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Senate
1 March 1917

6^th Parliament · 1^st Session

HOME SERVICE PROCLAMATION
QUESTION
- PROTECTION: PROHIBITION OF MEETING
QUESTION
- PAIRS
QUESTION
- PREMIER OF TASMANIA
PAPERS
QUESTION
- IMPERIAL CONFERENCE
QUESTION
- KALGOORLIE TO PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY
QUESTION
- ADMINISTRATOR OF NORTHERN TERRITORY - CHAIRMAN OF RIVER MURRAY WATERS COMMISSION
QUESTION
- PRICE OF STOCK AND MEAT
QUESTION
- PROSECUTION OF MR. COOMBE, M.H.A
QUESTION
- ADVANCES TO SOLDIERS
QUESTION
- GENERAL ELECTION
QUESTION
- RECRUITING DEPOT: MELBOURNE
QUESTION
- HENDERSON NAVAL BASE
QUESTION
- IMPERIAL CONFERENCE
DAYLIGHT SAVING ACT REPEAL. BILL
QUESTION
- POSTPONEMENT OF PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS
QUESTION
- COMMONWEALTH WAR MINISTRY
ADJOURNMENT
STORAGE OF TAR
- Melbourne, Saturday
- Empire War Council
- Ayes … … 17
- Noes … … … 15
- Majority … … 2

The President took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 10763

HOME SERVICE PROCLAMATION

Senator FINDLEY:
Victoria

.- I move -

That the return to the order of the Senate, presented at the last sitting, be printed.

Senator MILLEN:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– After the lapse of time since the return was tabled, can the honorable senator submit this motion without notice?

The PRESIDENT:

– There is no doubt that the motion would’ have been perfectly in order if it had been moved at the time the paper was laid on the table, and I am of opinion that it is in order now. Standing order 36 says -

A Printing Committee, to consist of seven senators, shall be appointed at the commencement of each session, to which shall stand referred all petitions and papers presented to the Senate, or laid upon the table, the committee to report from time to tune as to what petitions and papers ought to be printed, and whether wholly or in part : Provided that, when a paper bag been laid on the table, a motion may be made at any time, without notice, that the paper be printed;

The motion is perfectly in order.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 10754

QUESTION

PROTECTION: PROHIBITION OF MEETING

Senator FINDLEY:

– Has the Leader of the Government had an opportunity of getting intotouch with the Prime Minister’s Department to obtain the information whichI have been seeking for some days in respect to the prohibition placed’ on the holding of a meeting in the MelbourneTown Hall for the furtherance of Protection?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– I regret that I am not yet in a position to answer the question of the honorable senator, and in doing so I wish to assure him that it is not from want of any effort on my part. The Prime Minister only returned yesterday from Sydney, and having regard to the multiplicity of his duties it has been simply impossible to put the matter before him up to the present moment. I will make a special effort to do so, and endeavour to have an answer ready for the meeting of the Senate to-morrow.

Senator KEATING:

-Seeing that the Wheat Board is to meet to-morrow, I ask the Honorary Minister if he will keep in Blind the representationswhich have been repeatedly made by the representatives of Tasmania, as well as by the Premier and Treasurer of that State, as to the difficult position which it occupies in regard the supply of wheat? Will he also take into consideration what was implied inmy previous question, namely, that as the Commonwealth stands behind and finances the Wheat Pool, will he, therefore, impress upon the Board the desirableness of allowing Tasmania to obtain supplies of wheat at her own porta at prices equivalent to those at which it is being sold at ports on the mainland?

Senator RUSSELL:

– In regard to the first portion of the honorable senator’s question I may say that the matter to which it relates has been set down on the agenda paper for to-morrow’s meeting of the Wheat Board. As to whether Tasmania will be permitted to participate in the wheat supplies on the lines suggested by the honorable senator, I think that we ought first to have a direct application from the Tasmanian Government.

COMMONWEALTH FREEHOLDS.

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the Leaderof the Government in the Senate what is the cause of the extraordinary delay in presenting the complete return of the value of the freeholds of the Commonwealth for which I asked some time ago ?

Senator MILLEN:

– I cannot myself supply the information, but I will make inquiries and endeavour to inform the honorable senator, some time next week, of the reason for the delay.

PUBLIC SERVICE CASUAL EMPLOYEES.

Senator McKISSOCK:
VICTORIA

– I ask the Vice-President of the Executive Council whether, out of consideration for the casual employees of the Commonwealth, he will bring before the Cabinet the desirableness of altering the pay-day in the Public Service from a fortnightly to a weekly one?

Senator MILLEN:

– Acting on the suggestion of the honorable senator, I shall mention the matter to the Prime Minister.

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.

Report of the Public Accounts Com mittee on the manner of submitting the Estimates, Budget, and Treasurer’s Financial Statement presented by Senator Bakhap.

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES.

Casualties.

Senator MULLAN:
QUEENSLAND · ALP

– Iask the Minister for Defence whether he has any objection to furnishing us with a list of the casualties in the Australian Imperial Force for each month since the commencement of the war?

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

– I cannot see any objection other than that considerable expense may be incurred in compiling the return. Subject to that qualification, I will endeavour to see that the information is supplied.

page 10766

QUESTION

PREMIER OF TASMANIA

Senator GARDINER:

– I ask the

Leader of the Government in the Senate whether the Premier of Tasmania was called to Melbourne by the Prime Minister on a matter of public business of the Commonwealth, or on a matter of private business?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– I am unable to answer the question.

Senator GARDINER:

– Then, I ask whether thecalling of the Premier of’ Tasmania to New South Wales so hurriedly was with a. view to the summoning of the Tasmanian Parliament?

Senator MILLEN:

– My answer to the second question of the honorable senator necessarily follows my answer to his. first question.

page 10766

PAPERS

The following papers were presented-

Post and Telegraph Act 1901-1916.- regula tions amended, &c. - Statutory Rules 1917, Nos. 27, 28, 39.

The War-

German Peace Note, communicated 12th December, 1916 (Paper presented to British Parliament).

German Peace Note: Translation of Allies’ Reply, communicated 30th December,

United States Note, communicated 20th December. 1916, respecting peace prospects. (Paper presented to British Parliament.)

page 10766

QUESTION

IMPERIAL CONFERENCE

Senator McDOUGALL:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– Yesterday I asked a question in reference to a cable from England dealing with our representation at the Imperial War Conference. I then said that the cable in question would appear in the Herald of yesterday. It has so appeared. Will the Leader of the Government in the Senate tell us whether the request referred to therein has been made to the Government or otherwise ?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– With much regret I have to state that my ignorance on. the subject is as profound to-day as it was yesterday.

page 10766

QUESTION

KALGOORLIE TO PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY

Gilchrist Charges

Senator TURLEY:
QUEENSLAND

– I ask the Honorary Minister representing the Minister for Works and Railways whether the Government have decided what action it intends to take in connexion with the report of Judge Eagleson upon the charges made by Mr. Gilchrist in regard to’ the East- West transcontinental line)

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– I am aware that the honorable senator has asked this question frequently in the Senate, but in view of changes which have recently taken place here, I ask him to give me till tomorrow to obtain an answer to it.

Senator TURLEY:
QUEENSLAND · ALP

– Does the honorable senator require notice ?

Senator MILLEN:

– No.

Senator Turley:

– I put the question to the Honorary Minister because I understand that he represents the Minister for Works and Railways.

Senator Russell:

– The matter comes under the Attorney-General’s Department.

page 10766

QUESTION

ADMINISTRATOR OF NORTHERN TERRITORY - CHAIRMAN OF RIVER MURRAY WATERS COMMISSION

page 10757

QUESTION

PRICE OF STOCK AND MEAT

Senator MULLAN:
QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Whether, in view of the fact that the Government have, under the War Precautions Act, taken control of the disposal of live stock and meat, they will take into consideration the immediate necessity of regulating the price of stock and meat in order that the consumers may derive some advantage from the Commonwealth Government’s interference?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– It is considered that resumption of normal market conditions resulting from the removal of restrictions on the distribution of live stock will be of advantage to consumers.

page 10757

QUESTION

PROSECUTION OF MR. COOMBE, M.H.A

Senator GARDINER:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Has the Minister seen the Argus report of the prosecution re Mr. E.S. Coombe, M.H.A., in Adelaide?
If the report is correct, will he take steps to have the fine remitted?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– In order to conform to the rulings which you, sir, have frequently given with respect to replies to questions, and, in order that my reply to Senator Gardiner may not be misunderstood, I ask the leave of the Senate to make a statement.

Leave granted.

Senator PEARCE:

– I have, in reply to the first question, to say that I have seen the Argus report of the prosecution of Mr. E. H. Coombe, M.H.A., in Adelaide. As that report did not fully set out the facts of the case, I thought it necessary to ask the leave of the Senate to make a statement, especially in view of the reply I made yesterday to Senator Gardiner on the same subject, to the effect that the words to which he referred in his question were not the only words used by Mr. Coombe upon which the charge against him was based. I have before me the file, and I find that there were two charges made against Mr. Coombe, one in which he was reported to have said, in addressing, atTanunda, in South Australia, a meeting largely composed of Germans -

That he appealed to the people of Australia to have nothing more to do with the war.

Senator Gardiner:

– He was acquitted on that charge, was he not?

Senator PEARCE:

– And, further, he was reported to have pointed out -

The injustice of having certain votes earmarked, and that that was done to intimidate the people.

Two separate charges were lodged against Mr. Coombe. On that upon which he was charged with having appealed to the people of Australia to have nothing more to do with the war, he was acquitted. On the other charge, the Crown Solicitor advised as follows: -

In my opinion the statement as to the injustice of ear-marking votes, and that it was done to intimidate the people, was an attempt to cause disaffection among the civilian population at Tanunda, which is largely German, and would justify proceedings for contravention of regulation 43 of the War Precautions Regulations.

On that charge Mr. Coombe was convicted, and, in view of the opinion of the Crown Solicitor, which I have just read, we do not propose to ask for a remission of the sentence.

page 10757

QUESTION

ADVANCES TO SOLDIERS

Senator O’KEEFE:
TASMANIA

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Is there any regulation existing by which Australian soldiers in France, when they are granted leave to go to England, may draw a certain sum in advance if there is no money owing to them?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– The answer is-

There is no regulation dealing with this matter, but the following instructions have recently been issued by General Birdwood: -

Applications for leave from men without funds will be carefully considered by commanding officers, with whom the responsibility for granting the leave rests.

Leave must not be granted to men who, through their own misconduct, have not got the necessary funds.

Each man granted leave under this order must be provided with a note from his commanding officer, stating circumstances under which leave is granted.

On production of the note from his com manding officer to the staff paymaster at A.I.F. Administrative Head-Quarters., 130 Horseferry-road, London, an amount not exceeding £10 will be advanced to the man as an overdraft.

Prior to receiving the advance, however, it will be necessary for the man to sign an agreement that the amount of the advance will be a first charge against his deferred pay if, owing to any cause, he is unable to liquidate the debt.

Advances so made will be clearly entered as such in the soldier’s pay book.

page 10758

QUESTION

GENERAL ELECTION

State of Rolls

Senator BLAKEY:
VICTORIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

In view of the possibility of an early election, have any steps been taken to bring the rolls up to date?
If so, will he inform the Senate what has been done in this regard?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– The answers are -

Yes.
The Commonwealth Electoral Officers, Divisional Returning Officers, and registrars, who have the continuous assistance of lettercarriers and other officials, are actively engaged in securing the enrolment of qualified persons, and in adjusting the rolls under the provisions of the Electoral Act and the regulations.

page 10758

QUESTION

RECRUITING DEPOT: MELBOURNE

Senator McKISSOCK:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

If he has noticed press reports concerning the recruiting depot situated at the Town Hall, Melbourne, in which it is alleged that rooms used for recruiting purposes are insanitary and verminous?
Will he have investigations made, with a view to ascertaining the accuracy or otherwise of the statements?
If the statements are borne out, will the Minister bring pressure to bear upon the City Council to alter this condition of affairs?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– Inquiries are being made, and replies will be furnished as soon as possible.

page 10758

QUESTION

HENDERSON NAVAL BASE

Senator NEEDHAM:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -

Will he recommend to the Government the advisableness of referring all works at the Henderson Naval Base, Cockburn Sound, Fremantle, to the Standing Committee on Public Works?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– Yes, as far as possible.

page 10758

QUESTION

IMPERIAL CONFERENCE

Senator NEEDHAM:

asked the Minis ter representing the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Is it the intention of this Government to give Parliament an opportunity to discuss the questions which are tobe submitted to the Imperial War Conference, prior to the Australian delegation leaving for London, so that Parliament can instruct the delegation as to their attitude?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– This may be done, so far as these are known, on the resolution now on the notice-paper.

page 10758

DAYLIGHT SAVING ACT REPEAL. BILL

Motion (by Senator Gardiner) agreed to-

That leave be given to introduce a Bill to repeal the Daylight Saving Act of 1916.

page 10758

QUESTION

POSTPONEMENT OF PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS

Motion (by Senator Millen) proposed -

That consideration of notice of motion, Government business No. 1, be postponed until after consideration of Order of the DayNo. 1.

Question put. The Senate divided.

AYES: 16

NOES: 16

AYES

NOES

The PRESIDENT:

– The vote being: equal, the question is resolved in the negative.

Government business, notice of motion No. 1, called on as follows: -

The Vice-President of the Executive Council (Senator Millen) to move - That, whereas by reason of the existence of a state of war, and by reason of the immediate meeting of an Imperial Conference for the discussion of questions of paramount importance to the Commonwealth and to the British

Empire, it is imperatively necessary that the forthcoming elections for both Houses of the Parliament of the Commonwealth should be postponed : And whereas, in the existing circumstances this can only be effected by an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom : Now, therefore, this House resolves : That the Imperial Government be requested to provide by legislation for the extension of the duration of the present House of Representatives until the expiration of six months after the final declaration of peace, or until the 8th day of October, 1918, whichever is the shorter period, and for such provision in relation to the terms of senators and the holding of Senate elections as will enable the next elections for the Senate to be held at the same time as the next general election for the House of Representatives, and consequential adjustments to be made regarding subsequent elections.

The PRESIDENT:

– As the business is not being proceeded with it must drop off the notice-paper.

page 10759

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH WAR MINISTRY

Statement of Policy

Debate resumed from 28th February (vide page 10698), on motion by Senator Millen -

That the paper be printed.

Senator GRANT:
New South Wales

– I listened very carefully to the policy speech made by Senator Millen, and although I did not expect very much from the Government he represents, I must confess that the announcement was even worse than I was prepared for. There was nothing in it to meet with my approval. It contained no indication whatever that the Government contemplated proceeding with any useful legislation. The question has been raised as to what the Labour party have done in connexion with the war. Members on the other side have attempted to arrogate to themselves the right to be called the “” Win the war “ party, but they have no right whatever to that title.

Senator de Largie:

– I was rather pleased at the disturbances which occurred in Sydney, because they gave the people an idea of what they might expect under conscription. I have been a student of what the Government have been doing in connexion with our returned soldiers. We have been assured that they are going to pay great attention to our returned soldiers. But, so far, practically nothing has been done by them, and no matter how long they may remain in office their record in that respect will be of the most barren character. There is published almost daily in the Sydney press long lists of men who have been to the front, who have done their duty to the Empire, and who, upon their return, are unable to obtain employment of any kind. This condition of affairs is tolerated by the Government, and that is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to induce men to volunteer. I hold that our returned soldiers ought to be treated as well as it is possible for us to treat them. But, evidently, the Government are quite indifferent as to whether they secure suitable employment or not. I hope that the Ministry will take whatever steps may be necessary to ensure that Australian soldiers upon their return from the front shall be properly looked after. I have no faith that the Government will do anything which will meet with my approval in regard to the prosecution of public works or the construction of the war vessels which may be required by the Commonwealth in the near future. In my judgment, the time has arrived when we should lay down a policy under which we should undertake the construction of all the submarines, destroyers, and cruisers which may be necessary for the efficient defence of Australia. So far, however, Ministers appear to be doing very little in that direction. The same remark is applicable to the prosecution of public works generally, and more particularly to the prosecution of public works at Canberra. The Federal Territory offers the Government an unlimited scope for carrying out schemes relating to the proper housing of the workmen and for the proper laying out of the city, of which full advantage could be taken. But at

Canberra the policy of ‘the Government seems merely to be the discharge of more and more men. But -while they find it necessary to dismiss workmen, they create new and highly-paid positions in connexion with the proposed arsenal, notwithstanding that nothing has yet been done with the arsenal itself. I doubt very much whether the paper presented by Senator Millen is worth printing. . Then the proposal to send three representatives to the Imperial War Conference^ - especially three representatives from a party which is discredited throughout Australia - is one which will not meet with the approval of this Chamber. The Prime Minister, when he placed his conscriptionist proposals before the electors, was defeated by a majority of 72,000. We all know that Sir William Irvine is an ardent conscriptionist, and cannot therefore reflect the opinions of Australia at that Conference. It is quite true that Sir John Forrest may represent the views of Western Australia, but he certainly does not represent the views of the electors of the Commonwealth. These gentlemen have no mandate whatever from the people to represent them at the forthcoming Imperial War Conference, and any decision at which they may ar-. rive will not be binding upon the people of the Commonwealth.

Senator BAKHAP:
Tasmania

– I shall not delay the Senate very long, but I wish to refer to one or two sentences that are contained in the Ministerial statement. Before doing so, however, I want to say a few words as to the circumstances in which the Liberal party became more formally associated with the party led by Mr. Hughes than it had been since the disruption occurred in the ranks of the Labour (party. Personally I would have supported the late Hughes Administration in all matters regarding the prosecution of the war. Of course I am prepared to support the present Administration in respect of its war policy, which I hope will be an effective and vigorous one. But I would like honorable senators clearly to understand that the Liberal party was solicited by the Prime Minister to enter into a more formal alliance with the party led by him, in order that Australia might be represented at the Imperial War Conference, by delegates who would have a more substantial parliamentary following than any. who could be sent from the ranks of those? directly following the late Hughes Administration. I venture to say that that was the real reason which animated theLiberal party in entering into a formal* alliance with’ the party led by Mr. Hughes. The Empire’s needs werestressed, and when a party like theLiberal party, which had completely stink, issues of domestic politics m -order to support a Labour Administration in theprosecution of the war, was asked to enter into an alliance wilh Mr.. Hughes, who had incurred the displeasure of theOfficial Labour party .merely because hehad acted on principles which we believed’ to be essential to the welfare of the Empire, it would have been at least very unseemly to have flouted the invitation. There is no doubt that had Mr. Hughes* decided to go straight to the Imperial’ War Conference immediately on receiptof the invitation from the British Government, he would have received justas loyal support from the Liberal party- during his absence as he is likely to receive under the present altered conditions.. So far as my parliamentary position goes,. I indorse to the full the alliance which? has been entered into. I would have supported the late Administration, and I ams prepared to support the present Administration, in respect of all measures which? are necessary to the successful prosecution of the war. But I think that a serious responsibility devolves upon the PrimeMinister - the responsibility of at once proceeding to the seat of Empire now that he has succeeded in effecting- the formal alliance with the Liberal party which he sought to bring about.. Although we do not at any time desireto see Mr. Hughes politically punished for having espoused ideals similar to our own, and do not wish ‘to see the Official Labourparty get the right honorable gentleman’s scalp, so to speak, it was really a sense of duty to the Empire which urged Liberal members to consent to the formal alliance with Mr. Hughes’ following being consummated.

Senator Stewart:

– It was only a marriage of convenience?

Senator BAKHAP:

I quite admit that tie splendid record of the Labour party is one of which all its members may be proud. As a member of. the Labour party for many years, I am very proud of the work which it hae put up. Senator Gardiner eulogized the formation of the Australian Navy,- and said that it was the presence of the battleship Australia in these waters which saved Australian ports from bombardment. I believe that that statement is quite true. Had not the Australia been so near to our shores, and yet in close’ proximity to the German war-ships, undoubtedly we would have been visited with- some evidence of the war.

Senator de Largie:

– Do you think that that was a lucky circumstance, or an unlucky one?

Senator SENIOR:

– As events have transpired, a visit from the German warships might possibly have been a useful lesson, to us. Our honorable friends on the other side have referred very strongly to the conscription referendum. The word. “ conscription “ does not convey the real issue which waa put before the country. It was simply a question of military service abroad. Those who are so proud of what the Australian Navy has done in saving the Commonwealth will remember that, under our Defence Act, the soldier and the- sailor are on exactly the same lines. No distinction is drawn between the two classes. If, on the -one hand, Senator Gardiner applauds -the Australian sailor for. what he has done, and then, on the other hand, he draws a sharp distinction between the sailor beyond our jurisdiction and the soldier within our jurisdiction, he is not justified.

Senator NEWLANDS:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– And the sailor had no option but to go.

Senator SENIOR:

– Exactly. ‘The sailor had no option as to whether he should remain within our jurisdiction. But Senator Gardiner would give to the soldier an option to remain here. If the duty to serve the Commonwealth is binding on one fighter, I hold that it is also binding on the other. ‘ I wish to deal with some other statements which Senator Gardiner made. Those of us who have maintained our allegiance to Mr. Hughes as Prime Minister were described by the honorable senator as men who had deliberately broken their election pledges. He said that not one amongst those members of the party who left the Caucus room hail kept the pledges which they had signed. He evenwent further, and used thesewords, “ When they are prepared to keep the pledges they made.” I wish that Senator Gardiner was present to hear me remind him of the pledge which I did sign, of the pledge which I have kept, and of the pledge which I am now keeping. I challenge the honorable senator to point to one violation of that pledge by me. He referred to this pledge again and again in his speech, and would lead the people of Australia to believe that honorable senators on this side are weak men. From the official record of the Federal Labour Conference, I will read the pledge which I signed -

I hereby pledge myself not to oppose the candidate selected by the recognised political Labour organization, and, if elected, to do my utmost to carry out the principles embodied in the Australian Labour party’s platform -

There is a comma here - and on all questions affecting the platform to vote -

I judge that it means to vote in the Senate or the other House, as the case may be - as a majority of the parliamentary party may decide at a duly-constituted Caucus meeting.

I have kept every particle of that pledge. I submit that Senator Gardiner, as a gentleman, has no right to say that I have violated the pledge unless he is prepared to come forward with the proof.

Senator NEWLANDS:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– To your knowledge, did he himself ever break the pledge?

Senator SENIOR:

– I think that there have been instances in which Senator Gardiner, if he did not break the pledge, has at least fractured it. If he has not broken the pledge he has so shattered it that it is in danger of being broken. The pledge binds me to a platform, and number 4 of the planks which wo are pledged to maintain reads -

Citizens’ Defence Force, with compulsory military training and Australian-owned and controlled Navy.

– It is not a question of my opinion. I hold in my hand absolute proof. This document is from the United Trades and Labour Council of South Australia, and emanates from the Trades Council office, a body which has no power whatever to interfere on political questions. In the constitution of the Labour party, it is the Labour party, and not the Trades Hall Council, which interferes on political questions.

Senator Watson:

– Any organization has a right to approach its representative on a political matter.

Senator SENIOR:

– Does the honorable senator call the text of that circular, ‘ ‘ approaching “ ? The circular points to the resolution of the Trades Council “ to oppose any member at the next plebiscite who dares to support the pernicious policy of conscription.” Surely a letter couched in such terms cannot be regarded as “ approaching “ Labour representatives in Parliament. It is the same kind of “ approaching ‘ ‘ as characterizes the burglar who is armed with a pistol. Senator Gardiner has charged us with having violated a pledge, but the foundation upon which he bases that charge is as shifty and unsubstantial as a quicksand. . It is based upon the principal resolution of the conference, which was submitted by one of the Port Adelaide committees. It was sent down from the office of the Australian Workers Union to the committee at Port Adelaide, and constituted a recommendation to the conference which appeared on the agenda paper. It was considered by the conference. That resolution reads -

That this Conference solemnly pledges it self to oppose by all lawful means the conscription of human life for military service abroad, and directs all affiliated unions and leagues to take immediate steps to oppose all Labour members who vote for, or otherwise support, conscription, so as to make this matter a clear-cut issue between the forces of Democracy and Despotism; where unions or leagues fail to take such action, the central executive is hereby instructed to refuse, under any circumstances, to indorse conscriptionist candidates; (b) that it be an instruction to the delegates on the

Inter-State executive to oppose, at all costs, the policy of conscription; (c) that copies of the foregoing resolutions be sent to the central body of the Labour organizations of each State, the Acting Prime Minister (Senator Pearce), and the Minister for Customs (Mr. Tudor).

I do not know why Senator Gardiner was omitted.

Senator Gardiner:

– They knew that I was all right.

Senator SENIOR:

– My friend’s interjection implies that they did not know that Mr. Tudor was all right. What happened? This motion was defeated. Yet it is the motion upon which Senator Gardiner bases his charge of disloyalty. It was a defeated motion.

Senator Gardiner:

– The only charge I made was that honorable senators who left the Labour party had violated their pledge to vote as the majority of a duly constituted Caucus meeting might decide.

Senator SENIOR:

– The pledge reads-

I hereby pledge myself not to oppose the candidate selected by the recognised political Labour organization -

It will be difficult presently to discover which is the recognised political organization. The unions are breaking away so fast that there will soon be no Official Labour party, but merely a National Labour party. The pledge continues - and, if elected, to do my utmost to carry out the principles embodied in the Australian Labour party’s platform, and on all questions affecting the platform to vote as a majority of the parliamentary party may decide at a duly constituted Caucus meeting.

My pledge binds me upon matters affecting the platform, and matters affecting the platform only. Upon all other matters I claim my freedom. But the motion to which I have previously referred was not carried at the conference. Instead, the following resolution was adopted: -

That this conference favours the principle of the referenda, but is opposed to the conscription of human life.

– I have not that letter with me. At the conference in Adelaide Mr. Hughes was present when the motion to which I have referred was carried, and he heard the chairman’s ruling, which left every man free. He was thanked for his address, and confidence was expressed in him. Then we are asked to leave Mr. Hughes after our own conference has expressed confidence in him as the leader of the party. Nothing had intervened to account for this change of attitude. There was only the change of mind in our honorable friends opposite, and, according to them, a change of mind involves a change of principle.

Senator Watson:

– The honorable senator should be over here if he has been loyal and true.

Senator SENIOR:

– No; it is Senator Watson who should be on this side. I was elected upon a manifesto issued by Mr. Fisher, as Leader of the Labour party. I have carried out everything to which I was pledged by that manifesto. Mr. Fisher said -

– I refer to the policy speech.

Senator SENIOR:

– It distinctly states that there is to be a vigorous prosecution of war measures. There is nothing in it to indicate that, in the prosecution of the war, the Government will stand still. Mr. Fisher, in his manifesto, further said -

If returned with a majority, we shall pursue with the utmost vigour and determination every course necessary for the defence of the Commonwealth and the Empire, and in any and every contingency we shall carry out the course necessary for the defence of the Empire;

Senator WATSON:

Mr. Hughes. If there be any doubt as to the attitude of the Cabinet on the matter, there can be no doubt as to the attitude of the Caucus. When Mr. Hughes laid bare his plans, we noted a discreet silence on the part of Ministers. Several Ministers were twitted with their continued silence, though afterwards we learned what was the reason for their conduct. Mr. Hughes had every opportunity given to him to convince the members of the Caucus that it was their bounden duty to move with him. May I say that if he had had his way the manhood of this country would have been called up by proclamation as soon as the Parliament met. Not even one month would have been allowed to elapse. I make bold to say that had two months elapsed as against one month - I am not quite clear as to the time-

Senator Pearce:

– The time at first was two months, and then it was reduced to one month. With that amendment the proposals were adopted by a majority.

Senator WATSON:

– I make bold to say that if the term of two months had been allowed to run after the proclamation was issued, we would have more than doubled the majority that we obtained. It was a most unwarranted attack upon the liberty and the freedom of the people. The taking of the referendum has revealed the fact that the Commonwealth i-3 determinedly opposed to the conscription of our manhood for service abroad. Fortunately, our honorable friends on the opposite side were defeated in their intention. One can imagine what a reign of terror would have ensued had the conscription of manhood for service abroad been affirmed on the 28th October. Having been defeated on that date our honorable friends formed an unholy alliance to fight against those who really represent the will of the people of this country. We on this side represent the voice of the people as expressed at the ballot-box, and well do our honorable friends know that. We see an attempt on their part to use every possible means, scrupulous or otherwise, to evade a general election. They have accused us of being traitors. We are denounced as men who have practically done them an irreparable injury. What injury have we done to them ? We have simply advocated that no Government should be permitted to force the men of this country to do that on which they have a fight to be consulted, and to exercise personal judgment. Because these men have not done what they should, they now accuse us of having done them some irrevocable wrong. It is most unfortunate that we should be obliged to submit to the castigations which have been heaped upon us by members of the Ministerial party. But I can assure them that there is a good time coming, and that just as we have had to suffer here they will have to suffer when they are obliged to confront the electors. I do not wonder that they want to sit here secure, knowing as they do, the fury of the electors.

Senator de Largie:

– The honorable senator is only a political accident.

Senator WATSON:

– And Senator de Largie is more like a pigmy because he was an unknown quantity in Newcastle all the time that I have been associated with it. He had to go to Western Australia to become known at all. If he went to Newcastle to-day he would cut a very sorry figure. I am here as the result of the vote of the electors. I was lor four years president of the Miners Association in Newcastle, and it can be said to my credit that when I was elected to this Parliament it was only the second occasion on which I had sought the suffrages of the people.

Senator Millen:

– If that is the only thing the honorable senator can say for himself, there is very little left for anybody else to say.

Senator WATSON:

– Probably I shall give the Vice-President of the Executive Council food for a little thought later on. I merely wish to exonerate myself from the charge that I am an accident in politics. I am no accident. When I was twelve years of age I entered the mills of Glasgow for the purpose of helping my parents, who were in distress. T worked on what was known as the half-time system - that is to say I went to work one day and to school the next day. When I was fourteen years of age I came to this country. At that time my father was Buffering from miner’s phthisis, and as a result I was denied the opportunity of securing a better education, and of thus fitting myself to play the part which Nature intended that a man with my natural gifts should play*.

Senator Grant:

Senator WATSON:

– The people will have an opportunity of determining that, and I make bold to say, judging by the vote the people recorded at the Military Service Referendum, and the spirit of Democracy they displayed, that those who have followed Mr. Hughes will find that they have gone to their doom.

Senator Story:

– It is dangerous to prophesy.

Senator WATSON:

– It is undoubtedly, but I take the risk. I say definitely now that I would sooner go down with the Labour movement, suffer in its adversity, and endure all that may come as the result of the breach that has taken place, than I would stand defiantly in opposition to the claims which the movement has upon honorable senators in this chamber. I take up that position, and I am sure that I shall never have occasion to regret it. I feel that I have nothing to regret up to the present. I have never tried to be other than a representative of the people, and I shall not do so now. I shall not soil my garments or taint the reputation I have humbly tried to achieve throughout the whole of my life. I am satisfied that when the people are given an opportunity to deal with them, those who have spoken so disparagingly and so bitterly of the Labour party will find that there is a greater voice and a greater power than theirs. Those who have tried to disparage the representatives of the Labour movement, and through their organizations have treated the rank and. file of the movement with ignominy and contempt, will find that the counterblast of public opinion will put them in the place of ignominious defeat which they deservedly occupy at the present time. I shall not trespass further on the time of’ the Senate on this motion, but I should’ like to say that whilst I regret all that has taken place in connexion with the position in which we now find ourselves, the representatives of the people on this side may with honour look to the future. When the opportunity is afforded us to go before the people, we shall have a story to tell them which will certainly bring us back into this chamber again.

Debate (on motion by Senator Lt.Colonel Sir Albert Gould) adjourned.

– The sooner they are disposed of the sooner we shall reach the motion in my name. I repeat that I am opposed to the adjournment of the Senate at this hour.

Senator BARNES:
Victoria

.- Quite a number of things have happened during to-day; but I should like to know from you, Mr. President, whether you propose to answer the question put to you just now by Senator Gardiner?

The PRESIDENT:

– I think that the Senate may very well trust me to make any announcement, that it is proper to make, regarding any matter that concerns the Senate, when the proper time comes.

Senator WATSON (Western Australia) (6.18]. - I desire to bring under the notice of the Minister for Defence a statement which he is reported to have made in connexion with the storage of tar, and also a contradiction of the statement by one of the directors of De Meric Limited, of Sydney. The following article appeared in last Saturday’s Sun -

page 10780

STORAGE OF TAR

Prohibited from March 1. manufacture of toluene.

Melbourne, Saturday

Senator WATSON:

– The article continues -

The Minister added that representatives of the Albion Quarry Co. Proprietary Ltd., which is engaged in the distillation of tar, waited upon him this morning and gave information regarding the production by the company of toluene and benzine. Experiments had been made, but finality had not yet been reached. Messrs. W. Leitch and R. Lewis, Directors of Munitions, were present at the interview, and matters arising out of the desire of the Department to have toluene and benzine manufactured in the Commonwealth were discussed. It was agreed that further communications with the company are to be made.

Mr. Octavius W. Cowley, director of De Meric Ltd., Sydney, writes : -

It is with much astonishment that I have read in your paper of 19th February a statement headed, “ Distilled Coal Tar,” made by the Minister for Defence. The official statement is so misleading that I ask you to give prominence to these facts.

De Meric Ltd., tar distillers, of Sydney and Newcastle, are at present handling approximately two million gallons of coal tar annually, and are distilling 30,000 gallons weekly. They are, in addition, ‘manufacturing benzol, solvent naphtha, and sublimed naphthalene, and many other byproducts of coal tar, and have for twelve months produced and supplied under contract to the Imperial Russian Government, quantities of toluol for the manufacture of high explosives.

I regret to have to write this explanation in direct contradiction of the following statement made by the Minister for Defence : -

Unfortunately no material supplies have been produced, and in only one instance, that of the Australian Gaslight Co., Sydney, is the installation of a plant contemplated capable of producing toluene of the quality required.

De Meric Ltd. have expended a large capital in erecting a refinery capable of dealing with large quantities of tar oils at Newcastle.

The directors are prepared to negotiate with the Minister for Defence to deal with such products and to supply toluene.

I should like to hear what the Minister has to say in explanation of the attitude which he has taken up in this connexion.

Senator KEATING:
Tasmania

– Before the Senate adjourns, I desire to say that I have received communications from Tasmania in reference to some proposition now under consideration by the Federal Government in connexion with the handling of the hop crop. Tasmania, as honorable senators are aware, is peculiarly the hop-producing State of the Commonwealth. I have taken occasion to see the Prime Minister in connexion with the matter. I realize that his time is very fully occupied, and it was only for a couple of moments that I could see him by calling him away from a deputation of great importance which he was attending. I should like to ask whether the Leader of the Senate will, between now and tomorrow, ascertain from the Prime Minister what is the position with regard to this matter, because I propose, to-morrow morning, to ask a question on the subject, and I know that it is difficult for Ministers to obtain replies from the Department for Friday morning. I shall be returning to Tasmania to-morrow, and, in common wit1] other honorable senators who have received communications, I shall, no doubt, be asked to say something definite as to the intentions of the Government in this matter. I ask the Leader of the Government if he will take an opportunity this evening of consulting with the Prime Minister, so that to-morrow he may be in a position to make some definite statement in regard to the matters I refer to.

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

– I ask the Leader of the Government what it is intended to do with regard to private business ? I am interested in one item, No. 6, down in the name of Senator Henderson, and there are other matters for which other honorable senators are responsible, and about which we would like information as to when we are likely to have an opportunity of discussing them.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– Before the Senate adjourns I would like to obtain from the Leader of the Senate some information in regard to two matters. For something like a fortnight, I have had a question on the notice-paper with reference to the delegation to the Imperial Conference, and the appointment of an Industrial Commission to visit America. The first is the more important. It is quite true that the Leader of the Senate in his reply to me today said it would all depend upon a motion on the notice-paper, but I do not think that was really an effective reply to my query. On three or four occasions I have asked the Government if it is their intention to give this Parliament an opportunity to discuss the questions to be submitted to the Imperial Conference before our delegates leave Australian shores. I was asked to postpone my question time and again, and the reply given to-day is in no way satisfactory. As private members we do not know when the delegates are going to leave. We do know the personnel of the delegation - namely, the Prime Minister (Mr. Hughes), the Eight

Senator MCDOUGALL:
New South Wales

, - I asked a question yesterday, and again to-day, which the Leader of the Senate seemed to treat as a joke, but when I read a cablegram which was published in yesterday’s Herald he will understand that it deals with a very serious matter -

Empire War Council

Scope is very Wide. (United Service Special Cable.)

London, Tuesday, 8.35 p.m.

The business-paper of the Empire War Council has ‘been drafted.

It is of the widest scope, covering the conduct of the war, admission of the Dominions to a voice in foreign policy and war aims, freedom of the sea and sea power, the German colonies, and the control of the Pacific. It is understood that an agreement, under which a representative of the Opposition would join the Australian delegation, would be welcomed, as it would insure full Commonwealth authorization upon urgent vital questions, but it is impossible to postpone decisions unless the Australian delegates leave immediately.

Mr. W. F. Massey, Prime Minister of New, Zealand, expects that the preliminary meeting of the Council will be held in ten days. It is believed that the delegates- will be admitted to the War Cabinet without delay.

Anybody reading between the lines of this cablegram will see that the authorities in Great Britain want representatives of all classes in Australia, and consider that they are not getting such representation. It is stated clearly that the authorities want a representative of the Labour party, which represents a majority of the people of this country. It is suggested, according to this message, that the proposed Australian delegation does not represent the people of Australia. It is not too late to send a representative delegation. I bring this cablegram under the notice of the Government, and hope that they0 will act upon the suggestion which it contains. To my mind, the solution of the difficulty is easy, and it is that the High Commissioner should be authorized to attend the meeting of the Council, so that Australia may be represented from the beginning. It is the duty of the Government to see if it cannot be done. If Mr. Fisher is selected to represent the great Labour movement . of Australia, I believe that there is no man in the, movement who would not be perfectly satisfied. I am not allowed at this stage to discuss the platform of the War Conference, but here it is set forth in print. No one wants to know the minor details. We wish to know what the delegates are going to discuss in reference to Australia, and, according to this cablegram, one question will be the control of the Pacific. That is a matter on which Australia wants a say. It is a matter on which the Labour party wants a say, and one on which ‘ it ought to get a say. If the proposed delegation leaves in a few days, it will not represent the people of Australia, and the Government cannot ask the people who are left behind to bow the knee to whatever is done by them. If their intentions are not criticised before they go, their actions will be when they come. back. The ‘people of Australia w.ill have their say then if they do not have it now.

Senator MILLEN:
Vice President of the Executive Council · New South Wales · NAT

The PRESIDENT:

– The honorable senator cannot interrupt the proceedings of the Senate to do so now. The Standing Orders are mandatory on the point.

A division having been called for,

The PRESIDENT:

– I appoint Senator de Largie toller for the “ Ayes,” and Senator Stewart teller for the “ Noes.”

Senator O’Keefe having risen to cross the chamber,

The PRESIDENT:

– Order ! The honorable senator is too late. The tellers have been appointed.

The -Senate divided -

Ayes … … 17

Noes … … … 15

Majority … … 2

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Senate adjourned to 8.39 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 1 March 1917, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1917/19170301_senate_6_81/>.

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Senate 1 March 1917

HOME SERVICE PROCLAMATION

Senator FINDLEY:Victoria

Senator MILLEN:Vice-President of the Executive Council · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

The PRESIDENT:

QUESTION

PROTECTION: PROHIBITION OF MEETING

Senator FINDLEY:

Senator MILLEN:NAT

QUESTION

PAIRS

Senator GARDINER:NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator MILLEN:NAT

Senator GARDINER:

Senator ALBERT GOULD:NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1910; LP from 1913

The PRESIDENT:

Senator GARDINER:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator GARDINER:

Senator Guthrie:

Senator GARDINER:

Senator MILLEN:

Senator LYNCH:WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator RUSSELL:Honorary Minister · VICTORIA · NAT

Senator Lynch:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator DE LARGIE:WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator Keating:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator KEATING:

Senator RUSSELL:

Senator GRANT:NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator MILLEN:

Senator McKISSOCK:VICTORIA

Senator MILLEN:

Senator MULLAN:QUEENSLAND · ALP

Senator PEARCE:Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

QUESTION

PREMIER OF TASMANIA

Senator GARDINER:

Senator MILLEN:NAT

Senator GARDINER:

Senator MILLEN:

PAPERS

QUESTION

IMPERIAL CONFERENCE

Senator McDOUGALL:NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator MILLEN:NAT

QUESTION

KALGOORLIE TO PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY

Senator TURLEY:QUEENSLAND

Senator MILLEN:NAT

Senator TURLEY:QUEENSLAND · ALP

Senator MILLEN:

Senator Turley:

Senator Russell:

QUESTION

ADMINISTRATOR OF NORTHERN TERRITORY - CHAIRMAN OF RIVER MURRAY WATERS COMMISSION

Senator FINDLEY:

Senator Turley:

Senator FINDLEY:

Senator MILLEN:NAT

Senator FINDLEY:

Senator MILLEN:

QUESTION

PRICE OF STOCK AND MEAT

Senator MULLAN:QUEENSLAND

Senator MILLEN:NAT

QUESTION

PROSECUTION OF MR. COOMBE, M.H.A

Senator GARDINER:

Senator PEARCE:NAT

Senator PEARCE:

Senator Gardiner:

Senator PEARCE:

QUESTION

ADVANCES TO SOLDIERS

Senator O’KEEFE:TASMANIA

Senator PEARCE:NAT

Senate
1 March 1917

Senator FINDLEY:
Victoria

Senator MILLEN:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator GARDINER:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator ALBERT GOULD:
NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1910; LP from 1913

Senator LYNCH:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator RUSSELL:
Honorary Minister · VICTORIA · NAT

Senator DE LARGIE:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator McKISSOCK:
VICTORIA

Senator MULLAN:
QUEENSLAND · ALP

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator McDOUGALL:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator TURLEY:
QUEENSLAND

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator TURLEY:
QUEENSLAND · ALP

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator MULLAN:
QUEENSLAND

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

Senator O’KEEFE:
TASMANIA

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

Senator BLAKEY:
VICTORIA

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

Senator NEEDHAM:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator GRANT:
New South Wales

Senator BAKHAP:
Tasmania

Senator SENIOR:
South Australia

Senator NEWLANDS:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

Senator NEWLANDS:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP; NAT from 1917