heads, and 40,000 from Currumbin have been railed south during the past twelve months, all European grown.

The other telegram, from a Mr. Stuart, secretary of an organization at Murwillumbah, says -

Four thousand acres under bananas Tweed River; 222,000 cases produced for year ending April by 600 Europeans. Not one Chinaman engaged in production either as freeholder, leaseholder, or as employee. Area in Queensland south of Southport produced 40,000 cases in the same period. No Chinese in any way interested.

Senator Crawford:

– The Commonwealth has put £2,000,000 into the Murray Waters scheme.

Senator REID:

– That is so. We have given the production of currants a protection of 3d. per lb., which is a larger measure of protection than has been given to the banana industry. This is the first time in the history of the banana industry when it may be said that it is in the hands of white men. Bananas cannot be stored in the same way as dried fruits. Unless they are dried and made into banana flour, bananas must.be sold within a limited time after they are cut. I appeal to honorable senators, if they are unwilling to give the banana-growers of the Tweed River and Queensland all that they are asking for, to deal with the industry in as generous a spirit as possible. I do not wish to dilate on the White Australia policy, but we have

Bet up certain high standards for the Commonwealth, and I feel sure that no member of the Committee would favour any lowering of those standards. I have said that the banana industry lends itself to close family settlement, which, in turn, overcomes the labour difficulty in primary production. I hope that honorable senators will do all that they can to encourage this industry by dealing with it as generously as possible.

Senator KEATING:
Tasmania

– I wish to add a few words to what I have already said on the request submitted by Senator Lynch. I listened to what was said respecting the alteration in the output of bananas in Queensland during the war period. I have npt yet heard any refutation of the figures I advanced as to the imports during the - period covered by the war. Those figures clearly show that during the war and up to the time of the armistice the importation of bananas was substantial, and, if anything, showed a gradual increase. Since that time there has been a tremendous drop in -the importations, and there has been a larger proportion of the Australian demand for bananas supplied by Queensland and the Northern Rivers districts of New South Wales. That occurred under the pre-existing duty. The proposal of the Government, as the Tariff was originally introduced, was to raise the duty from ls. 6d. to 2s. 6d. per cental. As Senator Bolton has pointed out, that represented very generous treatment to the industry. On the top of that, honorable members in another place raised the duty from 2s. 6d. to 8s. 4d. per cental. Senator Reid, speaking earlier in the debate, said that “Fiji has been cut out.” He told us that, since the 27th May, no Fiji bananas have come into the Commonwealth. Later on he referred to the period since when “Fiji has been cut out.” That is an admission that the Tariff, as it stands at present, is, under this item, not merely protective, but prohibitive. If there is one case in which we should not at this time go beyond necessary protection into the realms of prohibition, it is in con nexion with trade with British Possessions in the Pacific Ocean.

Senator de Largie:

– And with a food supply of the people.

Senator KEATING:

– Exactly. We have been told that Fiji has been cut out, and it has been complained by the people of Fiji that they have been cut out. We know, as a matter of fact, that thu Levuka, a very large vessel, and wellfitted, not merely for the carriage of bananas and other tropical products, but also for the carriage of passengers, which was engaged in the trade of Fiji for many years, has been taken out of that trade.

Senator Crawford:

– That was decided more than twelve months ago. ;

Senator KEATING:

– That statement may or may not be correct, but it has been publicly claimed, and, so far as I know, hot so publicly denied, if denied at all, that it was in consequence of the fact that no bananas were being imported from Fiji that the Levuka was taken out of that trade. Whether that be so or not, the prohibition, which in effect this duty means, of this trade between Fiji and Australia involves the lessening of our commercial relations with a British Possession in the Pacific. As a result of the war, Australia has assumed ‘ obligations in connexion with mandates. The position of Australia with regard to these mandates is being viewed very jealously, not merely by our former enemies, but by some who, during the war, were our Allies. If there was ever a time when the Possessions of the British Empire in the southern seas and in the Pacific should be drawn closely together in all their relations, it is the present time. Such a policy as that involved in the duty under consideration will not tend in that direction, but will’ have the opposite effect. For these reasons, I am not disposed to support a duty which has proved to be prohibitive of our trade with Fiji in the products of this staple industry of that British Possession. I think that a duty of 2s. 6d. per cental would afford Australian producers of bananas adequate, if not generous, protection. It would not give them a monopoly, but under such a duty competition from Fiji would be handicapped, and the Australian industry would not suffer. If I thought that it would .1 should have to review the position. Feeling as I do with regard to the maintenance and development of our trade relations with Fiji and other British Possessions in the Pacific, and assuming, as I have been invited to do by representations of the industry recently shown in the Queen’s Hall, that it is in a flourishing condition in Queensland, I am strongly impelled to support the request submitted by Senator Lynch.

Senator CRAWFORD:
Queensland

– I have no desire to unduly delay the taking of a vote on the question before the Chair, but I must say a word or two in reply to some statements made by other speakers. I begin with Senator Senior’s announcement that during a visit he paid to Queensland three years ago he could obtain no Queensland bananas, whilst an abundance of Fijian bananas was on sale wherever he went. I do not wish for a moment to question Senator Senior’s veracity, but I shall certainly, in future, discount by 100 per cent, everything I hear the honorable senator say. I have lived in Queensland for thirty years, and throughout the whole of that time I have never seen a Fijian banana in that State, whilst, to my knowledge, there has been in the coastal centres, at any rate, an abundant supply of home-grown bananas. With regard to land prices, I should like to read a couple of advertisements from the Brisbane Courier of the 1st August. Here is one -

Banana and pineapple farm, 30 acres, 12 acres cultivated. Comfortable dwelling, two horses, cart, implements. Half-a-mile from railway station_ £950.

Senator Crawford:

– The honorable senator does not believe in protecting anything.

Senator GARDINER:

– Absolutely not, because, by the time protection has been given all round, a man is made to pay more to protect the other fellow than the protection be receives. In regard to the trade with the Pacific Islands, the war is over, and we have mandates over certain islands in the Pacific. Are we to shut out the products of our mandated territories? We have an opportunity of getting our share of the Empire’s trade, yet we are not only seriously curtailing the opportunities for trade, but are interfering with the supplies of a fruit that has become an important item of the diet of our children, particularly those of the working class.

Question - That the request (Senator Lynch’s) be agreed to - put. The Committee divided.

AYES: 10

NOES: 17

Majority . . . . 7

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Request negatived.

Request (by Senator Pratten) proposed -

That the House of Representatives he requested to make the duty, per lb., id.

Question put. The Committee divided.

AYES: 21

NOES: 7

Majority . . … 14

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Request agreed to.

Item agreed to, subject to a request.

Item 53-

Fruits, Dried, viz.: -

Senator EARLE:
Tasmania

– This item covers the product which is known as dried or evaporated apples. I move -

That the House of Representatives be requested to insert the following sub-item: - “ (d) Apples, dried, or evaporated, per lb., British, 4d.: intermediate, 4d.: general, 4d.”

– I would have no objection to such importations, provided that Australian-grown apples were not procurable at a reasonable price. We have considerable provision for cool storage, and, generally, there is a fair supply of Australian apples throughout the year. I am prepared to give reasonable encouragement, by means of the Tariff, to any branch of the fruit-growing industry, but there should be fair play all round; and I shall want to know, for example, why dates, which are a tropical product, should be given protection to the extent of only1d. per lb., compared with the protection granted in other directions.

The CHAIRMAN (Senator Bakhap:

– Does Senator Earle include in his mo-, tion for a request the words suggested by Senator Cox?

Senator Earle:

– No, sir; I prefer not to cloud the issue.

Progress reported.

page 10714

ADJOURNMENT

Tariff Debate

Senator PEARCE:
Western AustraliaMinister for Defence · NAT

– In moving

That the Senate do now adjourn,

I trust that I may be pardoned if I appeal to honorable senators to permit of rather more rapid progress than has been achieved so far with the Tariff schedule. Honorable senators who may be desiring a respite before another place resumes its sittings will not have their wishes fulfilled if the rate of dealing with the items in the schedule is not speeded up. Instead, the Senate is likely to be still sitting when another place resumes after its adjournment.

Senator DE LARGIE:
Western Australia

– I desire to correct a statement which I made in the Senate some time ago when speaking upon the

Tariff. I was referring to a Tariff which was under consideration of the New South Wales Parliament, and I stated that Senator Gardiner, as a member of that Legislature, had voted, together with some other members, for the removal of certain duties. I find now that, in the case of Senator Gardiner, I was in error; that, indeed, the honorable senator was not at the time a member of the New South Wales Parliament. He had been a member a few months previously.. Seeing that he could not have taken part in the division to which I alluded, I naturally desire to acknowledge and correct my mistake.

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

– I am sorry that Senator de Largie has taken the trouble to make his explanation,, because I am bound to say that, had I been in the New South Wales Parliament at the time, I would have voted precisely as he erroneously said I did.

The Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) has appealed for expedition with respect to the consideration of the Tariff schedule. It should not be forgotten that the Government have “ slept on” the Tariff for some twelve or eighteen months. If the whole business be got through by Christmas, they should be well satisfied. There are more than 400 items, and very few have been dealt with, despite the earnest efforts, of honorable senators to-day. I have been, away for a fortnight, and I hoped that the Committee would have finished with the schedule before my return. The Tariff, however, is too important to warrant hurry. The Government may think that, because they have prepared it, and it has been in operation for many months, it is perfect. They must realize, however, that during the period in which the schedule operated prior to this Parliament being given an opportunity to deal with it ample opportunities were afforded of perceiving its defects. If the Parliament has finally dealt with the schedule by Christmas, so that there may be then a brief recess with a view to a resumption in the New Year, that should be satisfactory to the Government.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Senate adjourned at 10.8 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 3 August 1921, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1921/19210803_senate_8_96/>.

View PDF View XML View in Voyant

Senate 3 August 1921

PETITION

KINEMATOGRAPH FILMS

Senator RUSSELL:Vice-President of the Executive Council · VICTORIA · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

NEWS PAPER

Senator RUSSELL:NAT

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

QUESTION

NAVIGATION ACT

Senator PEARCE:Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

QUESTION

SENATE COMMITTEES

Senator DUNCAN:NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator PEARCE:NAT

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon T Givens:QUEENSLAND

QUESTION

IMPORTATION OF BANANAS

Senator RUSSELL:NAT

PAPERS

QUESTION

POSITION IN RUSSIA

Senator LYNCH:WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator PEARCE:NAT

Senator LYNCH:

Senator PEARCE:

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon T Givens:

Senator ELLIOTT:Victoria

Senator Pearce:

ANZAC TWEED INDUSTRY

Copy of Agreement

The PRESIDENT:

Senator Elliott:

Senator Pearce:

Senator Elliott:

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator Pearce:

Senator Elliott:

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon T Givens:

Senator Lynch:

The PRESIDENT:

CUSTOMS TARIFF BILL

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator RUSSELL:VicePresident of the Executive Council · Victoria · NAT

Senator Keating:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator Keating:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator Keating:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator Keating:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator Keating:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator Keating:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator Keating:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator Rowell:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator Russell:

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator Russell:

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator Russell:

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator GARDINER:New South Wales

Senator de Largie:

Senator GARDINER:

Senator Senior:

Senator GARDINER:

Senator Crawford:

Senator GARDINER:

Senator Russell:

Senator GARDINER:

Senator GARDINER:New South Wales

Senator SENIOR:South Australia

Senate
3 August 1921

Senator RUSSELL:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · VICTORIA · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator DUNCAN:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon T Givens:
QUEENSLAND

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

Senator LYNCH:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

Senator ELLIOTT:
Victoria

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator RUSSELL:
VicePresident of the Executive Council · Victoria · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

Senator SENIOR:
South Australia

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator RUSSELL:
Vice - President of the Executive Council · Victoria · NAT

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

Senator EARLE:
Tasmania

Senator KEATING:
Tasmania

Senator DE LARGIE:
Western Australia

Senator COX:
New . South Wales