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House of Representatives
11 June 1930

12^th Parliament · 1^st Session

QUESTION
- TIMBER INDUSTRY
QUESTION
- QUEENSLAND CANE-FIELDS
TARIFF SCHEDULE
WORLD KNEW OUR SECRET!
QUESTION
- CANBERRA COTTAGES
QUESTION
- NEW TARIFF
QUESTION
- AGRICULTURAL MACHINERY
BRANDING OF FOOTWEAR
N.S.W. NEEDS FOOTWEAR BRANDED
QUESTION
- DEFENCE WORKS
QUESTION
- SUGAR CASTE
QUESTION
- ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY
QUESTION
- BRITISH ECONOMIC MISSION
QUESTION
- COMMONWEALTH BANK RESIDENCE, LISMORE
QUESTION
- ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY
QUESTION
- SIMPSON & SON LIMITED METAL FACTORY
QUESTION
- ONIONS
QUESTION
- NOTE PRINTING OFFICE
QUESTION
- COMMONWEALTH BANK
QUESTION
- ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE
QUESTION
- AUTOMATIC EXCHANGES
CENTRAL RESERVE BANK BILL
ADJOURNMENT
- Note Printing Office

Mr. Speaker (Hon.NormanMakin) took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and offered prayers.

page 2613

QUESTION

TIMBER INDUSTRY

Tariffboard’sreport

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the report of the Tariff Board on the timber industry been presented to the Acting Minister for Trade and Customs? Ifso, when will he be able to vouchsafe some further information in regard to it?

Mr FORDE:
Assistant Minister assisting the Minister for Customs · CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND · ALP

– I have received the board’s report, and it will be considered as early as possible. For obvious reasons I can make no further statement on the matter at this stage.

page 2613

QUESTION

QUEENSLAND CANE-FIELDS

Southern European Labour

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Has the Prime Minister read newspaper statements regarding the British Preference League, which is demanding that British workers shall have preference in employment on the cane-fields of Northern Queensland? What steps does the right honorable gentleman propose to take to ensure that Australian workmen will get a fair deal in that industry?

Mr SCULLIN:
Minister for External Affairs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

– I have read the statements referred to by the honorable member. So far as the Commonwealth Government is concerned, the matter is receiving consideration.

Mr MACKAY:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

– Has the attention of the Prime Minister been drawn to a message published in the Daily Guardian of to-day, headed “Racial Fight at Innisfail “, and containing this paragraph: -

Interest in the fight between the Italians and Australians over employment on the canefields has been sharpened by a letter from Mr. Martens, M.P. for Herbert, in which he. expresses opinions which are interpreted as indicating that unless southern Europeans are restricted on the cane-fields, Australia’s protection policy may no longer apply to the sugar industry.

Was the honorable member for Herbert expressing the views of the Government when he wrote to the secretary of the British Preference League -

I hare advised the employers’ representatives of the sugar industry that the surest way to lose the embargo is to continue in certain areas to give 100 per cent. preference to southern Europeans.

Mr SCULLIN:

– The whole subject of the control and protection of the sugar industry is now being considered by the Government.

page 2614

TARIFF SCHEDULE

Dr EARLE PAGE:
COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– The Daily Pictorial ofyesterday published this paragraph -

page 2614

WORLD KNEW OUR SECRET!

“tariffleakage “,saysimporter.

Asserting that oversea countries knew of the heavy new tariff before Australia, Mr. P. W. Fisher, importer, returned yesterday after a visit to Japan.

Mr. Fisher, who is a Melbourneman, and an importer of goods from China and Japan, said that, when he sailed from Australia at the beginning of March, there was no rumour of the prohibitive tariff.

Yet, at Manila (Philippines) everybody knew about it, and the local merchants were delighted. liters was nothing official till he got a cable in Japan.

Will the Acting Minister for Trade and Customs cause an investigation to be made to discover whether, and, if so, how such a leakage of information occurred?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– I have been told that Mr. Fisher made a general allegation, but produced no evidence in support of it. Although I understand that the statement is without foundation, I shall inquire further into the matter.

page 2614

QUESTION

CANBERRA COTTAGES

Construction by Day Laboub.

Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

– A paragraph published in the Canberra Times of today in regard to the erection of cottages in Canberra, says -

In conformity with the policy of the Government, the houses will be erected by the Department of Works by day labour.

BRANDING OF FOOTWEAR

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I direct the attention of the AttorneyGeneral to the following statement, which appeared in last Sunday’s Guardian: -

page 2614

N.S.W. NEEDS FOOTWEAR BRANDED

From time to tune footwear manufacturers of New South Wales have approached various governments with a request for a Footwear Branding Act, making it compulsory for footwear to be branded on the soles with the name of the maker and the country of origin. Such an act islong overdue.

Will the honorable gentleman urge the Government to consider and take some action in the matter ?

Mr BRENNAN:
Attorney-General · BATMAN, VICTORIA · ALP

– A similar matter has been brought under my notice by the honorable member for South Sydney (Mr. E. Riley). I am having a considered statement prepared in relation to it.

page 2615

QUESTION

DEFENCE WORKS

Mr ELDRIDGE:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Is a Works Branch (Military) part of the establishment of the Defence Department?
Is it the current practice for this Works Branch (Military) to requisition the Department of Works to carry out work connected with maintenance, new works, &c., and at the same time supply estimates, specifications and plans ?
Are all these checked by the Department of Works?
Is it a fact that Defence is the only department carrying a Works Branch; if so, why?
Can the Department of Worksabs orb this branch, thereby effecting an economy in money and administration?

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

Yes.
It is the practice of the Military Works Branch to requisition the Department of Works to carry out works in connexion with maintenance and new works for which provision is made in the Estimates under the control of the Department of Works. In addition to other duties, certain services such as camp works, &c, are ‘designed and carried out by the Military Works Branch.
All works for which provision is made in Estimates under the control of the Department of Works are completed by that department.
In addition to dealing with current work this branch is an essential portion of the defence organization, and the small nucleus receive training and preparation for the important duties which would be allotted to that branch on the outbreak of war. The branch is required to prepare or to assist other branches of the department in the preparation of schemes of defence and mobilization for defence.
No.

page 2615

QUESTION

SUGAR CASTE

Disease-resisting Varieties.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Has his attention been drawn to the great failure of the sugar crop in Louisiana, due to what is known as the “ Mosaic disease “, whereby the crop was only 42,500 tons?
Is it a fact that, as the result of experiments in Java, a disease-resisting cane was imported into Louisiana, with the result that in 1929 the crop had risen to 208,000 tons ?
Will he cause inquiries to be made from the Proefstation Oost, Java, with a view to introducing into Queensland and Northern New South Wales the disease-resisting cane?

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– Inquiries have been instituted through the Council for Scientific and IndustrialResearch, and a reply will be furnished as early as possible.

page 2615

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY

Use of Launches

Mr ELDRIDGE:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Are motor launches, such as the Victor and Garnet, made available for the use of senior officers of the Navy?
Are parcels or packets allowed to be carried by these launches?
Why cannot senior officers use other launches instead of having additional launches supplied for their special convenience?

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

Yes; and for any work for which they are suitable.
Yes.
The establishments to which these launches are, attached are isolated and access by boat is essential for efficient working. I am assured that the number of launches is reduced to aminimum.

page 2615

QUESTION

BRITISH ECONOMIC MISSION

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

What are the names of the members of the delegation from England known as the “big four”?
What was, the number of persons accompanying each of these gentlemen, and in what capacity were they travelling with the delegation?
What was the total number in the party?
What were the names of the Australian officials who assisted this delegation, what were their salaries and, approximately, the allowances paid to them during their attendance on the delegation?
What was the name of each hotel at which the delegation stayed, what was the total of each hotel bill, and the amounts paid by the Commonwealth for motor cars, theatres, tips, and sundries?
What was the cost of the various special trains, with meals, wines, cigars, tobacco, tips, &c.
What was paid for steamer accommodation to and from Tasmania?
If the return passages to England were paid by the Commonwealth, what was the cost ?
Will the Prime Minister furnish a list of any expenses incurred which are not included in the above?

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– The preparation of the details asked for will involve the dissection of a large number of accounts and will occupy a considerable time. I am, however, looking into the matter and will further advise the honorable member as soon as possible.

page 2616

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH BANK RESIDENCE, LISMORE

Mr ELDRIDGE:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; LANG LAB from 1931

asked the Minister for Works and Railways, upon notice -

Does the Department of Works intend to build a bank and residence at Lismore, New South Wales, for the Commonwealth Bank?
If so, is this work to be performed by day labour or by contract?
Would the contract method entail sending a clerk of works to Lismore for practically the whole period of construction?
If the work is done by day labour, would the clerk of works concerned be allowed to select his own foremen to carry on the work, and would it allow local workers to be engaged, and enable the clerk of works to spend not more than perhaps one day a fortnight at Lismore, instead of remaining there until the completion?
Will the Minister consider whether the policy of day labour for country works in such cases is the better method ?

Mr LYONS:
Minister for Works and Railways · through Mr. Beasley · ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Yes - at the request of the Commonwealth Bank.
It is proposed to invite tenders.
No. During the first stages of construction constant supervision by a clerk of works would be required. At later stages periodical visits would suffice.
The clerk of works would engage the necessary foremen and would employ local labour as far as practicable. The amount of supervision as indicated in (3) would not be varied to any material extent if the work were carried out by departmental labour.
Yes. Each case is carefully considered on its merits and the method of execution is decided upon in consultation with the bank authorities.

page 2616

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY

withdrawal of survey ships.

Mr MORGAN:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Whether, in view of retrenchments in the Navy Department, and the withdrawal of sur vey ships hitherto operating, he will indicate what action, if any, is being taken to safeguard navigation interests in Australian waters ?

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– There are in existence charts of the various routes in Australian waters which are ordinarily followed by shipping and these are available to all ship-masters. The naval surveying vessel, when in commission, simply seeks to improve these charts.

page 2616

QUESTION

SIMPSON & SON LIMITED METAL FACTORY

Mr YATES:
through Mr. Martens

asked the Acting Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

Whether he will pay a visit of inspection to the factory of Messrs. A. Simpson & Son, Limited, Adelaide, and so place the firm in a position equal to that of other firms engaged in the metal industry?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– I make a practice of visiting every factory possible and on the occasion of my first visit to Adelaide; I will certainly make an inspection of this factory if at all possible.

page 2616

QUESTION

ONIONS

Imports and Exports

Mr FRANCIS:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

askedthe Acting Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

What were the quantities and values of onions imported into Australia during the years 1927, 1 928 and 1929?
From what countries were they imported, and what were the quantities and values from each country?
What were the values and quantities of onions exported from Australia during the years 1927, 1928 and 1929, and to what countries were they exported?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : - 1 and 2.-

3.-

page 2617

QUESTION

NOTE PRINTING OFFICE

Mr YATES:
through Mr. Martens

asked the Minister for Works and Railways,upon notice - 1.Is it proposed to make extensions to the Note Printing Department in Melbourne?

If so, will specifications be supplied and public tenders called for the supply of strongroom doors and fire-proof safes?

Mr LYONS:
through Mr. Beasley · ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Yes, this work, the estimated cost of which is £130,000, is in hand by departmental labour.
The honorable member’s question will be referred to the Commonwealth Bank authorities who will install the strongroom doors and safes.

page 2617

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH BANK

Rates of Interest

Mr LAZZARINI:
through Mr. Watkins

asked the Treasurer, upon notice - 1.Has he yet received information to enable him to answer the following questions asked by the honorable member for Werriwa : -

What is the total amount of credits made available by the Commonwealth Bank to the Associated Banks for assisting primary and secondary production?
What is the rate of interest paid to the Commonwealth Bank by the Associated Banks for such credits?
What is the rate of interest charged by the Associated Banks to primary and secondary producers for such credits?
1. If he has not yet received the information, can he say when it will be available?

Mr THEODORE:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

and 2. The information has not yet been received, but it is expected that it will be available to-morrow.

page 2617

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE

Clerical Positions

Mr GULLETT:
HENTY, VICTORIA

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Is it a fact that the positions of enlisted clerks at headquarters of the Royal Australian Air Force, many of whom are returned soldiers and in many instances have been in the Air Force since its formation, are to be taken over by officers of the Commonwealth Public Service?
Would the change mean an increase in the administrative costs of air force headquarters ?
Are the enlisted clerks at present performing the duties to be given an opportunity of selection for appointment to the Commonwealth Public Service?

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– The question of the employment of civilians in certain clerical positions in the Air Force is at present receiving consideration, but the matter has not yet been finalized.

page 2618

QUESTION

AUTOMATIC EXCHANGES

Mr MACKAY:

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

Whether it is a fact that the predecessor of the Postmaster-General stated in September, 1028, that, in consideration of the success of the rural automatic exchange, 100 Of these plants would be purchased by his department?
What is the number and location of the rural automatic exchanges in operation?
Have any recent reports been received in reference to the working of the existing exchanges; if so, what is the nature of these reports?

Mr LYONS:
through Mr. Beasley · ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

Yes.
Seven; Sutherland (New South Wales), Springvale, Barep, Deer Park, Vermont, Buninyong and Kariah (Victoria).
Recent reports indicate that the plants are working with general satisfaction! Tenders for rural automatic exchanges are due to close on the 21st July next, and, having regard to the present financial situation, as many as possible will be purchased for use in each State.

page 2618

CENTRAL RESERVE BANK BILL

In committee (Consideration resumed from 10th June, vide page 2603) :

Clause 4 (Definitions) :

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- Does the Treasurer consider that the definition of “Bank” is sufficiently explicit? He has not . adopted the definition that appears in the. South African legislation. Possibly, many firms that at present do ii certain amount of banking business would not be included in it. Would it not be wise to adopt the South African definition, which is as follows: -

Bank or banker means and includes every person, firm, and company using in its description or title bank or banker or banking, and every person, firm, or company receiving or accepting deposits of money subject to withdrawal by cheque, draft, or order.

Mr THEODORE:
Treasurer · Dalley · ALP

– I do not think that the wider -definition suggested by the honorable member for Swan is necessary. It may, perhaps, be advisable to consider what class of institution shall be regarded as a bank. “Bank” is a definitely understood term; it applies to a certain class of commercial business. I do not apprehend that any difficulty will arise in the application of this definition; its application will depend largely upon the terms laid down by the central bank. This definition is required so as to make it clear that the Commonwealth. Bank shall be regarded as a bank for the purposes of this legislation.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 5 and 6 agreed to.

Clause 7 (Capital of the bank).

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- This clause provides that the whole of the capital of the reserve bank shall be subscribed by the Government; in other words, that it shall be taken from the funds of the Commonwealth Bank of Australia. The question arises whether the central reserve bank shall be controlled wholly by the Government, or whether the public shall be asked to subscribe a certain proportion of its capital, and have a voice in the election of its directors. The latter policy has been adopted in the majority of other countries, but principally where reserve banks have been newly created. I feel strongly on this matter, because I do not want established a bank that will be subject to political influence. I hope that the Treasurer and honorable members opposite will not regard my remarks as a reflection upon the present Administration; they apply to any administration. This will be a big trading organization; it will wield considerable influence; and there always will be danger if it is dominated politically. It is not my intention to move an amendment to the clause; but I raise the question so that honorable members may consider whether it is wiser to have a bank controlled wholly by the Government, or influenced partly by the public.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

. In this age it is amusing to hear an honorable member raise an objection to political control. From the cradle to the grave, we are subject to some form or other of political interference. When one is born, one must be registered ; and thereafter one’s actions are influenced to a greater or less extent by political action. Wherever we move, we are under political control. Any member, of this Parliament who does not believe in political action has no right to be here. The honorable member for Swan (Mr. Gregory) has expressed antagonism to control, politically, of the proposed central reserve bank. When the Labour party first established the Commonwealth Bank it appointed two gentlemen to control that institution, one as Governor and the other- -as Deputy Governor. Can any honorable member point the finger of scorn at the administration of those gentlemen? They controlled its affairs without undue interference, and made a success of it. The Country party is a political association, and is dominated by politics. The mere fact that it is represented in this House by a number of honorable members shows that it takes a keen interest in the politics of this country. Why should not appointments to the board of the proposed central reserve bank be made on political line3? We cannot get away from political control; that is the atmosphere in which we live. Most of the members of this Parliament have to submit their names to a pre-selection ballot, and then to an election by the people; and those returned to Parliament should be regarded as capable of expressing the views of the people whom they represent. At the last general election, I was opposed by a business-man ; but a majority of the electors decided that because of my political experience, I was more fitted to represent them. The representatives of the people in this Parliament, therefore, should not be debarred from appointment to the proposed board. Persons who have succeeded in obtaining the confidence of the people should be capable of representing the taxpayers on the board of a central reserve bank, which should be controlled by government appointees, particularly as the Government has to find the money for the bank.

Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

– The private banks are finding the money.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I understand that the associated banks are to lodge between £18,000,000 and £22,000,000 of their funds, but £2,000,000 of capital is to be provided by the Government. As the board is to control the note issue, which is a very important responsibility, we have the responsibility of ensuring that the note issue shall be safe-guarded to protect the interests of the people. I do not think that any exception can be taken to political control in the case of a central reserve bank, although strong exception was taken to such control by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Latham). If we do not have political control what form of control should be adopted ?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I ask the Treasurer whether something cannot be done in the matter of the provision of capital in conformity with the practice adopted since the war in connexion with the establishment of central reserve banks in other countries, by providing that within a limited number of years the public may acquire some interest in the capital of the proposed central reserve bank. I make the suggestion, not because I am afraid of the political control referred to by the honorable member for South Sydney (Mr. E. Riley), but in order to ensure, so far as possible, continuity of policy, in connexion with the bank itself. Alexander Hamilton pointed out a century ago in connexion with the banking system of the United States of America, that if appointments are to be made periodically by governments having different policies, there is more likely to be a diverging bank policy than if control is exercised by a board elected by private shareholders, whose opinions would not tend to change to the same degree. Although this suggestion was made so long ago, the argument is sound to-day. That that is so is borne out by the. fact that in various countries in which central reserve banks have been created since the termination of the war such a policy has been adopted. The trouble that arose during and after the termination of the war resulted in an endeavour being made to ensure continuity of policy by introducing private capital. The Central Reserve Bank in Denmark has a capital of 27,000,000 kronen, of which 3,000,000 kronen are held by the State. In Greece, which established a central reserve bank in 1927, the Government took up the whole of the capital when the bank was established ; but provision was made that, within two years, the whole of the capital should be offered to the public, and that ultimately not more than one-tenth should be held by the State. The capital of the

Central Reserve Bank of Esthonia was 5,000,000 kronen, made up of 100,000 shares each valued at 50 kronen, and provision was made that within two years the capital should be offered for public subscription, and within one year over 30,000 shares were sold to the public. In Bulgaria there had been a banking department of State - practically a nationalized banking system - but they established what was to a degree a State central bank. Ultimately the central bank had to be made completely independent of government control and its independence guaranteed to the satisfaction of the League of Nations. I urge the Government to consider the desirability of adopting a similar policy in connexion with the proposed central reserve bank, and to decide whether in the next year or two the capital of the bank should not be made available to public subscription. Provision should be made whereby the shareholders should have representation on the board. That is one of the safeguards in the matter of continuity, of policy that we desire, and I urge the Government to consider the suggestion, as it may be. a means of stabilizing the bank at the outset and obtaining the confidence of the people in the institution.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- As the trading banks have to contribute approximately £22,000,000 in the form of levies of 10 per cent, and 5 per cent., they should have some voice in the general control of the bank. I am not opposing the principle of a central reserve bank, which is sound, as it ‘ stands for stability in finance. Mr. Montagu Norman, the Governor of the Bank of England, in a publication entitled Better English Banking, states -

There appears to be no convenient record of charters, laws or statutes, nor any scientific opinion as to how much liberty or how much power of control is or should be permitted.

– I support the suggestion that before honorable members give further consideration to the bill it should be referred to a select committee. We cannot afford to ignore the resolution of the Labour conference. We were told in the House yesterday that the policy of the Labour party was directed by its annual conference, and that it was the duty of the Labour Cabinet to take its directions from that body.

Mr Lazzarini:

– Just as the party opposite takes its directions from the Nationalist conference.

Mr NAIRN:

– That may be so.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.Order! There is no amendment before the Chair- referring to a select committee.

Honorable members must now confine their attention to clause 7.

Mr WEST:
East Sydney

.- We are dealing with one of the most important subjects that could be considered by any Parliament. We are endeavouring, by this bill, and under this clause, to evolve a system of credit that is urgently needed for the successful conduct of commerce and industry. The clause under discussion provides for the transfer of £2,000,000 from the Commonwealth Bank to the proposed reserve bank, which could not carry out its functions if it were not provided with capital. I am satisfied in my own mind, and I believe that the majority of honorable members will agree with me, that there is no need to refer the bill to an outside committee. Those who have framed this measure are as well acquainted with the financial needs of the Commonwealth as any committee that could be selected. The original capital of the Commonwealth Bank was £11,000. This amount was provided by the Treasury and subsequently refunded. As one who helped to place the proposal for the establishment of that bank on the Labour platform many years ago, I recall that it was intended that the institution should operate as a reserve bank as well as a trading bank. When the Bruce-Page Government gained office it took away from the Commonwealth Bank its function as a reserve bank, although the bank was established for that purpose. I ask honorable members not to oppose this clause.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 8 -

The reserve bank shall, in addition to any other powers conferred or limitations imposed by this act, have power -

to issue notes in accordance with Part IV. of this act;

to buy and sell in the open market in the Commonwealth of Australia or abroad cable transfers, bankers’ acceptances and bills of exchange;

to buy, sell, discount or re-discount securities issued by the Government of the Commonwealth, or of any State, or of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, or of any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State;

to act as agent for the issue and management of loans on behalf of the Commonwealth or of any State and of any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State;

to make advances direct to other corporations carrying on the business of banking or re-discount for such other corporations bills having a currency of not more than one hundred and twenty days to date of maturity, including bills drawn on London and on foreign countries;

to establish accounts with other central reserve banks in the United Kingdom or foreign countries ;

to accept money on deposit oncurrent account and collect money for public corporations and others;

to make loans or advances against the security of stock or debentures of the Government of the Commonwealth or of a State, or any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State, or good trade bills, such bills having a currency of not more than six monthsto date of maturity;

to make advances to the Government of the Commonwealth or of a State, or to any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State;

to buy, sell and deal in specie, bullion, and gold dust;

) tobuy and sell securities for customers; and

to do anything incidental to any of its powers.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I move -

That, at the end of paragraph 6, the following words be added: - “ Provided that the reserve bank shall not draw or accept bills of exchange payable otherwise than on demand.”

I have moved this amendment for two reasons; first, that it is essential that the resources of the central reserve bank shall be as liquid as possible, and that, of course, can be absolutely ensured if the amendment that I have moved - that the central reserve bank shall not draw or accept billsof exchange payable otherwise than on demand - is added at the end of paragraph b. Such a bill of exchange would be in the same category as cheques, upon the presentation of which cash may be obtained. I can see no objection to this amendment, if it is intended that the bank itself shall not engage in general exchange business. I take it that the aim of the Government is to make this new bank purely a central reserve bank. The honorable member for Corangamite (Mr. Crouch) was especially keen about the bank being purely a central reserve bank. The Government should, therefore, be prepared to accept the amendment that I have moved. The eleventh point of Sir Ernest Harvey’s brochure on central banks -is that the central bank should not engage on its own account in general exchange business for the purpose of earning profits. Paragraph b, as it stands, would enable the central reserve bank to go on the open market for the purpose of drawing bills for any duration, and thus to encroach upon the business of the trading banks or of the Commonwealth Bank in its new form after its central banking function has been detached from it. The central reserve bank would, in that case, be able to enter into competition with those banks which it is primarily intended to assist.

Mr West:

– Does not the right honorable member think that bills of exchange would be more likely to go to the central reserve bank than to. other banks?

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– That is not the intention of the bill. The intention of the bill is to make it easy for the trading banks which have drawn such bills to have them discounted if so desired. I think that the. Treasurer will agree that the main function of the central reserve bank is to stand behind other banking institutions. I take it that there is no intention in the Government’s mind or in the bill that the central reserve bank should engage in the open exchange business for the purpose of making profits. I should, therefore, like the position safeguarded in some way.

Mr Lewis:

– Why should not the central reserve bank have the right to make profits on bills of exchange? That is a function of the ordinary trading banks.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · FSU; CP from 1920

– The Commonwealth Bank, when the central reserve bank has been established, will, undoubtedly, enter into this business, but it is not the function of the central reserve bank to enter into competition with other banks a percentage of whose deposits are in its keeping for the purpose of providing the assets that are necessary to enable it to function.

Mr Lewis:

– Is not the amendment to the effect that bills of exchange shall be accepted only when payable on demand?

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– This is a question, not of accepting cheques payable on demand, but of buying and selling in the open market in the Commonwealth of Australia or abroad, cable transfers, bankers’ acceptances and bills of exchange. The central reserve bank, under this clause, will be able to buy, sell, discount or re-discount securities. If the amendment that I have moved is not acceptable to the Government, I ask that it amend the clause so as to ensure that the central reserve bank shall not engage in the open exchange business for the purpose of making profits.

Mr THEODORE:
Treasurer · Dalley · ALP

. - The amendment is altogether too restrictive. The central reserve bank should not engage in general exchange business for the purpose of making profits, and should not compete with other banks which have been established primarily for the purpose of making profits. But it may happen that the central reserve bank will, under certain circumstances, enter upon exchange business in exactly the same manner as the Commonwealth Bank has done in the exercise of its central reserve banking powers. It is left to the discretion of the directors not to encroach upon any class of business which, properly, is not the function of the central reserve bank. This powers, conferred upon the bank under this clause are restricted under Clause 9.

Dr Earle Page:

– Can the Treasurer suggest any modification of the amendment so that the intention of the bill may be better understood?

Mr THEODORE:

– I have already stated that it will not be part of the policy of the bank to enter into competition with other banks.

Mr Gullett:

– Could not that intention be made plain in the bill?-

Mr THEODORE:

– The honorable member will realize that Clause 8 confers upon the bank certain powers which are restricted under clause 9, which contains inhibitions and prohibitions which are essential in order to establish the character of the central reserve bank. They are in accordance with the orthodox principles of central reserve banking as laid down by Sir Ernest Harvey.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

. If the reserve bank is to be successful and to make profits why should it not sell bills of exchange in the open market ? Its success will ensure the stability of the other banks.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– But it is not to be a trading bank.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I understand that, but it should be empowered to make as much profit as it can.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- I am sure that the Treasurer has not the slightest intention that the reserve bank should operate for the making of profit.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– But it should.

Mr Theodore:

– It will make some profit I assure the honorable member.

Mr GREGORY:

– The main purpose of the central bank is to regulate the finances of the community, and according to every authority I have read, the first essential is that its assets shall be liquid.

Mr Theodore:

– Hear, hear !

Mr GREGORY:

– Therefore, I think that the amendment should be accepted by the Treasurer. It is important that when a demand is made upon a central bank it should be able to realize some of its assets quickly in order to provide the money that is required,

Mr YATES:
Adelaide

.- Will some high panjandrum of finance, who thoroughly understands banking, explain what is meant by the liquefying of assets ? The workers have been fooled too long by the legerdemain of bankers who pretend to pull rabbits out of hats, and I shall .put forth every effort to loosen the stranglehold of the money power. If I want to raise money, I deposit the deeds of my house as security for the amount which the bank agrees to advance. To the extent of the overdraft allowed to me, I can draw cheques which become currency.

Mr Gregory:

– The central bank would not advance money on the honorable member’s house.

Mr YATES:

– Why not? One can get from the banks as much money as he requires if he has enough houses to offer as security.

Mr Paterson:

– -But not from a central reserve bank.

Mr YATES:

– That is a little more of the dope that is fed to the workers. After all, the central bank is merely the warehouse which keeps reserve stocks upon which the retail houses engaged in banking draw. The honorable member for Swan (Mr. Gregory) says that it is essential that the assets of a reserve bank shall be liquid. A bank will advance on the security of a factory or a pastoral holding or a prospective wool clip. A factory is just as frozen an asset as is my house.

Mr Paterson:

– But the reserve bank would not advance on those securities.

Mr YATES:

– When honorable members talk of liquid assets, the general public imagines that the assets will be contained in bottles standing on shelves in the banking chamber. The whole scheme is a huge joke. If a borrower can offer sufficient security, banks will liquefy the earth.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- There seems to be a good deal of confusion in the minds of honorable members regarding the difference between trading banks and the central reserve bank. Finance affects the foundation of our well-being, and it is essential that we should know what we are doing. I have listened this afternoon to statements regarding the awful effects of financial control and the machinery of credit, but it is obvious that the advance of civilization and the betterment of mankind during the last 100 years have been rendered possible only by modern advances in the use of the machinery of credit. The statement that the community is being reduced to rags because of methods of financial control is mere bunkum. But for the modern machinery of credit Australia could not have developed as it has, and its people would be much worse off than they are.

Mr Yates:

– The rags of the people are very real to-day.

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– They may be, but they are rarer than they were 100 years ago, and even the most impoverished sections of the community are better off than used to be the case in respect of sanitary conditions, education, and the general standard of living. The development of credit has made more work. Because credit is of such importance to the welfare of the community, I am anxious that the machinery to be created for its utilization shall be efficient. The trading banks will pay into the reserve banks £15,000,000 of their cash resources which are now used as till money or as reserves against a “run”. If the private banks find it necessary at the present time to keep a large sum in cash, it is reasonable that this Parliament should insist that when their money is paid into the reserve bank it shall be kept in a liquid form. The Treasurer agrees with me that the central reserve bank should not, for the sake of profit, buy and sell bills of exchange on the open market, although, occasionally, it may be necessary for the bank to operate in that way. I do not think that the public or the trading banks will be properly safeguarded by the clause, but if some amendment more elastic than that I have proposed is suggested, I shall accept it.

Mr WEST:
East Sydney

.- I do not think that the mover of the amendment understands the intention of the clause. If we debar the central bank from buying bills of exchange it will be deprived of its legitimate business. It may have an opportunity to buy international exchange. If the power to do so were granted, the general public would have greater confidence in its stability. The right honorable member has evidently considered only the likelihood of a private bank being deprived of this business.

Dr Earle Page:

– The Treasurer has intimated that the bank will not usually carry on this business.

Mr WEST:

– The right honorable member does not know what the bank will do. It has such great potentialities for good that one cannot yet realize how beneficial its influence will be on the community. At the last general election the people of Australia expressed their confidence in the Government to initiate a far-seeing measure such as this, and I am glad that it has not failed in its task. Those who seek to deprive the bank of this function are ill-advised. A crisis has arisen that demands every effort being used to remove the flaws that exist in our economic system. It is our duty to establish precedents. Some time ago I drew the attention of the honorable member for Gippsland (Mr. Paterson) to the fact that Australia had already established precedents. What if we do occasionally make an error? That is the privilege of every progressive body. I appeal to the right honorable member for Cowper (Dr. Earle Page) not to persist in his endeavour to deprive the central reserve bank of this power.

Amendment negatived.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I move -

That after the word “ securities “, paragraph c, the following words be inserted: - “having a currency of not more than two years.”

The central reserve bank is being brought into being to make certain that the required credit to be provided shall be available for issue should trouble arise. That cannot be done if the bank’s assets are “ frozen.” Most other countries which have established central reserve banks have taken steps to ensure that the various methods of investing the assets of those banks shall allow of the securities being converted into cash in an instant, so that if a run on a bank takes place, and, say, £1,000,000, is needed to tide it over its immediate difficulty, the central reserve bank can convert its resources immediately to meet it. For that reason, central reserve banks tend to define the quality of the securities in which their money is invested. As a rule, they choose trade bills of very definite and shortdated maturity, say, 90 days, and at the end of the period the asset is selfliquidating. The bill as it now reads gives power to the central reserve bank to buy securities of the Commonwealth, of any State, of municipalities, and so on, of any maturity whatsoever. It might invest in securities of the cities of Grafton or Geelong, maturing in 1960 or 1980.

Mr Lewis:

– That would be a good speculation.

Dr EARLE PAGE:

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I am sure that the Treasurer (Mr. Theodore) has not intentionally misled the committee in regard to the position- in

South Africa. I intend to make a pertinent quotation from Kisch and Elkin, which will prove to honorable members chat I am right in the contention that I have put forward, and that his statement does not square with the facts. At page 375, this work says that the South African Reserve Bank is entitled to do certain things, including the following: -

To buy, sell, or re-discount bills and pro- missory notes not exceeding ninety days’ maturity, and drawn for purpose of trading in Union Government securities, subject to their bearing endorsement of a bank;

To buy, sell, or re-discount Union Government or local authorities’ bills of not more than six months’ currency.

– I suggest that the buying and selling of government securities on the market is a function of neither a central reserve bank nor of the private trading banks.

Mr.BAYLEY. - If the Treasurer will give me his assurance that it is not proposed that the central reserve bank shall engage in the buying or selling of government securities solely for profit, I will accept the clause.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I do not see anything objectionable in this clause, and I am prepared to accept the Treasurer’s explanation of it. I cannot see any reason for limiting the period of these securities, so long as they are defined and restricted, as in the present act. It is laid down that the directorate shall discount only certain stocks. Surely it is wise to leave these matters to the discretion of the directorate. It is reasonable to assume that the directors will do their bestto safeguard the interests of the institution with which they are connected. I am prepared to vote for the clause as it stands.

Question - That the words proposed to be inserted be so inserted . (Dr. Earle Page’s amendment) - put. The committee divided. (The Temporary Chairman - Mr. Mackay.)

AYES: 12

NOES: 37

Majority . . . . 25

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Amendment negatived.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I move -

That the words “ or of any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State,” paragraph c, be omitted.

Mr BAYLEY:
Oxley

.- It has often been stated that New Zealand can go on the open market and secure loans on much more advantageous terms than we in Australia can get, and seeing that the dominion is our nearest neighbour, I think it would be a matter of courtesy as well as good business to have the securities of the Dominion of New Zealand added to the list specified in paragraph c of clause 8.

Mr Theodore:

– New Zealand is not included because its bonds are not readily negotiable on the Australian market. The only overseas securities we include are those of Great. Britain and Northern Ireland.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- All charters of central banks contain rigorous restrictions against the purchase of municipal securities. I am afraid the Treasurer (Mr. Theodore) is not quite correct in saying that the securities or debentures of local authorities in capital cities are always readily saleable. We rarely see them quoted in the financial columns of the press and, to my mind, they are not a class of negotiable stock that may be expected to sell readily.

Mr Theodore:

– I do not say that they are all freely dealt with on the stock exchanges; but if they are not, the reserve bank will not be dealing with them.

Mr GREGORY:

– In South Africa power is not given to the reserve bank to make loans and advances against government and municipal authorities exceeding six months’ currency, whereas in this bill the two years’ limitation in clause 9, paragraph d applies only to municipalities outside capital cities. There are also restrictions in regard to the amount that can be advanced by the Reichsbank in Germany on bonds of any German State or municipality. I think our bill is going too far, and I hope that when clause 9 is reached the Treasurer will favorably consider some modification of paragraph d.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I cannot allow the clause to pass as it stands without putting on record my strongest protest against the power given to the central bank to deal in securities issued by various local bodies in Australia. No one can suggest that they are first-class securities or readily marketable. It is all very well for the Treasurer (Mr. Theodore) to say that everything must be left to the discretion of the board of the bank, but here is whore we should make it clear that it is our intention that the bank must not deal in anything but first-class securities and securities of short date. I regard paragraph c of the clause as containing a fatal flaw, which is likely to cause a considerable reaction, and I am firmly of the belief that it is a power that ultimately will have to be taken away from the bank.

Amendment negatived.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- Charters of banks usually contain the words “ approved securities,” and I suggest that paragraph e, which gives power to the bank to make advances direct to other corporations carrying on the business of banking, should be amended by inserting the words “ against approved securities “ after the word “ advances.”

Mr THEODORE:
Treasurer · Dalley · ALP

– There is no need to insert the words suggested by the honorable member. The reserve bank is given priority over all other claimants against any other bank, and is, therefore, in a particularly safe position to make advances to other corporations carrying on the business of banking. Of course, the board has to use its discretion as to the extent to which it will make such advances, but it is one of the first responsibilities of a central bank that it shall not overlend to any institution.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- Paragraph g gives power to the bank to accept money on deposit on current account, and collect money for public corporations and others. It seems to me that the words “ and others “ are the widest and most nebulous definition of a class of people I have ever seen. If they mean anything, they should be defined. If they mean nothing they should be deleted. At any rate, the position should be defined in some way so that the bank board, which will be guided by the letter of the law, and not by any discussion in this chamber, will know exactly what is desired by Parliament. Can the Treasurer meet the position in any other way than by the use of the words, “ and others “ ?

Mr THEODORE:
Treasurer · Dalley · ALP

– I am afraid that I cannot suggest a term that would be more explicit than that now in the clause. The persons who would avail themselves of the power given by the paragraph to which the honorable member has drawn atttention are corporations and individuals, who really constitute the money market. As a matter of fact, the class is restricted because of the inability of the bank to pay interest on money accepted on deposit on current account. It is not permitted to do so. I explained on the second reading that the Bank of England accepts the deposits of a certain number of persons - I was going to say class of persons; but they can hardly be defined as a class except that they have a certain status and a certain range of business in the money market in England. Under the rules of the Bank of England these persons keep a minimum deposit in the Bank of England. The amount on deposit may be required to be £50,000, but they receive no interest on that amount. On account of the position they occupy in the money market they become underwriters of loans, or perhaps operators on the stock exchange. They fulfil certain functions, and are recognized as fulfilling them. The Bank of England accepts them as depositors, but pays no interest on the amount of the deposit. I do not think any such class of business will develop in Australia, but if a bill market is developed here it is possible that operations of that character will follow, and it may therefore be wise to give the central bank the right to receive deposits without interest from certain operators on the money market.

Mr Lewis:

– Is the power given in paragraph b to establish accounts with other central reserve banks wide enough to cover the proposed international bank?

Mr THEODORE:

– I think the provision is wide enough to enable our central reserve bank to establish accounts with the Bank of International Settlements that is now being organized to deal with the reparation payments, in which Australia is directly interested. This authority will enable that to he done.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

– Under paragraph h, the reserve bank is given power “ to make loans or advances against the security of stock or debentures of the Government of the Commonwealth or of a State, or any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State,” &c, and I wish to secure some restriction of this power, because it seems to me that this provision is far too liberal in its terms. There would be nothing to prevent the reserve bank from holding practically the great bulk of its resources in securities of this nature.- These might not be merely those approved securities that the Treasurer has spoken of as being readily saleable ; they might be securities of all descriptions, some of which could not be easily converted into currency. In practically every country provision has been made to prevent the great bulk of central banking reserves being held in government stock. I have already referred to the position in South Africa. In 1927, a central reserve bank was established in Greece, and that institution may grant advances against government bonds for periods not exceeding six months. No advance must exceed 80 per cent, of the market value of bonds, or 70 per cent, of the market value of treasury-bills, and the aggregate amount of the advances may not exceed one-tenth of the sum budgeted for in the current financial year. The provision to which I am referring is undoubtedly too wide for safety, and must be regarded as containing an element of danger by those who desire to see the resources of the bank kept in a liquid form. I move -

That in paragraph h, after the word “ State “, first occurring, the words “ having a currency of more than five years and up to not more than eighty per centum .of the market value thereof “ be inserted.

Mr Theodore:

– That is most unjustifiable criticism.

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– In support of my argument, I refer to Kisch and Elkin, at page 137 -

It is desirable that the securities should be of free marketability, and of as short currency as local conditions allow, and that, if their maturity extends beyond a few months, the advance should bc limited to an amount leaving an adequate margin in relation to the market value of the security, as in Belgium, where even government securities are only reckoned at four-fifths value. Again, a limit should be placed on the amount of government securities taken as collateral. These are in practice, likely to predominate among the securities offered as a basis for loans, and it is important that they should not be permitted to Obtain a position in the bank’s business that might lead to the subordination of credit policy to State exigencies. In the case of Chile, the Central. Bank is ordinarily only allowed to advance against government, municipal, railway and similar securities up to an amount not exceeding 20 per cent, of the bank’s paid-up capital and surplus, though the proportion may, in special circumstances, be raised for a period of not more than six months to 30 per cent. In Germany, advances against government or municipal bonds maturing within one year may only bo made to banks of known solvency, and up to three-quarters of the market value of the securities. The holdings of three months’ treasury-bills by the Reichsbank must not exceed RM.400 million. Power may be granted in special circumstances by the General Council of the Reichsbank for the acceptance of bonds of the Reich of distant maturity if, apart from the security, two obligees are liable for the loans (one to be a bank doing business in Germany ) . The total loans against these distant maturities may not exceed the amount of the bank’s capital and reserves.

Mr Theodore:

– There is no restriction, so far as the four hundred million Reichsmarks are concerned. These are treasury-bonds-.

Dr EARLE PAGE:

-.- I am suggesting a currency of five years, and Germany insists on’ a three-months’ limit for treasury-bonds and a quantum limit. Other countries find it necessary to impose a definite limit as to the amount and the terms.

Mr Theodore:

– Take the practice of the Bank of England.

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– The Treasurer is willing to be guided by the policy of the Bank of England on one particular point only; but he disregards it in practically every other respect. If the Treasurer wishes to comply strictly with the practice of the Bank of England he will discard this bill, and allow the Commonwealth Bank to continue as ‘ at the present time. The question which we now have to answer is whether we are to allow the central reserve bank to be the puppet of the Government.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- I hope that some alteration will be made to this paragraph, because, at present, we do not know whether the central reserve bank is being established to assist the Government in times of stress, or to build up the industries of Australia. If this paragraph is passed as it stands, it may happen that, because of political pressure, the reserve bank may, to a large extent, be used for making advances to the Government or for purchasing Government securities. Surely we are justified in following the practice adopted in other countries. The Bank of England may nol make advances to the Government without the express authority of Parliament. The South African legislation provides that loans or advances may be made by the Reserve Bank against Government securities for periods not exceeding sis months. Under paragraph i this reserve bank will be able to make advances to the Government of the Commonwealth or of a State, or to any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State. There is no restriction in any shape or form upon advances to the Government. The Reichbank of Germany, after its recent experience, has received specific instructions in respect of making advances to the Government. I venture to say that, if this clause becomes law, future governments will, in times of stress, exert political influence upon the directors of the bank. They will be appointed by the Government for a limited term and, because of that, will always be liable, in some degree, to government pressure. There is, in the bill, no limitation on the advances that may be made to the Government. An advance may be made of £1,000,000 or £5,000,000 ; in fact any advance may be obtained by a future government to enable it to carry on a spendthrift policy. It would be wise on out part to place in this bill restrictions upon the advances or loans that may be obtained from the reserve bank by this ot any future government.

Mr McTiernan:

– Does the honorable member think that some private banks have been over-generous to governments in order to hold their business?

Mr GREGORY:

– The Reichbank will not accept bonds unless they bear the endorsement of a bank, and, in some instances, it requires three well-known signatures before any advance, is made. Under this legislation there is no restriction whatever upon advances. We should, therefore, ensure, in this legislation,, thai the bank will be used solely as a reserve bank and not as a feeder to an extravagant government.

Question - That the words proposed to be inserted by so inserted (Dr. Earle Page’s amendment) - put. The committee divided. (The Temporary Chairman - Hon. D. Watkins.)

AYES: 16

NOES: 33

Majority . . . . 17

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Amendment negatived.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I move -

That, in paragraph h after the word “ State “ the words “ or any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State “ be omitted.

There is no need for me to labour this point, because it , has already been discussed at great length in connexion with previous clauses. The reasons advanced by the Treasurer for the retention of other words inother parts of the bill, would, apparently, suggest that the words “or any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State “ should be omitted. I desire only to point out that the security of any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State would not be recognized by any financial institution as first class security or as a security able to be freely marketed in times of crisis.

Amendment negatived.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I move -

That after the word “ State “, first occurring, paragraphi, the following words be inserted : “ to an amount not exceeding at any time one-fifth of the amount received by the Government by taxation in the preceding financial year.”

The object of this amendment is to limit the amount of accommodation that can he given by the reserve bank to the Government,

Mr McTiernan:

– What is meant by “ taxation.”

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– The total taxation. In the case of the Commonwealth it would be the amount received through the customs and from direct taxation.

Mr McTiernan:

– Does the right honorable member mean revenue or taxation?

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– Taxation, because revenues are derived from certain government enterprises which I do not wish to be included. Unless some such restriction as this is made,: it will be possible for the central bank to utilize practically the whole of its resources for the purpose of assisting the Government of the day. Without doubt, the best way to make sure that the bank will be kept free from political interference is to limit the temptation of a government to go to it for assistance. If the amount of assistance which the bank may give to a government is limited by statute, the government will not want to interfere with the policy of the institution. On this point I quote the following passage from Kisch and Elkin’s Central Banks : -

The temptation of the State to intervene in the affairs of the Central Bank is diminished if the accommodation which the bank may give to the State is limited. Thus, while the Austrian and Hungarian statutes permit the National Bank to discount the bills drawn by the State commercial undertakings, managed as independent enterprizes, it is provided that the Government may not have recourse to the bank unless they pay the equivalent in gold or in foreign drafts. In Germany, the Reichsbank is allowed to make loans to the Government for short periods, and to a limited amount, but at the end of the businessyear the Reich must not be indebted to the bank. In Holland the bank is bound on the request of the Ministry of Finance to advance money free of interest to the State in their current account against treasury bills, but the total of such loans is not to exceed 15,000,000 gulden. In the statutes of the Bank of Esthonia, it is laid down that the bank may “make temporary advances to the Government for expenditure authorized in the annual State budget, provided that the whole of the advances outstanding at any time does not exceed one sixth of the estimated revenue of the year, and that all advances are repaid not later than at the end of the quarter following the close of the fiscal year in respect of which the advances are made “. Restrictions on these lines exist also in Bulgaria, where the capital of the bank has been provided by the State.

There is a similar provision in the case of Czecho Slovakia, which limits the amount of accommodation that the .Central Bank may give the Government. Roughly, the taxation- of the Commonwealth yields between £50,000,000 and £60,000,000 per annum. One-fifth of that would be between £10,000,000 and £12,000,000, and that seems to me to be a reasonable limit to the accommodation which the bank should be permitted to give the Government under this clause.

Mr WEST:
East Sydney

– I must congratulate the right ‘ honorable member for Cowper (Dr. Earle Page) upon his ingenuity. He has travelled all over the world to find reasons for reducing the value of- this bank to the community ; but he has not made an instructive contribution to the debate. It is beside the mark to- compare Australia with the countries to which he referred,’ because the conditions here are different from the conditions there. It is ridiculous to suggest that any government will exhaust the resources of the bank for its own purposes. If the right honorable member wishes us to take him seriously, he should not make such amusing remarks. This bill was drafted by Australians to meet the financial circumstances of Australia. The ex-Treasurer is like a man who employs elephants to chase butterflies. I understand that he is an excellent surgeon, but he has shown conclusively that he is .not a financier. I hope that the Treasurer will stand by the provisions of the bill. If the board of directors is composed of men who are intellectually alert and thoroughly informed of the Australian position, no trouble need be expected. Although the right honorable member for Cowper has told us that he desires to improve the bill, he is seeking to include in it provisions which will make it useless. I sincerely hope that he will not continue to exhibit his financial incompetence.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- If no restrictions are provided in this clause it may seriously interfere with the success of the bank. The Bank of England is subject to very little control, but I quote the following from Kisch and Elkin’s Central Banks regarding the relations of the Bank of England with the’ State : -

Geo. III., cap. 70. The bank may hot make advances to Government without the express authority of Parliament. But nothing in the act was to prevent the bank from purchasing exchequer bills, or treasury bills, or other government securities which, by law, it was authorized to purchase.

An annual return has to be laid before Parliament of the amount of exchequer’ bills, treasury bills, &c, purchased by the bank, or upon which any Bums have been advanced for the Public Service.

The proposal of the right honorable member for Cowper (Dr. Earle Page) is reasonable. Kisch and Elkin say that the charter of the Bank of Greece limits the amount of temporary advances to the Government to 400,000,000 drachmas, and requires that all advances shall he repaid within three months of the close of the financial year in which they are made. A little later, in the same chapter, I find the following observations on this point: -

But in other instances, especially in the countries which have only recently reestablished their financial and currency systems, it is of cardinal importance that it should be made as difficult as possible for the governments to resort to the expedient of borrowing from the bank, a practice which, if continued) can only lead to a repetition of past disasters. At least, such clauses indicate a standard of wise finance, the formal recognition of which is likely to be beneficial, and the provisions carry the safeguard that, if there is a question of increasing the amount of State credits, the matter must be brought before the legislature and cannot legally be effected by mere pressure on the bank. Moreover, the existence of restrictions on government borrowing on the bank strengthen the hand of that body in exerting influence on the government to pursue a policy of” financial prudence. The offer of wise counsels in such matters is one of the important services that a strong central bank can render to the nation ; but such services can only be looked for when the bank’s independence is fully safeguarded by law and practice.

That shows clearly the wisdom of not making it too. easy for a government to borrow from a central bank. The real object of such a bank is to assist industry, and the object of this bank is to assist Australian industry. If a limitation of this nature is not made, a spendthrift government may bring influence to bear on the bank to force it to make large advances for so-called national purposes. But we should not make it easy for that to be done. It would be wise, in my opinion, to insert a clause in the bill to provide that, before the bank should make any advances to governments beyond a certain specified amount, an enabling bill must be passed through Parliament. I regret that no provision is being made in the returns that must be furnished to distinguish advances made to governments from those made to private corporations. Such a distinction should be made. I trust that the Treasurer will accept the amendment, and hope that his desire is to make this bill something that he will be proud of, and something that will make impossible the adoption of wild financial practices in this country.

Mr NAIRN:
Perth

.- This is no minor amendment. I disagree with those who think that everything should be left to the discretion of the board. The board must, of course, have some discretion in regard to the general management of the bank; but, if all power is to be given to it, there is no need for the long list of restrictions already provided in the bill. Unless a provision of the nature now before us is agreed to, there will be no limit to the amount that the bank may advance to Commonwealth or State governments, or to the term of the advance. On this point I invite the attention of honorable members to the difference between paragraph h and paragraph i of the clause. Paragraph h provides that the bank shall have power -

To make loans or advances against the security of stock or debentures of the Government of the Commonwealth or of a State, or any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State, or good trade bills, such bills having a currency nf not more than six months to date of maturity.

Paragraph (.provides that it shall have power -

To make advances to the Government of the Commonwealth or of a State, or to any authority constituted under the law of . the Commonwealth or of any State.

– That is the danger.

Mr YATES:

– Apparently the honorable member did not see that danger when the Government of which he wasa member authorized an advance for £10,000,000 to finance the wool clip. Th, Government of the day had power to do that, and did it in the interests of one section of the community. When th, Nationalists want money from the financial machine they can make it respond to their wishes. If the financial magnates want certain power and credit they can put the screw on a Nationalist Government. Now Labour is in power in the Commonwealth, and I want it to be able to do the same.

Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 8 p.m.

Mr YATES:

– I have very little more to add to my remarks on this clause. It is the most vital in the bill, and upon its operation depends the success of the scheme. It provides that the bank may make advances to the Commonwealth and State Governments, and I want to know precisely where and how they get on and get off. The Treasurer should make clear what are its limitations and whether under it the Commonwealth Government will be able to obtain the accommodation necessary to ensure the maintenance of the best interests of the community.

Mr PROWSE:
Forrest

.- It seems to be manifest that the forces of the Government are seriously divided on this bill. It is my opinion that the amount of advance to governments should be based on the taxable capacity of the country. That principle is generally recognized in municipal government. Municipal councils are prevented from overdrawing and excessively pledging futurity, and a similar provision should be made in this bill to govern advances by the central reserve bank to the various governments. Otherwise, it can easily be imagined that governments might extract from the bank excessive advances that would prove a hindrance to posterity. I think that it was the honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Yates) who said that the Government acted without check with regard to the financing of our wheat and wool. I remind the honorable member that it is permissible to make almost unlimited advances against a perfect asset. A bank, when advancing money, is always cautious to see that its advances are adequately covered by assets. The central reserve bank should be equally cautious in its transactions, and the bill should qualify the amount that may be advanced. I support the amendment.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Honorable members must realize that there will be a board of directors to administer the affairs of the central reserve bank. Apparently, many seek to put leg-irons on those gentlemen. The right honorable member for Cowper (Dr. Earle Page) wants to limit the amount of money that the Commonwealth Government may borrow from the bank by incorporating a restrictive proviso in the bill. Suppose that the Commonwealth Government decided to bring about the unification of our railway systems. That would cost many millions of pounds, and would be an important reproductive work. Such a provision as the right honorable gentleman suggests would prevent the Government obtaining through this agency the means to carry out the work.

Mr Riordan:

– It would be hobbled !

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– It certainly would be hobbled. No government should be bound hand and foot in that manner. Again, suppose that a war took place, and that the Government wanted money for the defence of the country, but could not raise it because of this limitation imposed upon the central reserve bank. The position would be an absurd one. The directors of the bank are the servants of the country, whereas this Parliament is elected by the people, who entrust the Government with the duty of governing the country in the best interests of the community as a whole. I hope that the amendment will be rejected.

Mr GULLETT:
Henty

.- As the clause now stands, the central reserve bank is empowered to make advances to the Government of the Commonwealth or of a State. No limitation is imposed either as to the amount of the advance, or as to the time over which it may extend. The right honorable the Leader of the Country party (Dr. Earle Page) has moved an amendment to limit such an advance to an amount not exceeding at any time one-fifth of the amount received by the Government by taxation in the preceding financial year. That amendment is so eminently sane and sound that I am surprised that the Treasurer has not accepted it. The limitation it seeks to impose is no narrow one. The central reserve bank would still be free to advance something approaching £12,000,000 to the Commonwealth and, I think, approximately £5,000,000 to £6,000,000 to the States, in any one financial year. The amendment is really more an expression of principle than anything else; an intimation that the central reserve bank shall not have power to make an unlimited advance to any government at any particular time. I think that the committee will agree that the financial condition of the Commonwealth would be in a pretty desperate position if the amount requested from the bank exceeded £12,000,000.

The Treasurer must not complain if the whole bill becomes suspect as a result of his attitude towards so desirable an amendment. The debate has been extraordinarily fair and reasonable. I did not speak on the second-reading stage, and I should not have intervened now had the Treasurer not adopted such a highhanded attitude towards amendments emanating from this side of the chamber. What are the facts as presented by the bill itself and the honorable gentleman in charge of it?’ First,, the Treasurer has repeatedly protested that there is to be no political control of this bank ; that it is to be purely a reserve bank created in the interests, in the broadest sense, of financial stability. It is not to be a bank for profit, or to serve any political party which may be in power. Next, as the bill now stands, the Government, directly and definitely, is to make all appointments to the management of the bank without consultation with anybody.

Mr Theodore:

– Has, that anything to do with this clause?

Mr GULLETT:

– A great deal, as I shall shortly show. The bill gives to this proposed central reserve bank infinitely greater powers than those possessed by any other reserve bank in the world, with the single exception of the Bank of

England. The Treasurer has quoted that bank. I remind himof the all-important fact that that institution is a privatelyowned bank. It is true that, in some respects, it is a semi-official bank, but actually it is owned by private shareholders and is, in the main; administered free from political control, indeed, from any consultation with political control except in. times of grave national emergency. So the Bank of England may be cut out of the picture. The Opposition comes along with a very reasonable amendment, such as that now before the committee, and the Treasurer gives a point-blank refusal to place any limitation uponthe amount of. money that the reserve bank may advance to any government of the moment. Naturally, the whole thing becomes highly suspect. Reference has been made to the very extraordinary and timely, or perhaps untimely from the Treasurer’s point of view, series of resolutions on the subject of unemployment incorporated in the report of. the Federal Labour conference recently held at Canberra.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Hon D Watkins:

– I ask the honorable member toconnect his remarks with the amendment.

Mr GULLETT:

– I intend to show why the committee should insist upon some limitationbeing imposed on the amount that can be advanced by the board of the proposed bank to any government. The Labour conference that sat in Canberra a couple of weeks ago brought in a report on the subject , of unemployment, the chief point made by which was that it is difficult to provide relief for the unemployed, to-daybecause of the extraordinarily rigid systemof banking that prevails in Australia. The Government was instructed to so modify the banking system that £20,000,000might be made available for the immediate relief of unemployment.

– The object of this measure is to improve our financial and economic position and to remove many of the disabilities with which we are confronted. The bleak days of winter are upon us, and as unemployment is so prevalent it is the duty of all sections of the community to assist the Government to relieve the position.

Mr FRANCIS:
Moreton

.- I support the amendment moved by the right honorable member for Cowper (Dr.

Earle Page). The clause provides that -

The reserve bank shall, in addition to any other powers conferred or limitations imposed by this act have power . . .

to make advances to the Governments of the Commonwealth or of a State or to any authority constituted under the law of the Commonwealth or of any State.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The honorable member receives his instructions from the banks.

Mr FRANCIS:

– I take instructions from no one. I am in the happy position of having signed nothing, and of having received no instructions whatsoever from any one. I bear allegiance to the general policy of the party to which I belong, and I am supporting the amendment of the right honorable member for Cowper because I believe it would improve this bill and be in the best interests of the country. Examples have been quoted of the serious position of the Bank of France a few years ago because the statutory limit in regard to the making of advances to the Government was not observed. This may be verified by reference to the authoritative work on central banking by Kisch and Elkin, extracts from which are published at page 2397 of Hansard. Millions of francs in excess of the legal limit were obtained by the Government of the day from the bank, with the result that there were serious financial crashes in 1925 and 1926. These facts make it all the more imperative that the amendment of the right honorable member for Cowper should b.e accepted, and that the advances made to the Government in any one year should not exceed one-fifth of the annual amount received by way of taxation.

This would provide the Government with £12,000,000 or £15,000,000 a year which, in addition to the revenues received from taxation and other sources, should be sufficient to meet the requirements of any government having a proper regard for economy. I urge the Treasurer to accept the amendment in the interests of the financial stability of the country, and to promote confidence in the central reserve bank.

Mr. WHITE (Balaclava) [8.50J. - I support the amendment of the right honorable member for Cowper (Dr. Earle Page). As the sub-clause now reads it would authorize the bank to make advances to the Commonwealth Government, or to a State Government, or to any authority constituted by a law of the Commonwealth Government or of any State, without limit as to amount or period. The right honorable member’s amendment would limit the amount to one-fifth of the taxation received for any one year. If no limit is imposed, a spendthrift government might squander the amount subscribed for the formation of a central reserve bank. I do not suggest that this Government would do so, but any government might.

Mr Theodore:

– Does the honorable member suggest that the Government would squander the reserves of the bank unless it received advances?

Mr WHITE:

– The bank might overlend to the Government. The bill should definitely provide a limit beyond which the bank might not go. I also think that the period of the loan should be limited by legislation, and I would like to see a time limit added to the amendment. The Controller of the Bank of England has stated that the English system of short-dated bills is preferable to our overdraft system. I suggest, therefore, that the period of a loan should be for not more than four months.

– The honorable member will also admit that the central reserve bank should not be used for that purpose. Among other things, the honorable member for Adelaide said that if the bank were to be of any use to the Government it must be able to do these things. Surely this bank is not being established simply to be of use to the Government. We, on this side, understood that it was to be of some good to Australian industry generally.

Mr Lewis:

– Of some use to Australia as a whole.

Mr PATERSON:

– If it is to be of use to Australia as a whole, and not merely to the Government, its funds must not be too much locked up -in loans or advances to Governments. The honorable member for Adelaide compared the advances which might be made under this clause, if it is not amended, with the advances made some years ago by the Commonwealth Bank when a difficulty arose in connexion with financing the sale of our wool clip and wheat harvest. There is no analogy between the two. An advance even by way of an additional temporary note issue against the sale of wheat or wool is an absolutely sound proposition, because wheat and wool are money just as much as gold is money, and notes issued in addition to the ordinary circulation for that purpose may always be withdrawn as soon as the temporary need is past. In fact these additional notes were issued only on the definite understanding that they would be withdrawn in a very short period, and very little additional circulation of notes was actually necessary, because, if my memory serves me right, as soon as the private banks realized what was about to be done by the Commonwealth Bank, credit which had previously been frozen, easily became liquid. It is, therefore, useless to compare that transaction with that which was suggested by the honorable member for Adelaide and the honorable member for East Sydney. If the Treasurer’s mind is adamant on this amendment then I submit that whatever apprehension there is in the public mind with regard to the use this or any other Government might make of the bank must be added to by the views expressed by the honorable member for Adelaide and the honorable member for East Sydney. And there surely never was a time when there was greater need to improve the nation’s credit than the -present. The limitation proposed in the amendment would do something to enhance our credit and remove apprehensions which are generally felt in connexion with this bill. The Treasurer said that since the previous Government had not seen fit to insert this limitation in the Commonwealth Bank legislation, he could not see the necessity for putting it into this particular legislation. He made that observation in a way that suggested he thought it should stifle all criticism on the matter, but I submit that such a limitation could not rightly be imposed upon the powers of the Commonwealth Bank as a trading bank, because it would prevent it from acting as a trading bank. Limitations, which would not be proper for the Commonwealth Bank, may quite fittingly be imposed on an institution established for the purpose of doing central reserve bank business.

Mr Theodore:

– That is the whole reason for bringing in the present bill.

Mr PATERSON:

– Then the Treasurer must admit that the limitation suggested is reasonable in this legislation, although it would be unreasonable in legislation dealing with the Commonwealth Bank which acts as a trading bank in addition to acting, to some extent, as a central reserve bank.

The honorable member for East Sydney ridiculed illustrations from this side of the chamber of what had been done in other countries in respect of central reserve bank legislation.

The lights having failed for eleven minutes,

Progress reported.

The lighting of the chamber having been restored,

Ordered -

That the bill be further considered in committee forthwith.

Mr PATERSON:
Gippsland

Mr MACKAY:

– If the provisions of the bill are carried out and the controlling authority of the reserve bank is appointed by the Government for a short term, necessarily the bank directors will be influenced by the Government of the day. The amendment is intended to limit the amount of the advance to one-fifth of the amount received by the Government in taxation during the preceding financial year. It is fair and reasonable. If the Treasurer thinks that one-fifth is not sufficient, the right honorable member for Cowper might agree to substitute onefourth. Personally, I cannot imagine that the Commonwealth Government would ever need a temporary advance of more than £15,000,000. There should also be a limit to the amounts that may be loaned to the State Governments and local governing authorities in such circumstances. Seeing that the Treasurer has said that there is to be no political interference with the management of this bank, I cannot see why he will not accept the amendment.

Mr JAMES:
Hunter

– I hope that a limit will not be put upon the amount of money that the bank may lend to the Commonwealth Government, the State Governments, or local governing authorities. The object of the amendment is, in my opinion, to restrict the usefulness of the bank. If a government requires credit from an institution of this nature it should be able to get it. If local governing authorities could obtain money from some such source at present, they could do a great deal to relieve the prevailing unemployment. If this bank is not intended to make this possible I have not very much interest in it. Certain honorable members opposite have adversely criticized a finance resolution of the Labour party conference held in Canberra recently; but I, like the honorable member for East Sydney, am proud to associate myself with such a proposal, and I hope that the Government will do its utmost to give effect to it. I was amazed to hear the honorable member for Swan (Mr. Gregory) say that the board of directors of the institution should be appointed by the depositors of the money which the bank will control. That would mean that the directors would be the directors of the private banking institutions, which would be ridiculous. T am diametrically opposed to the policy of allowing private institutions to exploit the credit of the nation. Seeing that the Commonwealth Government will provide this bank with its initial capital of £2,000,000 it should have something to say about the directors. The honorable member for Henty (Mr. Gullett) has told us that he would like to see a bank established in Australia like the Bank of England; but does he know the personnel of the board of directors of that bank? On the 19th June, 1929, Mr. Arthur Kitson, speaking at Caxton Hall, Westminster, said -

It is only within the last 50 years that the sinister influence of the Bank of England has become so apparent and so dangerous to the welfare of Britain. The Bank of England is now an international trading company, controlled by 25 directors, eight of whom represent American interests and four represent German interests, with Montagu Norman, the Governor-General. Britain’s real ruler is neither Kng George V. nor Parliament; the ruler is the man or men who control the bank, who cause trade to boom or stagnate as they wish.

– That is absolutely false.

Mr YATES:

– I do not expect the right honorable gentleman to admit it, but that is what happened, and the honorable member for Gippsland admitted it in this chamber to-night. I suppose a similar thing will take place when the Wheat Marketing Bill comes into operation. Wheat certificates will then play the same part as cheques now- do, or as bonds did during the war. At that time business people pasted in their windows notices to the effect that bonds would be accepted, and Governments urged the people to take up bonds. But those people did not get value for their bonds. Some remarkable financial transactions occurred during the war period.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Mackay:

– I ask the honorable member to connect his remarks with the clause, which does not mention the honorable member for Gippsland.

Mr YATES:

– I submit that the whole of my remarks are germane to the subjectmatter of the clause, and to the amendment of the right honorable member for Cowper. If this Government puts into effect the recommendations of the recent Labour Conference, and makes fluid an amount of £20,000,000 to assist unemployment, it will be following the example of the Bruce-Page Government and manipulating the fluidity of the credit of Australia not to promote wild-cat schemes to relieve unemployment as suggested by the honorable memberfor Darling Downs but to prosecute public works. Is the unification of the railway gauges of Australia a wildcat scheme? No more progressive work can be imagined; yet Australiais not prepared to undertake it. Then, in Adelaide, there are government officeswhich, in their uncompleted state, are an eyesore in one of the finest cities in the southern hemisphere. If the erection of that building is a wild-cat scheme, why was it commenced? The admission of the honorable member for Gippsland that when, during the régime of the Bruce-Page Government, the private banking institutions were empowered to draw against notes to the value of £50,000,000 to finance the wool and wheat crops, assets that were frozen became liquid, should disperse any fear that might have been caused by the resolution of the conference of the Australian Labour party that £20,000,000 be made available to absorb the unemployed in reproductive works. No government is generous enough to pay a workingman a wage unless valueis given for it. It is all tarradiddle to talk about wild-cat schemes to relieve unemployment. It is the wealthy speculator who makes big profits out of wild-cat schemes.

I have never known a working-man to be given employment except in useful and necessary work, It is time that this Parliament did something to relieve the unemployed. I make no accusation against the Government. Under this measure it is endeavouring to. provide a solution of the problem. I am hopeful that it will accomplish all that it has in mind, but I doubt whether it will be able to do so. The unemployed cannot be put off much longer. In South Australia some men have been out of work for three years, and their ranks are being added to daily. Eight months have elapsedsince there was a change of government. Something must be done, or there will be a reaction against this Government, in which I would be involved, and rightly so. If honorable members opposite believe that a man is a greater asset when employed than when unemployed, let them cease stonewalling this measure and put it to the test to see whether it will effect the purpose for which it was designed. I am prepared to give it a try-out; but I shall still advocate an expansion of the credit of Australia for the purpose of carrying out useful public works that are necessary to absorb the unemployed, because I do not believe that this proposal will wholly meet the situation with which we are faced.

Progress reported.

page 2659

ADJOURNMENT

Note Printing Office

Motion (by Mr. Scullin) proposed -

That the House do now adjourn.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 11 June 1930, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1930/19300611_reps_12_124/>.

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House of Representatives11 June 1930

QUESTION

TIMBER INDUSTRY

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr FORDE:Assistant Minister assisting the Minister for Customs · CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND · ALP

QUESTION

QUEENSLAND CANE-FIELDS

Mr E RILEY:SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr SCULLIN:Minister for External Affairs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr MACKAY:LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

Mr SCULLIN:

TARIFF SCHEDULE

Dr EARLE PAGE:COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES

WORLD KNEW OUR SECRET!

Mr FORDE:ALP

QUESTION

CANBERRA COTTAGES

Mr M CAMERON:BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

Mr SCULLIN:ALP

Mr M CAMERON:BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

Mr SCULLIN:

QUESTION

NEW TARIFF

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

Mr FORDE:ALP

QUESTION

AGRICULTURAL MACHINERY

Mr PROWSE:FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr SCULLIN:ALP

BRANDING OF FOOTWEAR

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

N.S.W. NEEDS FOOTWEAR BRANDED

Mr BRENNAN:Attorney-General · BATMAN, VICTORIA · ALP

QUESTION

DEFENCE WORKS

Mr ELDRIDGE:MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr A GREEN:KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

QUESTION

SUGAR CASTE

Dr MALONEY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr SCULLIN:ALP

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY

Mr ELDRIDGE:

Mr A GREEN:KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

QUESTION

BRITISH ECONOMIC MISSION

Dr MALONEY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr SCULLIN:ALP

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH BANK RESIDENCE, LISMORE

Mr ELDRIDGE:MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; LANG LAB from 1931

Mr LYONS:Minister for Works and Railways · through Mr. Beasley · ALP

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY

Mr MORGAN:DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Mr A GREEN:KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

QUESTION

SIMPSON & SON LIMITED METAL FACTORY

Mr YATES:through Mr. Martens

Mr FORDE:ALP

QUESTION

ONIONS

Mr FRANCIS:MORETON, QUEENSLAND

Mr FORDE:ALP

QUESTION

NOTE PRINTING OFFICE

Mr YATES: through Mr. Martens

Mr LYONS:through Mr. Beasley · ALP

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH BANK

Mr LAZZARINI:through Mr. Watkins

Mr THEODORE:

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE

Mr GULLETT:HENTY, VICTORIA

Mr A GREEN:KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

QUESTION

AUTOMATIC EXCHANGES

Mr MACKAY:

House of Representatives
11 June 1930

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr FORDE:
Assistant Minister assisting the Minister for Customs · CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND · ALP

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr SCULLIN:
Minister for External Affairs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr MACKAY:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

Dr EARLE PAGE:
COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr FORDE:
ALP

Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

Mr FORDE:
ALP

Mr PROWSE:
FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

Mr BRENNAN:
Attorney-General · BATMAN, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr ELDRIDGE:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

Mr ELDRIDGE:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; LANG LAB from 1931

Mr LYONS:
Minister for Works and Railways · through Mr. Beasley · ALP

Mr MORGAN:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr YATES:
through Mr. Martens

Mr FORDE:
ALP

Mr FRANCIS:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

Mr FORDE:
ALP

Mr YATES:
through Mr. Martens

Mr LYONS:
through Mr. Beasley · ALP

Mr LAZZARINI:
through Mr. Watkins

Mr GULLETT:
HENTY, VICTORIA

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr LYONS:
through Mr. Beasley · ALP

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

Mr THEODORE:
Treasurer · Dalley · ALP

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

Mr THEODORE:
Treasurer · Dalley · ALP

Mr ELDRIDGE:
Martin

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Hon D Watkins:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr NAIRN:
Perth

Mr WEST:
East Sydney

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

Dr EARLE PAGE:
COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · FSU; CP from 1920

Mr THEODORE:
Treasurer · Dalley · ALP

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr YATES:
Adelaide

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper