House of Representatives
17 September 1924

9th Parliament · 2nd Session



Mr. Speaker (Rt. Hon. W. A. Watt) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 4400

QUESTION

RECIPROCAL TRADE WITH CANADA

Mr FOSTER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I ask the Prime Minister whether before Parliament goes into recess he will be in a position to make a statement concerning the negotiations to secure trade reciprocity with Canada?

Mr BRUCE:
Minister for External Affairs · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT

– I shall make a statement on the subject before Parliament is prorogued. I communicated with the Government of Canada during last week, and I am expecting a reply at any moment As soon as I receive the reply, I anticipate being in a position to inform the House. how thewhole matter stands.

page 4400

QUESTION

WRECK OF DOUGLAS MAW SON

Rescue of White Women.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

-I ask the Prime Minister whether he noticed in last night’s Herald a statement by a Constable Green, of the Northern Territory, to the effect that hehad investigated the rumour that two white women were in the hands ofthe blacks, and had reported to the officials of the Northern Territory. Has the Prime Minister any knowledge ofsuch a report, and is he in a position to make any further statement with respect to what is being done to rescue the women who aresaid to be in the hands of the blacks 1

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

-I did not see in the press the statement to which the honorable member refers, but some few days ago I heard some reference to a Constable Green having been in possession of certain information. Inquiries were then made, and itwas found that that information was not brought under the notice of the Home and Territories Department or of the Administrator of the Northern Territory. It has come to light only within the last few days, when the reports have appeared in the press. There is no further statement to make on the subject of the rescue proceedings, but the Government is endeavouring to send a wireless operator to Elcho Island so that communication can be established with those engaged in the work of rescue. I should like to remind honorable members that whilst wireless communication is of very great interest to the people of Australia, it can render no assistance in the work of rescuing the unfortunate women who are alleged to bc in the hands of the blacks.

page 4401

QUESTION

CARE OF MENT ALLY- AFFLICTED SOLDIERS

Mr MANN:
PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I wish to ask the Treasurer whether the agreement between the Commonwealth Government and the Western. Australian Government with regard te the care of mentally-afflicted soldiers in Western Australia has yet been completed; and, if so, when will the construction of the proposed new home be commenced ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I shall bring the honorable member’s question under the notice of the Treasurer, and obtain an answer for him.

page 4401

QUESTION

INDUSTRIAL POSITION AT PORT KEMBLA

Mr LAZZARINI:
WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES

-I ask the Minister for Trade and Customs whether it is a fact that an officer of his department visited Port Kembla to make inquiries into the industrial position there, and, if so, whether he will give the House information, as to whether this officer ascertained the correct position with regard to the wages being paid by metal manufacturers ?

Mr PRATTEN:
Minister for Trade and Customs · MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I have no information on the matter, but I shall make inquiries in order to obtain an answer for the honorable member.

page 4401

PRESENTATION TO MR. RAMSAY MACDONALD

Mr COOK:
INDI, VICTORIA

– Has the attention of the Prime Minister been drawn to a report in the press of last Monday’s date to the effect that Mr. Ramsay MacDonald, Prime Minister of Great Britain, was in March last presented by the McVitty and Price Biscuit Company, of Melbourne, with £30,000 worth of shares and a motor car, and that in June last the managing director of the company, Sir Alexander Grant, was given a title, on the recommendation of Mr. Ramsay MacDonald’s Government.

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– Both of the statements to which the honorable member has referred have been brought under my notice by the press of this country.

page 4401

QUESTION

PRIVATE MEMBERS’ BUSINESS

Mr BAMFORD:
HERBERT, QUEENSLAND

– As there is a general impression abroad that the present session is to end on Wednesday or Thursday of next week, I ask the Prime Minister whether, if that be so, he will give honorable members who have private business on the paper an opportunity of discussing it?.

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I know nothing of rumours as to when this House is going to rise, but the Government will be only too pleased to give an opportunity for the discussion of private members’ business should time permit.

page 4401

QUESTION

ADMINISTRATION OF TAXATION DEPARTMENT

FORMAL Motion of Adjournment.

Mr SPEAKER (Bt Hon W A Watt:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA

– I have received an intimation from the Acting Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Anstey) that he desires to move the adjournment of the House this afternoon for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, “ the questions submitted to the royal commission in connexion with the administration of the Land Tax Department.”

Five honorable members having risen in their places,

Question proposed.

Mr. ANSTEY (Bourke) [3.91. - I am very sorry to have to make any reference to a matter which has become the subject of an inquiry by a royal commission, and I would certainly never indulge in criticism of the character of that of the distinguished gentlemen who form the Opposition in the Victorian Parliament, and have attacked ‘ a commission appointed by the State

Government. But there are certain matters which I consider, it important to bring under notice. I direct attention to the fact that, on the 7th, 19th, 20th, and 21st August, the honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin); in conjunction with other members of the Opposition, condemned the Government for its maladministration of the Taxation Department, and, in particular, the Treasurer (Dr. Earle Page), as the Minister responsible for that department. The Prime Minister stated that he would refer the allegations made to a royal commission, A royal commission of one, in the person of Judge Edwards, of New South Wales, was appointed. The judge, sitting as a commissioner, is not permitted to base his investigations upon a perusal of the parliamentary proceedings, so that he may form his own opinion as to what the allegations were. On the contrary, the accused have drawn up their own indictment, and they bar the judge, from considering any statement by the honorable member for Yarra other than such statements, or portions of statements, as the Government has thought fit to include in it. The judge was handed extracts from speeches made by the honorable member for Yarra on the 7th and 19th August, but no references to statements made on the 20th and 21st August. The judge is permitted to inquire only “into the matters referred to in the extracts “ submitted to him. The extracts presented are torn from their contexts, and important statements made by the honorable member for Yarra are excluded from tlie investigation. The main accuser is the honorable member for Yarra, but he was not consulted about the terms of reference. Parliament, also, was not consulted. While such action might be justified if the Government was an uninterested party, it becomes an entirely different proposition when the conduct of the Government is itself in question. I respectfully submit that the terms of reference should not have been drawn up by a Government that is vitally interested in the decision, especially when it has been charged with interference in the administration of the law. I further submit that not mere extracts from the speeches of the honorable member for Yarra, but the whole of his speeches on the Taxation Department, should have been presented to the judge for him to decide which parts were extraneous and which were germane and vital to the issue. Members of the Opposition do not wish to enter into a controversy on a subject that will be judicially investigated, but we regard it as our bounden duty, at this early stage, to make our view clear.

Mr BRUCE:
Prime Minister and Minister for External Affairs · Flinders · NAT

– Like the Acting Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Anstey), I shall not enter into a controversy on a subject that will be investigated by a royal commission., but I point out to the honorable member that the reference to the commission has been drawn in the widest possible terms. . In addition to extracts from the speeches of the honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin), certain general questions have been submitted for the commissioner’s particular consideration. The honorable member for Yarra is entitled to be present at the inquiry, and the Government has placed at his disposal the services of counsel, who will be able to make to the commission any representations desired by the honorable member. Any member of this House, or any person in the community who reads the terms of reference, must come to the conclusion that they cover everything that it is desirable to investigate; and in view of the fact that the honorable member for Yarra will be present in person, and will be represented by counsel, every facility is provided for a full inquiry, which the Government very much welcomes.

Mr SCULLIN:
Yarra

.- While I shall follow the example of the Acting Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Anstey), and the Prime Minister (Mr. Bruce) in not discussing; a question that is to be investigated by a royal commission, I wish to support the statements made by the Acting Leader of the Opposition, and to deny emphatically those made by the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister said that the reference to the royal commission had been drawn in the widest possible terms. I invite honorable members to read -the terms of reference. I invite them to read the extracts that have been torn from the context of my speeches. I invite them, also, to have regard to the opinion of the judge who has been appointed commissioner. He distinctly informed me that he could not investigate anything outside the questions of the extracts taken from my speeches. I had with me statements taken from the Barnard report of those speeches, but he said that he had nothing to do with them, but only with the extracts supplied to him in the terms of reference. I draw the attention of honorable members to the fact that definite statements made by me have not been referred to the commissioner for investigation, and that direct and definite charges are excluded from the scope of the commission. For example, I made a definite statement that the law of this country was not observed, in that section 9 of the act, which requires the presentation of annual reports to Parliament, was not being obeyed. That was a definite and serious charge of a breach of the law, but it is not included in the questions to the judge. I also asked for the names of the big companies and individuals that were in arrears with the payment of their taxation. I was informed that the names could not be supplied to me, because it was not the practice to reveal them. I made the charge that the Government had revealed such information in some cases, and had refused to reveal it in others, and I alleged unfair discrimination by the Government. No question on that charge has been submitted to the judge. I made a general charge that the Government had interfered with the collection of land taxation, and that for seven years certain taxation had not been collected. I raised the question why a sum of over £1,600,000 due on Crown leaseholds had not been collected. That question has not been submitted to the judge for investigation and decision. On the other side, I draw attention to the questions that have been submitted to the judge. One of them calls upon me to prove something I did not say. It puts into my mouth words that cannot be found in any part of my speech, and designedly frames the question in such a way as to get one answer, and one only, and that favorable to the Government. Another question has been submitted to the judge with the deliberate intention of showing that the figures I quoted in the House were incorrect. As the Govern.ment well knows, my calculations were based on figures supplied by the. Treasurer. I cite these few facts to show that the reference to the commission is not wide where it ought to be wide, and is wide where it ought to be specific. The object appears to be to avoid getting decisions on the definite charges I made.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Treasurer · Cowper · CP

– When royal commissions have been appointed in the past, it has been the practice to submit the terms of reference to them to the House. Why was that not done in this instance? The action of the Government in not acquainting the House with the terms of reference is an act of discourtesy to honorable members. It may be true that the terms of reference have been published in all the newspapers, but I certainly did not notice them. I should like to know whether the Crown Law Department or the Cabinet drew up the terms of reference, for I do not wish to blame the Prime Minister (Mr. Bruce) or the Treasurer (Dr. Earle Page) if the Law Department is responsible. If the Law Department drew up the terms of reference, did it receive any specific instructions from the Government ?

Mr MANNING:
Macquarie

.- I am quite sure that honorable members of all parties are unanimous in their desire to have this matter thoroughly investigated. They wish every opportunity to be given to the honorable member for Yarra to prove the charges he made. There appears to be a difference of opinion regarding the reference to the royal commission. The Prime Minister and the Treasurer have said that the scope of the commission is sufficiently wide, but some honorable members opposite have said that its scope is not wide enough. That question can be left where it is until the commission meets. If the honorable member for Yarra finds that the scope of the commission is not wide enough to permit him to submit evidence to prove his charges, it will be competent for the commission to recommend the Government to extend its scope. The Government might at this stage give the House an assurance that if the commission is of opinion that evidence which the honorable member for Yarra desires to submit is outside its scope, the terms of reference will be extended.

Mr LAZZARINI:
Werriwa

.- I agree with the remarks of the honorable member for Macquarie (Mr. Manning). Probably before the commission meets, Parliament will be in recess, and we should have an assurance from the Government that” if, as the honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin) has said, the terms of reference are not wide enough to cover the charges he has made, they will be amended. After all, the person to decide whether the terms of reference are comprehensive enough to allow him to state his case to the commissioner, is the honorable member who made the accusation, and not the Ministers or the departmental heads who are accused. The Government’s neglect to consult the honorable member for Yarra in this regard was more than a lack of courtesy. If the terms of reference are not so extended as to cover the whole accusation, the royal commission will satisfy nobody. In the interests of justice, the request of the honorable member for Yarra should be acceded to. During recent weeks, debates have taken place regarding the interpretation to be placed upon a promise made by a former Prime Minister, and honorable members realized that the only person who could say definitely what that promise meant was the man who made it. Similarly, the only person who can say what was meant by the charges against the Government, in regard to the noncollection of land taxation, is the honorable member who made them.

Mr.FENTON (Maribyrnong) [3.23].- A simple and proper procedure would have been to hand over to the commissioner copies of Hansard containing the speeches of the honorable member for Yarra, and allow the commissioner to discover the charges and investigate them. If that were done, nobody could complain. The honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin) has told us that he has already appeared before the commissioner, who informed him that he was bound by the terms of reference. Apparently, the inquiry will be confined to a few set phrases torn from the context of the honorable member’s speech. The charges which the honorable member made are contained in his speeches; let them be investigated fully; but when a Ministry which isaccused of certain acts of maladministration, appoints a commission to inquire into those charges, but limits the scope of the investigation, it appears to be guilty of what the Americans term a “ frame up.”

Mr ANSTEY:
Bourke

.- Looking casually into the commission, T. do not see how the Government could fairly and honestly insert in the terms of reference the word “ exclusively,” which was not used by the honorable member for Yarra, whose speech clearly showed that he meant “ mainly.” The honorable member made a statement that, in respect to taxation on freeholds, £800,000 was owing. That was the result of a calculation based on the Treasurer’s statement that the amount owing on leaseholds was £1,300,000. The deduction of that amount from the £2,114,000, which was the total outstanding land taxation, gave a remainder of £800,000, apparently owing on freehold property. But the Treasurer subsequently amended his statement by declaring that the amount due on leaseholds was £1,600,000. That decreased the liabilities in respect of freeholds, but the royal commission is merely asked to declare whether it is a fact that £800,000 is due on freeholds, and the Government knows that the answer must be in the negative. The amended statement by the Treasurer is omitted from the reference, and thus the figures of the honorable member for Yarra will be made to appear wrong, whereas the error was in the original information given by the Treasurer. I shall say no more. We have made our protest, and it was better to do it before the inquiry commenced, than afterwards.

Question, - That the House do now adjourn - put. The House divided.

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

page 4405

QUESTION

CROWN LANDS

Mr MACKAY:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Whether a Commonwealth Deputy Commissioner of Taxation is entitled to assess as income the proceeds of the sale of Crown lands selected as an agricultural farm, where such land has been held by the payment of annual rents totalling the purchase price for which the freehold title is granted?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– The question is stated in an ambiguous way. It is not clear whether it relates to an agricultural farm for which a freehold title has been obtained before the sale, or to a case in which lease has not yet been actually converted into a freehold. If what was sold was a lease with a right of conversion into a freehold by the purchaser, but had not been converted to a freehold by the date of the sale, the vendor of the lease is subject to the provisions of section 16 d of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1922-1923, and if there is any part of the proceeds of the sale return able as income under that section, the Deputy Commissioner of Taxation must assess it for income tax. The Government proposes to introduce legislation which will exempt for the future the proceeds of the sale of leases with a right of purchase.

page 4405

QUESTION

IRON AND STEEL IMPORTS

Mr GREGORY:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. What tonnage of iron and steel was imported into Australia during the year 1923-4?
  2. What was the recorded value of such imports J
  3. What was the amount paid in duties on such imports - (a) under the Tariff Schedule, and(b) under the Australian Industries Preservation Act?
Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– The information is being obtained.

page 4405

BUTTER, WOOL, AND WHEAT PRODUCTION

Mr.FORDE asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

What was the total quantity and value of production of butter in Australia for 1931, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1919, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, and 1923-4?

What was the total quantity and value of butter exported for each of the abovementioned years?

What was the total quantity and value of the wool produced in Australia (a) in 1913-14; (b) in 1923-4; (c) what was exported, and what was used for local manufactures?

What was the quantity and value of the wheat produced in 1913-14 and in 1923-4, and what was the quantity and value of wheat (a) exported and (b) used for local consumption in each of the years mentioned?

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

-The information is being obtained.

page 4405

QUESTION

FRUIT AND SYNTHETIC ESSENCES

Mr FOSTER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; LP from 1922; NAT from 1925

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

What steps are being taken to introduce legislation to prevent synthetic soft drinks masquerading under certain fruit juice labels when the fruit juice so represented played no ]:art whatever in their manufacture?

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– The question of prohibiting the importation of all kinds of synthetic or artificially compounded fruit essences and flavours is now under consideration. It will be necessary for the states to co-operate to prevent misleading labels being applied to goods manufactured in Australia, or to imported goods after the latter have been released from control of the Customs Department. In instances where the synthetic essences are manufactured in Australia, the matter is entirely one for state legislation.

page 4406

QUESTION

WAREHOUSE LOCKERS

Mr FENTON:
for Mr. F. McDonald

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it proposed to abolish the clerical examination in the Public Service?
  2. Will warehouse lockers, who are fit for promotion, be promoted to 3rd grade before new appointees ?
  3. If the clerical examination is to be held in the future, will successful applicants go into 3rd or 4th grade?
  4. Will the Public Service Board recognize lockers, who have passed the clerical examination in the past, as belonging to the clerical or general division?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. No.
  2. Warehouse lockers will be considered for 3rd division positions, which they are competent to fill,in preference to new appointees.
  3. Successful applicants will be appointed to the 3rd division.
  4. For purposes of filling 3rd division positions, the present warehouse lockers will be regarded as officers of the 3rd division.

page 4406

QUESTION

BROOM-MILLET INDUSTRY

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the broom-millet growers are unable to dispose of their crops unless at heavy loss?
  2. Has the Tariff Board submitted their longpromised report on same?
  3. If not, when will the report be available?
Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. The growers state so, and the Tariff Board is inquiring into the facts.
  2. No.
  3. The Tariff Board is awaiting certain essential information from New South Wales, and expect to submit their report shortly.

page 4406

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Lands Acquisition Act-Land acquired in Federal Territory - For Federal Capital purposes.

Public Service Act - Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1924, No. 139.

War Service Homes Act - Land acquired at Hay, New South Wales.

page 4406

FEDERAL CAPITAL

Southern Intercepting Sewer

Mr ATKINSON:
Vice-Pre sident of the Executive Council · Wilmot · CP

. -I move -

That, in accordance with the provisions of the Public Works Committee Act 1913-1921, it is expedient to carry out the following proposed work, viz.: - Federal Capital - Southern intercepting sewer - extension of main intercepting sewer within city boundary from Commonwealth-avenue to Eastlake, which work has been investigated by the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, and on which the committee has duly reported to this House the result of its investigations.

On the31st July last, when it was decided to refer this matter to the Public Works Committee for investigation and report, the then Minister for Works and Railways (Mr. Stewart) gave full particulars of the proposal to the House, The Public Works Committee in its report recommends that the work be undertaken at an early date. This sewer, when constructed, will collect the sewage from Blandfordia and the Power House districts, in which settlement is said to be rapidly increasing. The estimated cost of the work is £47,000, and “it is considered that when Canberra has a population of 100,000, this sewer will serve 40,000 people.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 4406

NEW BILLS

Leave given to the Treasurer (Dr. Earle Page) to introduce the following bills : -

Income Tax Assessment Bill.

Income Tax Assessment (Live Stock) Bill.

Entertainments Tax Assessment Bill.

page 4406

DAIRY PRODUCE EXPORT CONTROL BILL

In committee (Consideration of GovernorGeneral’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Bruce) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a bill foi- an act relating to the export of dairy produce.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Bruce and Dr. Earle Page do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill presented by Mr. BRucE, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr BRUCE:
Prime Minister and Minister for External Affairs · Flinders · NAT

.- I move-

That the bill be now read a second time.

This bill is introduced because the Government realizes the necessity for taking action to provide for the control of the export of Australia’s surplus production of dairy produce. The purpose of the measure is to establish a board to organize the overseas market for Australian butter and cheese. All who study our present national circumstances must realize that the marketing of our surplus production is one of the greatest problems that we have to face. It is impossible for us to maintain our White Australia policy, or our present standard of living, or to ensure our national safety, unless we increase our population. But it is of no use for us to increase our population unless every individual who enters the country becomes a productive unit, and even productive units are of no value to us unless a payable market is available for their production. The problem of marketing our surplus production has become acute in the last few years. For many years our production was only sufficient to meet the requirements of the home market, and both our primary and secondary industries were in a substantial position, because our own people were able to purchase all their products. Gradually we reached the point when our production exceeded our home requirements, and of late years we have had to send more and more of our surplus production overseas. We are now faced with the position that unless we can find more extensive markets abroad it will be of no use for us to increase our production, and unless we can do so the development of our country will cease. That would be most detrimental to Australia. The interests of our primary and secondary industries are closely allied. Our secondary industries are absolutely dependent for their prosperity upon the success of our primary industries, and it is to our primary industries that we look to provide the greater part of our national finance. Australia is a debtor country, and we shall never overtake our indebtedness until we are able profitably to dispose of our large exportable surplus of good? in the markets of the world. The Gover: ment appreciates this position. another of our national problems that will neve be solved until we overcome the difficulties of marketing our products, is the concentration of the great bulk of our population in our cities. It is unfortunate in any country for the great majority of its people to live in its cities, but it is peculiarly deplorable in a country like Australia, for its wonderful potential resources can never be developed while its population is so settled. In view of all these circumstances, the necessity for giving careful consideration to the exploitation of oversea markets for our products is apparent. It may be that this bill is the right step to take to develop the necessary markets abroad, but if it is not, some other step must be taken, for the problem must be solved if Australia is to remain prosperous. In practically all our primary industries, there is an exportable surplus for which, with the exception of wool, we are finding it difficult to secure a profitable market. It is therefore necessary to attempt to meet the position without delay. The primary producer has to incur not only the ordinary risks of business, but two additional clearly defined classes of risk. In Australia, he is subjected to the natural risks due to seasonal vicissitudes, and he is also faced with great marketing risks. These drawbacks are so great that the great majority of the people living in the cities would hesitate long before accepting them. While much has been done to overcome the climatic risks with which the primary producer is faced, he will always be dependent to a considerable extent on the conditions that prevail from year to year. We havehad evidence of what can be done in the economic production of wheat in semi.arid areas, and steps have been taken to counteract the effects of periodical droughts by the storage of fodder. We hope that many disadvantages will be overcome as improved systems of transport are provided throughout the country. But despite all the scientific knowledge they may bring to the assistance of agriculture, thereby increasing the efficiency of their methods, the primary producers will always have to face great seasonal fluctuations. No other branch of industry is so liable to extraordinary instability of prices. There are wider variations in the prices of primary products than of almost any other commodity, due to a large extent to the fact that particular classes of produce have to be marketed every year at a particular period, and to the fact that the requirements of the consumer do not vary according to the seasons. The needs of the consumers are continuous, and are an inelastic quantity from year to year, but the supply is not continuous throughout the year, and it varies from year to year. Furthermore, a good season, with bountiful production, may not prove a blessing to the producer, for it may result in overproduction for that particular period, and decreased prices. The financial results to the producer, after a good season climatically, may not be so satisfactory as after a moderate season. On the other hand, when unfavorable meteorological conditions have resulted in a small production in, say, Australia, it may be that there is a tremendous production in other parts of the world, and therefore our producer receives no enhancement of price as a result of the diminution in the local supply.

Mr Stewart:

– Why not relieve the primary producers of some of the burdens which they are now carrying?

Mr BRUCE:

– The difficulties to be overcome are the natural risks and the marketing risks to which the industries are subject, but the bill before the House deals primarily with the marketing risks. Our primary products are disposed of partly on the Australian market, and partly on the overseas markets, and this Parliament must .recognize the nature and the extent of its obligations. The home or local markets are a responsibility of the states, but the disposal of our export surplus on the overseas markets is a matter that vitally concerns the Commonwealth The bill deals solely with the marketing overseas of Australia’s surplus dairy production, and has no reference to the local marketing. The necessity for organizing and controlling the marketing of our surplus products must be obvious to anybody who has had an opportunity of visiting the overseas markets, particularly those in Great Britain. To-day we are faced, not only with the organized competition of the Argentine Meat Trust and monopolies of that character, but we also have to contend against the organized opposition of industries in all primary producing countries, in many of which the industries receive government assistance and have the advantage of government banks. This complete’ change in the situation has been brought about by the economic disturbance due to the late war. While in pre-war days the marketing in Great Britain of the primary . products of most countries was done through individual channels, and there was no coordination of effort between the producers of any one country, the position is very different to-day. In the British market, at any rate, Australia’s surplus production will have to be disposed of in competition with the co-ordinated and cooperative marketing of our competitors. In the disposal of nearly all our great primary products there are innumerable sellers in- London competing for the custom of a limited number of buyers. If we continue to do business on those lines, we shall certainly be at a serious disadvantage in comparison with other countries. After the Imperial Conference last year, I spent a good deal of time in obtaining as much information as I could concerning the. marketing methods being adopted in connexion with Australia’s surplus production. The first thing that was obvious to me was that our supplies were coming forward through different agents, and that there was no co-ordination of effort on the part of the sellers of the produce.’ Another fact that impressed me was the lack of continuity of supplies. There is a period when a great deal of Australian produce is on the market. Possibly, by some great effort, by organization and propaganda, we might succeed in establishing a market for one of our primary products, such as dried fruits ; but, having done SO, through lack of continuity of supplies, the demand that had been created among the people of Great Britain could not be regularly met and the market would be lost. Another feature of the British market that strikes one is the loss of identity of Australian productions. In the case of butter, for instance, when the Australian article reaches Great Britain, it is sold by different persons; there is no coordination and the butter loses its identity altogether. At present, we are doing nothing to establish what is almost the greatest asset that one who is trying to sell anything can possess, and that is the good will of the persons to whom he is trying to sell. Another factor which has to be considered is the insufficiency of the propaganda carried on for the advertising of Australia’s productions. Something is being done at the present time to overcome .that difficulty in connexion with the exhibition at Wembley. It is essential that Australia should adopt better methods of propaganda in order to make her productions known to the people of Great Britain. From what I observed when I was in the Old Country, I am quite certain that if our productions were really brought under the notice of the British people, it would be found that a majority of them have a sympathetic desire to obtain their supplies from Australia. I was convinced that we shall be at a disadvantage, and shall never be in a satisfactory position until we organize the marketing and selling of the export productions of our primary industries. This must be done in such a way as to retain the Australian identity of our produce, to secure the continuity of supplies, control over our own production, and marketing in an orderly manner. There is another reason why we should realize that organization of our export services is necessary. At the Economic Conference, the questions of markets and preference were discussed at very great length. I moved a resolution that a permanent economic committee, consisting of representatives of all the self-governing parts of the Empire, should be appointed to consider the problems of Empire marketing. I suggested that it should have as its fundamental function the consideration of schemes which would lead to greater consumption of Empire productions in Great Britain, on a basis that would be mutually advantageous to the dominions producer and the British consumer. That scheme was accepted, and the Economic Conference recommended the establishment of such a committee. Subsequently the British Government changed its mind, and indicated that it was not desirous of going on with the scheme. That intimation came as a very considerable surprise to me, because I had discussed the matter with Ministers of the new Government, and found that they were favorable to it. Later the British Government again changed its mind, and some two or three months ago communicated with the dominions saying that it was desirous of going on with the scheme for the establishment of an economic committee, and asking whether the dominions were prepared still to co-operate. I understand that all the dominions have agreed to do so, and it is only a question of time when such a committee will be established. If it is brought into existence, and frames any schemes designed to benefit dominion producers, and at the same time assist consumers, of dominions productions in Great Britain, it cannot be expected that they will be successful, unless our great primary industries establish some orderly marketing system and control over their own productions. This, if no other reason existed, should be sufficient to recommend to this House some measure of control of the marketing of Australian productions. With regard to the bill now under consideration, dealing with the export of butter, I may say that proposals were submitted to the Commonwealth Government some mouths ago, asking that action should be taken to control the interstate trade and to fix the prices upon which it should be carried on. The Government refused to accept a scheme of that character, because it would be contrary to: the whole spirit of federation. When the Commonwealth came into being, it was intended that there should be no longer any restriction of trade between the states. To establish such a control as was suggested would certainly be a negation of the federal idea. The Government felt that it would not ultimately have been in the interests of the industry itself to take such action as was suggested. On a previous occasion I explained at great length why we took that view, and I do not propose to repeat what I said then. We also felt that the admission of such a principle would in the end be found to be disadvantageous to every one in the community, including those engaged in the production of dairy produce. If it were admitted that we should fix the price of butter, we should have to apply the same principle to all the other great necessities of the people, and this would inevitably tend to an increase in the cost of all commodities so dealt with. The cost of living would be increased, the rates of wages would be raised, and we should eventually get back to the point at which we are starting today. We should be faced with the same problems as those which are giving us so much difficulty at the present time. The Government would not accent the proposal, but at a conference of the dairying industry which I attended I indicated that we were quite prepared to consider the advisability of controlling the export surplus of dairy produce. As a result of the conference, certain proposals were submitted to the Government for legislation which might be introduced in order to give effect to the control proposed. At the conference I suggested that there should be some voluntary arrangement amongst those engaged in the industry, and if that could not be brought about, I said that the Government was prepared to bring down legislation following somewhat on the lines of the New Zealand act, unless the conference could submit a proposal which appeared to the Government to be more satisfactory. I indicated to those engaged in the industry that if orderly marketing were brought about, and a continuity of supply provided for, that would probably involve the holding of a certain amount of butter in cold storage, which would mean additional expenditure, and it might, further, be necessary to provide additional funds in order to make advances to producers directly. The Government indicated that it would be prepared to consider the question of granting financial assistance to the industry on the basis of advances against butter. Those engaged in the industry, after considering the proposals submitted at the conference, intimated to the Government that they did not anticipate that any financial assistance would be required. and that the industry would be able to finance itself. The Government is proposing to bring down a measure complementary to that now under consideration, giving the power in dealing with primary industries in connexion with which boards have been created to control the export trade, to make advances up to an amount not exceeding SO per cent, of the market value of the commodity over which the control board has authority. The Government has considered the proposals which the conference put forward, and the measure now under consideration is to a very large extent based upon those proposals and the New Zealand act. New Zealand was faced with the problems that confront us, and the New Zealand Parliament passed two acts to deal with them. It appointed control boards for two industries. In 1922, a control board was established for the meat industry, and, in 1923, one was established for the dairying industry. The act dealing with the meat, industry gives very wide powers, but they have not been exercised up to date. All the people interested in the industry have recognized the existence of the board of control, and have realized that the best results can be expected from co-operation amongst themselves. There has, so far, been no necessity for the exercise of any of the stringent powers contained in the act. The Meat Board in New Zealand at the present time is controlling all shipping of products in the industry. lt makes freight arrangements on behalf of the industry as a whole. It also regulates the monthly export quota of frozen meat from New Zealand. In addition, it fixes, every week, a reasonable price for sheep and cattle throughout New Zealand. Apart from this, the board has not interfered with the industry. The underlying principle of the New Zealand act, and also of this bill, -is to leave the industry free to avail itself of the ordinary channels, but to control it in such a way that, instead of those channels being used for the advantage of individuals, they shall be used for the general benefit of all the producers concerned. The bill now before the House provides that in connexion with the dairying industry there shall be a “board of control consisting of ten members. -One member will be elected by the Government; six are to be elected, one from each of the states, by the directors of the co-operative butter and cheese factories; two are to be elected by the proprietary companies; and one is to be appointed by the Government as a representative of the persons engaged as sellers of dairy produce outside the Commonwealth. The constitution of the board is designed to give fair representation to all interests in the industry, but there is, of course, an overwhelming representation of the producers themselves.

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– The right honorable gentleman might explain what is meant by the representative of those engaged as sellers of dairy produce.

Mr BRUCE:

– He will be the representative of those engaged in the business of selling butter overseas.

Mr West:

– The representative of “ Tooley-street.”

Mr BRUCE:

– Yes, if the honorable member wishes to describe him in that way. He will be the representative of one of the interests in the industry. The Government have given great consideration to the matter, and it feels that the board will be seriously handicapped in its work unless there is representation upon it of all the interests in the industry. If it is to function successfully, the representatives of the different interests will be able to bring to its counsels a certain amount of knowledge that should be of very great value to it. However, the constitution of the board is a matter for consideration in committee. The bill provides for an executive of five members. It has been felt that if all executive acts had to be decided upon at meetings of a committee consisting of ten members, the board would be hampered in its work, and it is therefore provided that there shall be an executive of five members drawn from the members of the control board. Provision is made for the establishment of a London agency, and on that agency the Government will have one representative. The agency will derive its authority from the control board, and will act onbehalf of the board in Great Britain. Its functions will be to advise the board with regard to the position of the market in Great Britain, and generally to advise asto the best methods of placing Australia’s surplus dairy produce on the British market. How far its functions will go must depend on the policy framed by the board when it is brought into existence. With regard to the powers of the board itself, the provision upon which the whole success of the bill depends is that no butter shall be exported from Australia except under a licence. That licence will be issued by the Minister for Trade and Customs, but the board will have the power to recommend to the Minister the terms and conditions upon which licences to export butter should be granted. The success of any scheme for the orderly marketing of our surplus dairy production will depend upon the way in which the board exercises its powers. The boards appointed in New Zealand have acted with great wisdom and prudence, and have demonstrated that there is every prospect of success following upon control of the export of butter. It is felt that if the Commonwealth board shows the same degree of prudence in its operations it will bring about a system of orderly marketing of Australia’s surplus dairy production which will prove of great advantage to our producers. The board will have power to accept for export any dairy produce which may be handed to it, and provision is made for that in the bill. The board will be required to secure from the Minister a licence to export on the same terms and with the same restrictions as attach to licences issued to other exporters of butter.

Mr.Fenton. - Will the board issue the licences?

Mr BRUCE:

– Licences will be issued by the Minister for Trade and Customs on the advice of the board. The terms and conditions are to be laid down by the board, but it will be open to the Minister to refuse to grant a licence or to decline to approve of any conditions laid down by the board. Like the New Zealand Meat and Dairy Control Board, the Australian board will have power to make contracts on behalf of the industry as a whole. By another bill, to be introduced subsequently, an amount not exceeding one-eighth of a penny in the case of butter, or one-sixteenth of a penny in the case of cheese, will be levied on all dairy produce that is exported. The amount so raised will be utilized by the board to further its scheme of marketing. The accounts of the board are to be subject to inspection and audit by the

Auditor-General, and the board will be required to furnish an annual report to the Minister for presentation to Parliament. Most of the provisions in the bill are matters for consideration in committee, which I need not elaborate further at the present moment.

Mr Fenton:

– Will the right honorable gentleman explain the provision for taking a plebiscite before the act is proclaimed?

Mr BRUCE:

– The act will not come into operation until a vote of the producers has been taken and until it is demonstrated that a majority of those producers are anxious to have this form of control over the exportation of their produce. In adopting that course, we are following the procedure of New Zealand in regard to meat and butter control. The establishment of control over the export of butter is a matter which does not affect the community as a whole and for that reason it is thought desirable to take a vote of the producers only before bringing a scheme into operation. The Government believe that the control proposed will prove of advantage to the producers and of subsequent benefit to the people of Australia generally. But it is only fair that the people directly engaged in the industry should be given an opportunity to express their opinion on an issue which concerns primarily themselves alone, and not the general community, for whom we legislate in the ordinary way in this Parliament.

Mr West:

-If the board creates a scarcity of butter in Australia, the price goes up, and thus the whole community is affected.

Mr BRUCE:

-That possibility does not arise. The bill defines “ producers “ as -

Persons carrying on business as suppliers of milk or cream to factories manufacturing dairy produce for export.

These producers will vote upon this issue. The principle to be considered on the second reading is the necessity for establishing a better system for the orderly marketing of our surplus production of dairy produce in Great Britain. The actual method proposed to be adopted is a matter . for consideration in committee. There is no doubt in the mind of any one who knows the present position of the markets of the world that it is essential for Australia to have a better system for the orderly marketing of its surplus production. New Zealand has set us an example by the adoption of a scheme which shows every sign of being successful, to the great benefit of the producers of the dominion. A proper system of control should place Australia in a better position to participate in any scheme that may subsequently be devised by the proposed Imperial Economic Committee. I have every confidence in recommending the bill for acceptance. It is the first step towards that organization of our primary industry which is so necessary. I am sure it will prove to be of great benefit to the producers of butter and cheese, and, ultimately, of benefit to the people of Australia as a whole..

Debate (on. motion by Mr. Anstey) adjourned.

page 4412

DRIED FRUITS EXPORT CONTROL BILL

In committee (Consideration of GovernorGeneral’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Bruce) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a bill for an act relating to the export of dried fruits.

Resolution reported. Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted. Ordered -

That Mr. Bruce and Mr. Pratten do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill presented by Mr. Bruce, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr BRUCE:
Prime Minister and Minister for External Affairs · Flinders · NAT

– I moveThat the bill be now read a second time. The provisions of this bill are almost identical with those of the Dairy Produce Export Control Bill. The measure relates solely to the export of dried fruits, and sets up a control board and a London agency, as does the other bill, with this difference, however, that this board will consist of six persons, as against ten provided for in the other measure. Of these six, one will be appointed by the Governor-General to represent the Commonwealth, three will be elected by the producers, and two will be appointed by the Governor-General for their commercial experience. It is thought that a,board of six can function without an executive such as has been provided for in the Dairy Produce Export Control Bill. Another measure subsequently to be introduced will provide for a levy of not more than one-eighth of a penny on each pound of dried fruit exported. The success of this bill will be more dependent on a third bill than will that of the Dairy Produce Export Control Bill. A few weeks ago, a measure was passed by this Parliament giving financial assistance to the dried fruits industry. The position of the industry is such that the growers cannot finance the export of their surplus produce. This is mainly due to the fact that under the land settlement schemes of the states many returned soldiers have been established in the industry, and there has been such a tremendous increase in production that the position of home consumption and export figures has been completely reversed. Instead of our consuming 80 per cent, of the production, leaving 20 per cent, available for export, our home consumption of dried fruits now accounts for only 20 per cent, of the production, leaving 80 per cent, for which a market must be provided overseas. The financial circumstances of those engaged in the industry are such that they are obliged to rely upon the assistance given by the bill already passed, and by another bill to be introduced, under which the Government will advance an amount not exceeding SO per cent, of the market value of the dried fruit available for marketing overseas.

Mr West:

– That is when it is packed.

Mr BRUCE:

– No ; when it is in the “ sweat-box,” to use the technical terms of the industry. All advances made by the Government will be secured on the fruit itself, and no advance can be made unless the board set up by this bill exercises full control over the fruit. This measure therefore, will operate somewhat differently from the Dairy Produce Export Control Bill, inasmuch as practically all the producers of dried fruits will avail themselves of the financial assistance up to 80 per cent., and they cannot get that assistance until they place their produce in the hands of the board. As a result, Australia’s export of dried fruits will, to a large extent, be in the hands of the board and under its control, and there will be only one marketing authority in Great Britain for these fruits. It will be the task of the board to examine the circumstances of the industry, and to bring about a reduction in the costs between the “ sweat box “ and the sale of fruit in Great Britain. Those costs are now far too high, but with a properly organized scheme of marketing they could certainly be reduced. There should be a larger margin of profit for the producers, and the Government is hopeful that the board, by its control of the export surplus, will greatly increase this margin. The underlying principles of the Government’s action are identical with these in the Dairy Produce Export Control Bill, and I set them out at such great length in moving the second reading of that bill that I do not now purpose to repeat them. I trust the House will give the. bill a speedy passage, because the industry is unquestionably in very serious difficulties, and unless better prospects are held out for those engaged in it, difficulty will be experienced in keeping them on their blocks. It is alleged in some quarters that there is over-production in the industry. That statement is not correct, for if we could organize our export trade in fruit it would probably be found that the amount grown would be insufficient to supply the markets available.

Debate Con motion by Mr. Gabb) adjourned.

page 4413

GRAFTON TO SOUTH BRISBANE RAILWAY BILL

In committee (Consideration of DeputyGovernorGeneral’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Bruce) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue and moneys be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to approve and provide for the carrying out of an agreement entered into between the Commonwealth of Australia and the states of New South Wales and Queensland respecting the construction of a railway of standard gauge between Kyogle and South Brisbane, and the regrading and relaying of the railway between Grafton and Kyogle, and to authorize the raising a,nd expending .of moneys for the purposes of the agreement.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended : resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Bruce and Dr. Earle Page do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill presented by Mr. Bruce, and read a first time.

page 4414

BANKRUPTCY BILL

Second Reading

Debate resumed from the 27th June (vide page 1722), on motion by Sir Littleton Groom -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr BRENNAN:
Batman

.- The Government, having pursued its course of late hours and riotousliving, has now, in the natural order of events, come in juxtaposition with the bankruptcy court. It is said of this bill that it is essentially a lawyer’s bill, and that it can be considered more properly in committee than on the motion for the second reading. The Government is proceeding so rapidly into the haven of recess, in spite of the opposition which the official Opposition, in the interests of the country, is making to its progress, that even I am somewhat loath to place obstacles in itsway. I therefore do not purpose to detain it with a long, or, if I can help it, a tiresome speech. I do not admit that this bill is essentially or necessarily either a lawyer’s bill or one for consideratiou in committee. As a matter of fact, it is well known that the lawver usually loses interest in the estate once it has passed into the hands of the public liquidator. I say of this bill that it is an intensely human document. It is a bill, not. for lawyers, but for poets and melodramatists. It is a bill to inspire the creative genius of writers of romance. It runs the gamut of human emotions, and represents the triumph of bleak experience over radiant hope. From beginning to end, it is a veritable epic of calamity. My speech, so far, is what pressmen would call my “introduction,” and, like most pressmen’s introductions, it has been carefully prepared in advance, with just an artistic semblance of spontaneity to grace it. I adopt gratefully the quotation from Mr. Ringwood, made by the Attorney-General (Sir Littleton Groom), when moving the second reading of the bill. Mr. Ringwood states -

The chief aim of bankruptcy should be to combine and regulate two great objects: first, the distribution of the debtor’s effects in the most expeditious, equal, and economical manner; and, secondly, his release from his creditors, whenhe has made a full disclosure and surrender of his property, and has not been guilty of fraud or misconduct.

I adopt Mr. Ringwood’s words for a number of reasons. First, he is a master of arts and a barrister-at-law ; secondly - and this is a stronger reason - he is an Irishman ; and, thirdly, and most potently of all, I am convinced that he is a poet. 1 am sure that he did not intend his treatise on the bankruptcy law to be regarded as a poem, but, fortunately, it is so, and, at the risk of appearing to digress even for a moment, I remind the House that it was Coleridge, I think, who wrote a poem on an ass tethered to a stake, and that it was Wordsworth who addressed an ode to a footstool. In the light of those precedents, there is no reason to complain of Mr. Ringwood for writing a poem on bankruptcy. I have spoken of the bill as “ an epic of calamity,” but it is only fair to say that the calamity is not always exclusively that of the debtor. Sometimes he rises, like the Phoenix, out of the ashes of his dead self, and soars into the realm of happy prosperity ; while the creditor wilts and fades away until ultimately we find his name in the list of insolvents, where he gives, as one of the reasons of his insolvency, “bad debts.” That is well illustrated by the lines of Goldsmith, who, honorable members will remember, wrote touchingly about the highly respectable citizen who was bitten by a mad dog -

But soon a wonder came to light,

That showed the rogues they lied,

The man recover’d of the bite,

The dog it was that died.

I observe that the Government have elected to employ the term “ bankruptcy,” instead of “ insolvency.” “ Bankruptcy “ is a harsh, ruthless term, while “insolvency,” on the other hand, is soft, delicate, and soothing, like the murmur in the evening of a low tide on a shelving beach. It is curious that, with the idolatry of property that has characterized the evolution of history, inability to pay one’s debt was in other times regarded as a crime in itself, though, in fact, there may have been nothing criminal about it. There was in those days scant regard for human life and emotion and the poetry of existence, but high regard for the transcendent claims of property. For property, men nave been hanged or banished, or even worse things have befallen them. The only presentday parallel for the former harsh treatment of bankrupts is to be found in the vicinity of Melbourne. Proceeding in a north-westerly direction, one may arrive at the suburb known as Flemington, where persons known as “ welsher3 “ occasionally operate. These persons, on finding their commitments to be in excess of their resources, sometimes take refuge in flight, when their creditors, if sufficiently alert, make a rapid descent upon whatever assets they possess, and when these fail to realize sufficient, execute speedy judgment by throwing the defaulters into the Saltwater River. It is very curious that that was the course adopted in the early days of insolvency proceedings on the shores of the Mediterranean. When the Italian trader at his little bench was found to be in financial difficulties, his creditors, instead of going through an elaborate procedure such as that provided for in this bill, simply made a raid upon the bench, and dealt with the debtor in similar summary fashion. The result was described as banca rot ta, from which we got banca rupta, and thus our term “bankrupt.” We have passed beyond those unhappy times, but there is an historical case for the distinction between “ bankruptcy” and “insolvency,” and I think the Minister is technically right in retaining for the title of this bill the harsher term “bankruptcy.” Insolvency did not apply to traders, but bankruptcy did. “ Insolvent “ denoted the gentlemanly position of the superior person who could not for the moment pay his debts, and’ was suffering from a sort of financial constipation, for which the law provided a mild and painless aperient. In 1861, the provisions of the bankruptcy law were extended to nontraders - to gentlemen as well as to mere men of business. The Attorney-General, with that reverence for tradition which I share, though only to an attenuated extent, has preserved “bankruptcy” as the title for the law which we are considering, and has rejected “ insolvency,” a term with which we are more familiar in the State of Victoria, where we have become accustomed to speak of “ insolvency “ and not of “ bankruptcy.” The honorable and learned gentleman has failed in this regard to follow the prac tice of the principal state of the Commonwealth. I have referred to the incidental hardships of the bankrupt, but it has to be borne in mind - in fact, it follows from what I have said - that the bankruptcy laws have ameliorated the condition of the debtor. This legislation is really a paternal interposition of the law in favour of that unfortunate. Not so very many years ago the debtor was thrown into prison. That great reformer, to whom the present and succeeding generations cannot be too grateful - I refer to Charles Dickens - has called attention in some of his powerful books to the conditions under which debtors “were in his days imprisoned. Most of his readers will have a lively recollection of the unfortunate incidents which followed the judgment in the immortal case of Bardell v. Pickwick, when Mr. Pickwick was cast into prison for refusing to pay the damages awarded against him. There he would have remained but for the unexpected advent of Mrs. Bardell. His gallant nature not allowing him to leave a lady in distress, he paid what he owed and was forthwith liberated. This incident may seem foreign to the subject under discussion, but it serves to emphasize the fact that there is now no imprisonment for failure to pay one’s debts, though imprisonment may be, and sometimes is, inflicted in certain circumstances for the faudu-lent, non-payment of debts. That happens when the non-payment has a criminal aspect, and there is what lawyers term mens rea, that is, a guilty intention in what is done. The debtor, in the words of the AttorneyGeneral in introducing the bill, and which I adopt, is not to be “merely the prey of the creditor.” It is a good phrase, suggesting the vulture or the carrion crow picking at the bones of a still living caTcass. The law interposes to prevent this. I was entertained, however, by the honorable gentleman’s suggestion that the measure should be regarded as one of some urgency, owing to the manifold and intricate operations of bankruptcy throughout the Commonwealth. I find that the subject first came under the purview of this House as a result of a conference which sat in 1907. Its deliberations took form in 1912 in a bill which, by a ‘stupendous effort, arrived at the first-reading stage.

In 1914 clause 179 of the then current bill was reached, further consideration being deferred owing to the outbreak of war, when works of mercy were abandoned for works of slaughter, and the measure was not taken up again until 1922. The Attorney-General said that the bill was an act of mercy. But I have always thought that mercy should be quick, eager, instant; it is justice that is proverbially heavy-footed and slow, though

Ave may flatter ourselves that it is sure. This consideration leads me to think that when the people of succeeding generations are thoughtfully picking the moss from the monument which a grateful public will have erected to the Nationalist party and its Governments, they will say that among many good deeds which they did in a naughty world was to conceive an act of mercy in 1907

The act shall not affect -

  1. any provision in any State Bankruptcy or Insolvency Act relating to matters not dealt with in or within the scope of this act.

One would think that that provision was hardly necessary in view of the terms of the Constitution. There are matters over which this Parliament has exclusive jurisdiction, but bankruptcy is not one of them, and the only limitation that is placed upon the powers of the State Parliaments is in the terms of section 109 of the Constitution, which provides that when a law of the state is inconsistent with a law of the Commonwealth the latter shall prevail, and the former shall to the extent of such inconsistency be invalid. There is, therefore, no exclusive Commonwealth jurisdiction in the matter of bankruptcy, and I wonder why the clause I have quoted is inserted in the bill. I mention it only because it touches the fundamental jurisdiction of the Commonwealth, and affords me an opportunity for pointing, out that in that regard the people owe very little to honorable members opposite. The nation will, I hope, recognize in years ‘to come that it owes a great deal to members on this side of the House for the efforts they have consistently made to enlarge the powers of this Parliament in face of the stern opposition of the parties now in power. However, the residuum of power still resides with the states. The bill applies to married women, foreigners, and persons enjoying the privileges of Parliament. It has been said that some of us might have had to make use of our privilege, but for certain corporate action which we took in 1920 to fortify ourselves financially. The English statute- upon which the bill is largely based applies to married women in only a modified degree. The fact is that, with the passage of time and the evolution of circumstances, a married woman’s proprietary rights have been extended until to-day she stands almost on an equality with man in that regard. If there is one thing necessary to put her in the position of complete equality it is that in every department of activity there shall be equal pay for equal work, a principle earnestly advocated by honorable members on this side. The coping-stone will be added to the work of English jurisprudence in that regard when the equal rights of women in the material sense are recognized. Of course, there has never been any limitation .of the prerogative of a wife to render her husband insolvent. Upon that point I speak historically, and without personal experience. Turning to the English act, I find that peers and members of the House of Commons are conveniently grouped with felons and lunatics. Some people might say that nobody but a lunatic would become insolvent. I counter that by saying that many wise men have done so. The bill proposes the division of the states into districts -

For the purposes of this act the GovernorGeneral may declare any part of the Commonwealth to be a district.

That is worthy of serious comment, because it represents the unconscious adoption of Labour’s policy of dividing the Commonwealth, not according to state boundaries, but for greater convenience in local government. It is curious how casually and unwittingly the Government, when dealing with a practical subject of this kind, begins to adopt piecemeal Labour’s ideas. In connexion with the distribution of the bankrupt’s estate, I notice, with regret, that the pampered landlord has not been overlooked. I have no prejudice against the landlord - indeed, for a few fleeting weeks, I myself might have been so designated - but I call him pampered because, under the English law, he is the only person who can seize another person’s property for debt without judgment of a court; indeed, in certain cases he has power without such judgment to pursue, overtake, and seize a debtor’s goods, and we are aware of his long standing prerogative, which he has exercised so freely in many times and places, of evicting the tenant according to processes of law. Under the English act he may continue distraint even after the unfortunate debtor has sequestrated his estate, but it is only fair to say that that power is not retained in this bill. The bill does, however, secure the landlord in his preferential treatment. It is true that the wages of a clerk or servant, for a term of not more than four months and for an amount not exceeding £50, will have priority over the claim of the landlord, but there is a vast difference between the two classes of creditors. To the wage-earner, his wages are everything; and if he does stand out of them patiently, hoping that the undertaking out of which they are to be paid will ultimately prosper, only to find eventually that the business has failed, and his employer has become insolvent, his position becomes very grave indeed, and all systems of bankruptcy have recognized that preference should be given to the wage-earner to secure his wages. This bill does not secure him beyond an amount of £50 and arrears owing for a period of four months. That is a niggardly provision, and I hope that in committee it will be substantially liberalized. It is, 1 thiiik, a copy of the Victorian provision.

Mr Bowden:

– And of the Kew South Wales law, too.

Mr BRENNAN:

– I am not sure that the Victorian provision is not even less liberal. However, the bill does in another way offer a measure of mercy to the wage-earner who has the misfortune to become insolvent, by providing that his tools, implements, and instruments of trade, and the necessary wearing apparel of himself and family, not exceeding in value £20, shall be exempt from seizure by the trustee. It is curious that at this time in our history, when the prices of twenty years ago have practically doubled, there should be no improved proposal to alter the law to protect the wage-earner in regard to the necessaries of life. I sincerely hope that the Government will not think of insistingupon so poor a safeguard of the interests of the worker who is compelled to take advantage of the insolvency law.

Mr Scullin:

– Is the £20 the same amount as appeared in the bill when it was originally introduced?

Mr BRENNAN:

– Yes ; and the same provision appears in the insolvency law of Victoria, and possibly of the other states. I do not propose to go into the details of the bill, which contains a large number of clauses. If I dealt with the measure in detail possibly the Government might be put off the measure for another fifteen years. Now that we are in the mood to pass a Bankruptcy Bill we should do so. Of course, there is every prospect that the bill would, in a certain event, be passed expeditiously after the next general election, for reasons which delicacy forbids me to refer further. But, apart from that consideration, I think this Government might now be allowed to place upon its head the Growning glory of this achievement. It should be entitled to claim that it had passed a Bankruptcy Bill in seventeen years. The measure is really wanted.

We need to give an Australian operation to this law for reasons similar to those that induced the Government to introduce another bill dealing with the Australian operation of the service and execution of process. In the interests of practical uniformity, in the interests of all classes, including the workers, and in the interests of commerce and manufacture, we should place this bill, in an amended and, I hope, a better and more liberal form, upon the statute-book. I invite the House, after honorable members have delivered their second-reading speeches, to come down from those empyrean heights to which I have endeavoured to raise the consideration of this subject to the practical details which can only be dealt with adequately in committee.

Mr CORSER:
Wide Bay

– After the very able speech by the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan), I feel somewhat at a disadvantage, but I have been requested . by a number of people in Queensland, representatives of the Chamber of Commerce and trustees, to direct attention to the omission from this bill of certain desirable provisions in the Queensland law passed by the late Sir Samuel Griffith 49 years ago. I shall state the case as briefly as possible. This bill is an extremely intricate measure, of interest chiefly to professional men, business men, and trustees. The bill prohibits assignments for the benefit of creditors. This practice has proved most satisfactory in Queensland, where fully 1,000 estates have been dealt with since Bir Samuel . Griffith passed the Queensland insolvency law in 1874. This law was amended in 1876, and has proved to meet requirements for the last 49 years. The Queensland act extended the theory of fraudulent preference by sections 108 and 109. I trust that the Acting AttorneyGeneral will permit those sections to be inserted in the bill, and when the measure is in committee, I shall move for their inclusion. This bill retains the provisions of section 107 of the Queensland act, which , renders voidable any payments made or security given with a view to giving preference to any creditors. But there is an important omission from this bill, namely, the provisiou that pressure by a creditor shall not protect any transaction. This weakens the efficiency of the clause. To meet the demands of a young country like Australia, the insolvency law should be simple and economical. I fear that, on the contrary, the cost of insolvency proceedings will, under this measure, be enormously increased, and administration made more cumbersome. The bill also omits the Queensland provisions with regard to liquidation by arrangement. This enables instant possession to be taken by creditors, through a receiver, without any law costs, and permits of a reliable report being presented to the first meeting of creditors. It also provides for the punishment of offences and for the recovery of preferences, as well as a veto power io creditors on the debtor’s discharge. Another omission is the Queensland provision for the examination on oath of a debtor by a trustee. This has been found to be extremely beneficial, often saving a court examination, and costs of from £25 to £150, and usually it is quite as effective. There is nothing in the bill to meet cases where creditors wish the business to be carried on for gradual realization, paying the trustee a nominal commission, usually 1 per cent., for his supervision.

Mr Brennan:

– Does the honorable member suggest that the trustee should be free from official interference?

Mr CORSER:

– No. In practice, the system has worked very well. In cases where a debtor may be living 200 or 300 miles away, the trustee is empowered to make an examination on oath, so as to get a true state of his affairs, and report to the meeting of creditors. If the report is favorable, the creditors may assist the debtor by extending his credit until improved seasonal prospects enable him to get on his feet again.

Mr Bowden:

– Does the honorable member suggest that the trustee in bankruptcy should carry on a dairy farm ?

Mr CORSER:

– No; but in Queensland creditors of a country storekeeper frequently extend his credit, provided he extends the credit of dairymen and other primary producers, who through adverse seasons may not be able to pay him. In this way a debtor is enabled subsequently to meet his obligations. In scores of instances within my knowledge this course has been adopted with every success.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– This bill will not prevent that.

Mr CORSER:

– There is no provision in the measure to enable estates to be carried on in the manner I have indicated.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– That would be a matter of arrangement between the creditors, I should think.

Mr CORSER:

– Creditors very often wish to take that course, paying the trustee 1 per cent, on the turnover and 5 per cent, on subsequent realization. There is no power to do it under this bill.

Mr Bowden:

– Does the honorable member mean that if a country storekeeper in financial difficulties is carried on by a wholesale house, a commission of 1 per cent, on the turnover should be granted to the trustee ?

Mr CORSER:

– Yes.

Mr Bowden:

– I have no objection to that.

Mr CORSER:

– It is a very important provision so far as Queensland is concerned. Under this bill a person may not solicit for a trusteeship. I can quite understand that this should apply in Victoria, where the distances are not so great, but in a vast country like Queensland young business men in country towns should not be prevented from soliciting for trusteeships when they could be employed to the advantage of both debtor and creditor. A young fellow in the country who, perhaps, has had experience in a bank or in a stock and station agent’s office, may hear that a storekeeper is in trouble financially, and ask to be permitted to act as trustee. The creditors would naturally inquire into his credentials, and if he were capable and honest he might be asked to accept the trusteeship to take an audit and report. In such a case the expense of sending a trustee from Brisbane or Rockhampton away out west would be saved. No objection can possibly be taken to the practice of soliciting for trusteeships, hut under the bill it will be an offence. No fault “has been found with the Queensland provision. The manager of one of the largest trustee firms in Brisbane has informed me that he cannot see any wisdom in prohibiting persons from soliciting for trusteeships. How are new trustees to be obtained if persons cannot solicit for business? In any case, one would not be bound to employ them. Compositions and assignments without sequestration, under part XI. of the bill, to some extent take the place of liquidation by arrangement and composition with creditors, as provided under parts IX. and X. of the old Queensland Insolvency Act. Part IX. of the latter section provides a convenient method of winding up a debtor’s affairs without making him insolvent. It confers upon the creditors the absolute control of their meetings, and the right to appoint a receiver without any application to the court; the debtor’s discharge is entirely at their discretion. Part X. provides that creditors of a debtor unable to pay his debts may, without any proceedings in insolvency, resolve that a composition shall be accepted in satisfaction of the debts due to them from the debtor.

Mr Bowden:

– That can be done under part XI. of the bill relating to compositions and assignments without sequestration.

Mr CORSER:

– I hope that the Minister will later deal with this subject, so that the people of Queensland may learn, through Ilansard, that in his opinion the bill conforms with the Queensland act. This provision has been in operation in Queensland for years. It is a simple and easy method of enabling a debtor at small expense! to relieve himself from pressing liabilities. It also enables creditors to treat leniently a debtor towards whom they desire to show indulgence. It is a speedy, effective, and inexpensive procedure, and a similar provision should be included in the bill. Section 108 of the Queensland act, which is omitted from the bill, includes every transaction which was not made for a reasonable and sufficient consideration given . at the time. This provision has frequently been availed of by trustees. The principal provision of section 109 of the Queensland act, which we are also to lose, renders voidable any transaction which diminishes the property to be divided among the creditors. It also has been the means of recovering valuable assets for estates. It will be observed that clause 95 of the bill, for the voidance of preferences, applies only to creditors, and any person who is not a creditor but is a party to a fraudulent transfer of a pro.party, cannot be attacked. I have been informed by trustees of ‘ long standing, who have large staffs and a solicitor and a barrister at their command, that under the bill only preferences that are given to creditors can be attacked, and they consider that the bill should contain the Queensland provision allowing an attack on those who are not creditors. In a case of this kind in Warwick, £4,000 was obtained for the creditors. In another case, in Gympie, £2,000 was obtained. The insolvent transferred property to his family to defraud his creditors. Sections 108 and 109 of the Queensland act made it perfectly clear to the court that the trustees were entitled to these amounts. But under this bill I fear they would have been lost to the creditors. Sections 108 and 109 are preference provisions peculiar to Queensland, and have proved by experience to be very desirable. There is no provision in the bill for a minimum remuneration to a trustee on small troublesome estates. Of course, through the courts these estates can be wound up, but, as honorable members know, a government receiver has not the full information and time at his command that n trustee has - a man who obtains through the circulation of weekly gazettes particulars of all cases that have been before the courts, whether the District Court, the Supreme Court or the Petty Debtors Court.

Mr Bowden:

– That would apply to a few trustees only.

Mr CORSER:

– I know of one trustee in Sydney, and two others in Brisbane, who receive full particulars of all cases before the courts. They know the best method of realizing a small estate. The payment of remuneration to a trustee by results is not justified by experience. Many estates are inherently impossible of good results, and they cannot be wound up fairly and justly under the system of payment by results. The good definition of proper books of account in the bill of 1912, that they shall contain a record of all goods bought, all goods sold, all cash received, and all cash paid, is’ omitted from the criminal clauses of the bill except that if a man has been insolvent before, or if he has previously called a meeting of his creditors, it is a criminal offence not to keep such records. Why should not a debtor be punished for failing to keep a proper record of his dealings ?

Mr. Bowden. He will be punished by not having a certificate granted to him. It would be rather harsh to place a man in gaol simply becausehehad failed to keep certain books.

Mr CORSER:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · LP; NAT from 1917

– In Queensland, no attempt has been made to put such a man in gaol, but the effect of the act has been to make people very careful to keep reasonable accounts “of their dealings. It is only fair and just that the Queensland provision should be included in the bill. Part XII. of the bill provides for assignments, but terms them deeds of arrangement. In Queensland, a debtor in financial difficulties may, with the consent of his creditors, execute a deed of assignment. A deed of assignment may be broadly defined as a contract in writing between the debtor, creditors, and the trustee, whereby the debtor agrees to assign the whole of his assets to a trustee for the benefit of his creditors. That is the most simple and convenient method for dealing with an estate, and releasing a debtor from his liabilities. It is very economical, the legal costs rarely exceeding one guinea. When a man has been proved to be honest, and severe floods or droughts have caused him to lose heavily, why should he not be allowed to assign his estate without the necessity for taking insolvency proceedings, which may leave a stain upon his character ?

Mr West:

– Could he not compromise with his creditors under the act?

Mr CORSER:

– That means a greater amount of publicity. The Queensland provision has worked for 50 years, and given universal satisfaction. Why, then, should we depart from it?

Mr Bowden:

– The- Queensland act provides for registration.

Mr CORSER:

– There is no publicity in the Queensland method.

Mr Bowden:

– There will be no greater publicity under this provision.

Mr CORSER:

– Liquidation by arrangement, with its immediate control of the estate by the creditors, and absolute control for all time of the insolvent’s discharge, is entirely cut out of this bill. The automatic stoppage of adverse proceedings by the appointment of a receiver will also be rendered impossible. A far greater hardship will be the prohibition of assignments for the benefit of creditor’s who are outside the act. White’s Mercantile Agency, a firm in Brisbane, has informed me that that plan has been carried out in the administration of fully 1,000 estates. Its elasticity and economy commend themselves to creditors so much that of late years it has become the method most frequently adopted in the winding-up of estates. The bill proposes to make that procedure a criminal offence. Why cannot creditors be allowed to manage their affairs in the manner which experience has shown to be the most advantageous? In the case of an unfortunate debtor, whose creditors are sympathetically inclined towards him, that practice combines a minimum of publicity and expense with a maximum dividend. It is naturally the most acceptable course to the debtor. The bill does not provide for the private examination of the bankrupt upon oath by the trustee. That is regarded as a most desirable proceeding, as a good deal of expense is thereby saved. If many of the Queensland provisions were included in the bill, a great deal of legal expense would thereby be saved, because judgments have been given upon the Queensland provisions by the higher courts, and there is not very much likelihood of those judgments being challenged. It is considered advisable that the examination of a bankrupt should take place before a special instead of a common jury. The special jury panel in Queensland has upon it men who possess business knowledge and experience. That is not the case with the common jury panel. A special jury would be as sympathetic as a common jury, but because of its knowledge of business and finance, it would be more likely to see that justice was done. The provision which gives to the ofiicial trustee the monopoly of estates of a value under £300 is manifestly unfair and undesirable.In many cases it will be impossible to decide immediately whether an estate will be above or below that limit. Estates can be wound up much more economically, and with greater satisfaction to all parties, by an outside trustee. I have had several interviews with the acting AttorneyGeneral, and I trust that he will consider favorably my suggestion that we should continue to enjoy the provisions that we have so long enjoyed in Queensland.

Mr HURRY:
Bendigo

.- I express the satisfaction that I think every resident of Australia must feel that this billhas reached its present stage. I congratulate the Attorney-General upon his lucid explanation of its provisions, and his staff upon the preparation of various comparative statements that enable any person to see exactly those portions of the laws of the states that have been left out of this measure, and the new provisions that have been included.

Mr West:

– Are we to understand that nothing is good except that which comes out of Victoria?

Mr.HURRY. - The Victorian insolvency law is more up to date than that of any other state. In 1915 it was codified by the present Acting Chief Justice of Victoria. As the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan) has said, some of the states have undoubtedly fallen down on. the job of codifying their insolvency laws because the Commonwealth proposed to introduce this measure. There can be only one answer to the question whether it is advisable to pass this bill. Every business man knows that it is absolutely necessary to have one bankruptcy or insolvency law throughout the whole of Australia. Consider the case of a resident of Mildura, Victoria. On the other side of the river, a few miles distant, is the town of Wentworth, and a little further on is the townof Renmark. If a man becomes insolvent in Mildura and is careless or dishonest, he can easily remove himself from the jurisdiction of the Victorian court. Suppose that one of his assets is a motor car. He can slip across the river to Wentworth, to which place the Victorian assignee or trustee would find it very difficult to follow him. His solicitor would inform him that the jurisdiction of the Victorian court does not extend to Wentworth, and it would be necessary to forward the matter to his agent in Sydney. The long arm of the law would reach out from Melbourne to Sydney, and back again to Wentworth. It might then be found that the man had escaped to Renmark, and proceedings would have to be commenced afresh. The Melbourne agent would have to communicate with Adelaide, from which city the long arm of the law could reach out to Renmark. If that can happen in an area embracing three towns that are only 100 miles apart, what could happen in the whole of Australia, which has a length of 4,000 miles by a breadth of 3,000 miles, and a coastline of 12,000 miles? The rights of debtors and creditors must be considered. If the debtor can make over to his creditors the assets to which he is entitled, and obtain his release, the method adopted will not make very much difference to him. The matter is entirely different, however, when considered from the point of view of the creditor. In addition to the ordinary insolvency provisions relating to small bankruptcies, there is Part XI., which deals with compositions and assignments without sequestration, and Part XII., which relates to deeds of arrangement. If the amendments forecast by the honorable member for Wide Bay (Mr. Corser) are accepted, there will be two additional methods, dealing with liquidation by arrangement and composition of creditors. Ihave read over very carefully the proposals of the honorable member, and I think there is very little need for them, as those matters are adequately dealt with in Parts XI. and XII. There may be some slight details that it will be advantageous to adopt. I notice that the honorable member for Lilley (Mr. Mackay) is to bring forward an amendment in relation to priorities which is designed to give special consideration to claims by carriers. I shall be interested to hear the honorable member in support of that proposal. I cannot see why a carrier should be given priority over practically everybody else. The honorable member may be able to put forward such a strong case that we shall be prevailed upon to assist him to have his amendment accepted. The summary administration in small bankruptcies provided for by clause 154 will prove beneficial. That clause provides -

Where a sequestration order is made against a debtor, if the court is satisfied by affidavit or otherwise, or if the official receiver reports to the court that neither the assets nor the liabilities of the debtor are likely to exceed in value £300, the court may make an order that the debtor’s estate be administered in a summary manner, and thereupon the provisions of this act shall, in relation to the bankruptcy, be subject to such modifications as are prescribed for such cases with the view of simplifying procedure and saving expense.

The value of that provision will depend mainly upon what modifications are prescribed. I see no reason for the displace- ment of the official receiver by a trustee. I think that in a small estate, especially when there is such a short circuit as the Minister foreshadows, the official receiver can well be entrusted with the whole of the work.

It will be of great advantage to have uniform legislation throughout Australia If we find that certain provisions of the measure do not work satisfactorily, we can amend them from time to time. It will be far better to have one bankruptcy law for the whole of Australia, even if it is not perfect, than to have different, but perfect, bankruptcy laws in each state.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.

Clause 4 -

I’n this Act, unless the contrary intention appears . . . . “ Registrar “ means a Registrar in Bankruptcy or Deputy Registrar in Bankruptcy. “ The Court “ means any Court having jurisdiction in bankruptcy or a Judge thereof.

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the words “ or Deputy Registrar in Bankruptcy “ be left out with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words, “ and includes a Deputy Registrar in Bankruptcy when exercising any of the powers or functions of the Registrar.”

Mr DUNCAN HUGHES:
Boothby

.- The definition of “The Court” appears to me to give a good opportunity to raise a matter also referred to by clause 18. Sub-clause 2 of clause 18, reads -

The jurisdiction in bankruptcy of a State Court or Court of a Territory may be exercised -

in the case of a State Court by such one or more Judges of the Court as the Governor-General with the concurrence of the Governor of the State appoints for that purpose; and

in the case of the Court of a Terri tory by such one or more Judges of the Court as the Governor-General appoints for that purpose.

Insolvency jurisdiction in South Australia is vested, in the first instance, in a Commissioner of Insolvency, although there is the right of appeal to the Supreme Court from any decision of the Commissioner of Insolvency. But if the definition of “The Court” and clause 18 are agreed to, it seems to me that an important alteration of the existing practice in South Australia will have to be made, notwithstanding that it has been satisfactory since its establishment in 1886 - 38 years ago. I doubt very much whether the South Australian Government would agree to such an alteration. It would also be undesirable from the South Australian stand-point for the reason that there is not only considerable congestion of work in the Supreme Court of South Australia, but also very limited accommodation. Several years ago, a fourth judge was appointed in South Australia, but, in spite of that, all the judges have their hands full. The accommodation in the Supreme Court building is so limited that sometimes cases have to be heard in chambers instead of in the court rooms, which causes considerable inconvenience to every one concerned. If we agree to this definition and to clause 18, one of two alternatives will have to be faced. Either the South Australian Government will have to appoint another judge, or give to the pre- sent Commissioner of Insolvency the status of a judge of the Supreme Court, which I do not think it would do, or else the Commonwealth Government will have to appoint a judge to deal with the insolvency work in that state, which will mean incurring considerable expense. I suggest to the Minister that an amendment be made to the definition and to clause 18, to provide that where the insolvency work is at present being done by a Commissioner of Insolvency, as in South Australia, that practice may be continued.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– Our constitutional power to delegate judicial authority is limited, for we can transfer it only to a court and not to a person. If the Commissioner of Insolvency in South Australia presides over a properlyconstituted court, as I believe he does, no difficulties will arise from the passing of this legislation. In New South Wales there is a Registrar of Bankruptcy and a Bankruptcy Court. So long as there is a recognized court to which we can delegate judicial authority no difficulties will arise.

Mr DUNCAN-HUGHES:
Boothby

– It appears to me, from the provision of clause IS, which I quoted a few minutes ago, that under this bill bankruptcy jurisdiction can only be vested in a judge, and that is the position which I desire to avoid.

Mr FENTON:
Maribyrnong

– If the Government expects the judges of the various state supreme courts to exercise jurisdiction under this measure it will, in my opinion, be left lamenting. I believe that the judges of every state in Australia already have more than enough work to keep them busy.. In Victoria, not long ago, a Supreme Court judge was required to conduct a certain inquiry, but the Government was informed that there was not one available.

Mr Bowden:

– In most of the states, supreme court judges are exercising bankruptcy jurisdiction at present.

Mr FENTON:

– That is so, but I am afraid that the passing of this measure will place a good deal more work on the judges than they are obliged to do under the state acts, and this Parliament should make up its mind now whether it is willing, if the need should arise, to appoint additional judges to do this work, in the event of the state judges refusing to do it. I shall be glad if the Minister can give me an assurance that the passing of this bill will not mean the incurring of considerably greater expense without compensating benefits to the people. I can see very little hope of obtaining any help from the judges of the Victorian Supreme Court in administering the measure.

Mr Duncan-Hughes:

– If the bill is passed in its present form, it is quite probable that the services of a number of men who have been specially trained in this class of work will be lost.

Mr FENTON:

– That is possible. If the proposal made by the honorable member for Boothby, to place the administration of at least parts of the proposed uniform bankruptcy law on commissioners or registrars could be adopted, it would be a good thing. No doubt, honorable members know that the Registrar of the Commonwealth Arbitration Court deals with quite a lot of business which only needs to be placed before the judges of the court for ratification. If that custom could be introduced into our bankruptcy laws, it would be advantageous.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– Clause 18 provides that the jurisdiction in bankruptcy may be vested in such one or more judges of a state court as the Governor-General, with the concurrence of the Governor of the state, appoints for that purpose. In New South Wales, at present, a judge of the Supreme Court has jurisdiction in bankruptcy, but district court judges and certain magistrates also have certain bankruptcy jurisdiction. Nothing in clause 18 will prevent that practice from being continued. It is thought better to confine it to the judges of the different courts rather than take in outsiders and make additional judicial appointments. A great deal of the work will still be done in the same way as hitherto, and the commissioners and registrars will have certain judicial powers conferred on them; but so far as the jurisdiction of the courts is concerned, it is thought desirable that there should be uniformity throughout the Commonwealth, and that the jurisdiction should not be vested in a commissioner in one state and in a judge in another state. We have adopted the principle of vesting it in the judges, so that there may be uniformity throughout the states.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 5 agreed to.

Clause 6 -

This act shall not affect -

any provision in any State Bankruptcy or Insolvency Act relating to matters not dealt with in, or within the scope of, this act; or

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

.- I move -

That the words “ in, or within the scope of this act,” lines 4 and 5, be omitted with a view to inserting in lieu thereof the words “ either expressly or by necessary implication in.”

That would make the scope wider, so far as the federal act is concerned.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 7 to 10 agreed to.

Clause 11 -

There shall be an Inspector-General in Bankruptcy who shall perforin such duties as are prescribed.

Mr BRENNAN:
Batman

.- I am not satisfied of the necessity for this office. The clause is quite foreign to the operation of the state acts. The justification for it - so far as there is justification - is that this will be a Com- monwealth act, operated from a central department - the department of the Commonwealth Attorney-General. I point out that its being operated from that central department gives it a federal centre, and a federal home. The appointment of an inspector-general involves the appointment of other officers also, and the establishment of an inspector-general’s department. I cannot see that that is necessary. As we proceed with the bill, it will be seen that we have registrars in each of the states, and the honorable member for Boothby (Mr. Duncan-Hughes) has just pointed out that, in South Australia, we have a Commissioner of Insolvency. In all the states we have the necessary machinery for operating the act. The position of inspector-general is merely that of a picturesque figure-head. The nexus between the Commonwealth and the states is provided by the AttorneyGeneral in his official capacity. On the information at present available, I am opposed to the creation of this office.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– The InspectorGeneral in Bankruptcy will be responsible, under the Attorney-General, for the administration of the act, and for securing uniformity throughout the states. In view of the fact that this act will apply throughout the Commonwealth, and that in the several states differing systems are at present in operation, it is necessary that we should have one officer who shall be responsible, under the Commonwealth Attorney-General, for the proper administration of the act. It would be impossible for the Attorney-General to do the whole of this work. The officers of the department consider that proper and uniform administration can best be achieved along the lines suggested in this bill, and have suggested that this office should be created.

Mr WEST:
East Sydney

.- Sub-clauses 5, 6 and 7 of clause 12 read - (5.) The registrars and deputy registrars shall be officers of the court, and shall have such duties as the Attorney-General directs, or as are prescribed. (6.) The Attorney-General may by order direct that any specified deputy registrar shall have and exercise any or all of the powers and functions of a registrar. (7.) An official receiver shall act under the general authority and directions of the registrar, and shall also be an officer of the court.

That leaves nothing for the inspectorgeneral to do.

Mr Bowden:

– The Attorney-General is the nominal head, but he must have under him an officer to do the work.

Mr WEST:

– Why not let the registrars and deputy registrars do the work, and be responsible directly to the AttorneyGeneral ? There is no necessity for this office.

Mr FENTON:
Maribyrnong

.- I can see in this clause the possibility of another department being superimposed on the six departments now existing in the various states. I do not wish to overwork any member of the legal profession, but from time to time appointments have been made to tie Attorney-General’s department to assist the Attorney-General and the Solicitor-General with their work. If an inspector-general is appointed, he will gather round him a number of other officers, and soon we shall have another Commonwealth department. If uniformity is so desirable, it can best be obtained by giving to this Parliament those powers that it should possess. If this bill is passed, will it supersede all other bankruptcy laws throughout Australia, or will they be superseded only to the extent that they conflict with it? If we are to have both state and federal bankruptcy or insolvency laws, there will be seven such acts to be administered throughout the Commonwealth.

Mr Bowden:

– This act will practically supersede the acts of the states.

Mr FENTON:

– Does that mean that we shall practically take from the states all the work in connexion with insolvency and bankruptcy ? If not, it means that we shall have six states, as well as the Commonwealth, administering bankruptcy and insolvency laws. The Minister says that the appointment of an inspectorgeneral is necessary to bring about uniformity, but the result will be merely to add another department to the six already existing in the states.

Mr Bowden:

– The inspector-general will be an officer of the AttorneyGeneral’s department to deal specifically with bankruptcy matters.

Mr FENTON:

– I know what it means whena man is given a title. He generally finds it necessary to travel to the various states, and to have a staff to do his work while he is away. I can see no necessity for this clause, and should like to see a division taken regarding its inclusion in the bill. If uniformity is to be achieved, it cannot be brought about merely by the appointment of an officer, but the wording of the act should be such that the desired end will be achieved.

Mr Bowden:

– The inspector-general will be able to see that the administration is uniform.

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA · ALP; UAP from 1931

– Let us suppose that the inspector-general pays a visit to New South Wales, and that he says to the officers there, “For 40 years you have been doing this work in a certain way, but I now want you to do it differently.” Friction would be caused immediately. We have in the Attorney-General’s department to-day men who could carry out this work as well as an inspector-general would do it. I intend to vote against the inclusion of this clause.

Sitting suspended from 6.30 to 8 p.m.

Mr MAKIN:
Hindmarsh

.- The Government would be well advised to accept the suggestion of the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan), who is to be commended for drawing attention to the fact that an inspector-general is unnecessary. Whatever duties it is proposed to allot to the inspector-general could, and should, be performed by the AttorneyGeneral. The clause gives no idea as to the nature of these duties. Honorable members do not know whether the officer is to be located in the Attorney-General’s Department, or whether he will visit the various states in a supervisory capacity. In any case, it means the creation of another unnecessary office carrying a high salary.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

. - It is not proposed to abolish the six separate organizations in the various states and to set up a central department in their place, but it is necessary to have an officer charged with the duties of co-ordinating the work of. the several state establishments., The inspectorgeneral will be an officer attached to the Attorney-General’s Department, and his salary will be fixed by the Public Service Board. Just as the Comptroller-General of Customs supervises the work of the Deputy ComptrollersGeneral in the various states, so the inspector-general of insolvency will co-ordinate the work of the various state bankruptcy offices, and see that the law operates harmoniously in the several states ?

Mr Makin:

– What would be the salary of such an officer?

Mr BOWDEN:

– I am unable to say at the moment. The salary will be determined by the Public Service Board.

Mr Makin:

– Could not the SolicitorGeneral undertake the work?

Mr BOWDEN:

– No; that officer has too much to do already.

Mr BRENNAN:
Batman

.- It cannot be rightly urged against the Labour party, or any member of it, that, up to the present time at all events, one word has been uttered that can be regarded as mere obstruction to the passage of the bill, but there are serious objections to the appointment of the officer mentioned in this clause. The administration of the bankruptcy laws throughout Australia is a going concern. The courts are working according to the laws of the various states, and on the whole they are operating fairly satisfactorily, except for difficulties and differences of the kind mentioned this afternoon by the honorable member for Bendigo (Mr. Hurry). These anomalies are quite sufficient to warrant a Commonwealth bankruptcy law, but it is not intended that the bill should create a revolution in the working of the existing statutes. When this bill has been passed, the state courts will continue on much the same lines as have been adopted in the past.

Mr Bowden:

– Should the procedure vary in the different states?

Mr BRENNAN:

– The courts in the various states will adhere to the existing procedure, as far as it is not inconsistent with this measure. That is my answer to the contention of the Minister that the appointment of an inspectorgeneral is necessary to create some kind of artificial harmony amongst the states. There will be no lack of harmony, although there may well be a difference in procedure. The less this bill interferes with existing machinery, the more efficacious it will be.

Mr Lazzarini:

– The appointment of an inspector-general will not alter the existing procedure?

Mr BRENNAN:

– No. From his high-sounding title, I take it that he will receive a considerable salary, but I have never known an appointment of this kind to be authorized without the duties being set out in a general way. All we know about the duties of this officer is contained in the one and a half lines of the clause under consideration, which states that his duties are to be “ as are prescribed.” In all the states there are registrars of insolvency, and provision is made for the appointment of trustees and official receivers. Generally there is provision for all the local requirements in connexion with insolvency matters, and I see no necessity to make a special appointment of an inspector-general to supervise the operation of the insolvency law. I am afraid that this officer will be a source, not of harmony, but of discord. Furthermore, there is a fundamental objection to the appointment of a person who will receive a high salary, and gradually gather about him a staff of officials which from no point of view is necessary. The honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Fenton) expressed some anxiety on this account. There will be good grounds for the honorable member’s apprehension if we set out by providing for the appointment of such an officer as the proposed inspector-general. I appeal to the committee not to entertain the proposal for a moment, unless the duties of the inspectorgeneral are set out in the bill. Can honorable members point to any act in which provision is made for the appointment of a highly-paid officer that does not, at least in general terms, set out the duties he is to perform ? I suggest that the reason why the duties of this officer are not set out in this bill is that the Government does not know what they will be. There, no doubt, is a confident belief that if such an officer is appointed he will create duties for himself, and will recommend the appointment of a staff. In my view, such an officer would merely interfere with the proper operation of the measure. I can imagine none but a sentimental reason for the proposed appointment. We have certainly heard no reason from the Minister for Defence. To say, as the honorable gentleman has done, that the appointment is necessary to harmonize the procedure under the act in the different states, is an absurdity.

Mr Mann:

– What about proceedings taken beyond the boundaries of a state?

Mr BRENNAN:

– The bill provides that it is to be administered through districts proclaimed, without regard to state boundaries. I should like to see the bill passed into law; but I do not wish to see its successful operation endangered by the appointment of an unnecessary and, perhaps, an interfering official. The less interference there is with the present operation of the bankruptcy laws in Australia the better. Should there be occasion to invoke the aid of a superior federal tribunal, the proper tribunal to refer to is the AttorneyGeneral, and- the staff of the Federal Crown Law Offices. The AttorneyGeneral’s Department possesses ample machinery to deal with such a matter.

Mr West:

– Would not the inspectorgeneral override the Solicitor-General?

Mr BRENNAN:

– I do not suppose he would; but no one can say what he might or might not do. I am opposed to the appointment of an official of this kind, whose duties are not defined, and the value of whose services has not been made clear to the satisfaction of any reasonable person.

Mr LAZZARINI:
Werriwa

.- I trust that the Minister will give some better explanation for the proposed appointment of an inspector-general under this bill than he has so far given. The honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan) has pointed out that the duties of the proposed ^official are not defined in the bill. It appears to me that two-thirds of the time of the present Government is spent in trying to find jobs for its friends. In this bill we have another highly-paid office created for some one who wants a job, or must be placated. In consenting to the appointment of useless officials, honorable members forget that their greatest trust is the proper control of the finances of the Commonwealth. The honorable member for Batman has pointed out that other measures providing for similar appointments Bet out, at least in outline, the duties of the officers appointed under them. I say, further, that in measures creating positions of this kind, it is usual also for the’ salary of the proposed officer to be stated.

Mr Bowden:

– The ComptrollerGeneral of Customs was appointed in exactly the same way.

Mr LAZZARINI:

– Then a similar mistake was made in providing for his appointment, but the Minister will not contend that the position of the proposed inspector-general under this bill will be analogous to that of the ComptrollerGeneral of Customs. I have no wish to prevent the speedy passage of this bill, but I am not prepared to vote to create this office until I am shown that there is a necessity for it. The honorable member for Batman has shown that it is unnecessary, and his contention has not been replied to. If honorable members agree to the proposed appointment their action will be quoted as a precedent for providing for a similar appointment in some other bill. I hope the committee will negative the clause.

Mr WEST:
East Sydney

.- I maintain that this clause proposes the creation of a new department. An inspectorgeneral of police has absolute control of the force, and is in charge of a department. An inspector-general of lunacy is also in charge of a department and has a staff of officials under his control. All these inspectors-general are practically in charge of departments. I am always anxious to prevent the creation of new departments. I have confidence that those in charge of the Crown Law Offices of the Commonwealth will be able to administer this measure, and there is no necessity for the appointment of a highly-paid official who will soon surround himself with a departmental staff. We often see complaints in the press concerning the enormous Public Service of the Commonwealth in view of the comparatively small population of Australia, and there is much justification for those complaints. We have no evidence that the proposed inspector-general will have any duties whatever to perform. I can quite understand that the Government has not given this bill the critical consideration which it’ is the duty of the Opposition to give it, and has perhaps overlooked this provision for the appointment of a superfluous officer. The bill would be better without it, and I trust that the Minister will see the wisdom of permitting the clause to be negatived.

Mr SCULLIN:
Yarra

.- I think the Minister in charge of the bill would be well advised to postpone this clause until he is able to tell the committee what will be the duties of theinspectorgeneral. I listened to the AttorneyGeneral (Sir Littleton Groom) when, some weeks ago, he moved the second reading of this bill, and I listened this afternoon to the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan) . I have been under the impression, from what they have said, that the object of the measure is to co-ordinate existing bankruptcy laws, and not to set up new machinery for their administration. If the intention is to create new machinery, other offices besides that of an inspector-general will have to be provided for. It is extraordinary that provision should be made for the appointment of an inspectorgeneral without one. word in the bill to say what are to be his duties. The Minister said that the same practice was followed in the appointment of the ComptrollerGeneral of Customs.

Mr Bowden:

– I said that the salary was not stated in the case of the ComptrollerGeneral of Customs.

Mr SCULLIN:

– The salary, after all, is a comparatively minor question, although it is important. Surely’ before the committee is asked to sanction the appointment of an officer it should be told what his duties will be. The duties of the ComptrollerGeneral of Customs are set out in several clauses of the Customs Act. Will the proposed inspector-general, have powers of delegation ? Will he be subject entirely to the Attorney-General? For how long will he be appointed? What will be his salary ? No information on these points is given for the guidance of the committee. Honorable members are asked to shut their eyes, open their mouths, and see what the Lord will send them. The Minister, by refusing to give the required information, is forcing members of the Opposition to vote against the clause. We have not shown any disposition to impede the progress of the bill. For seventeen years it has been pursuing the long trail, and if we can expedite its passage we shall be pleased to do so. I am satisfied that it is a necessary bill, but I cannot see the need for the proposed appointment. When co-ordinating the laws of the Commonwealth it seems to be a habit of the Government to create new offices. That is a wrong practice, unless the necessity for the appointments can be shown. I suggest that the clause be postponed until further information is available.

Mr HURRY:
Bendigo

– I was in doubt about this clause until I heard the honorable member for _ East

Sydney (Mr. West), and he has converted me to the view that it is absolutely necessary. Clause 12 provides that the GovernorGeneral may proclaim districts, in each of which will be a registrar. Clause 24 sets out the duties of the registrars. It does not make much difference what we call this new officer. If we call him a, “chief registrar” the difficulty disappears. He will really perform the duties of a chief registrar. Some one will have to co-ordinate the duties of the district registrars, and it does not matter whether we call him an inspector-general or a chief registrar.

Mr FENTON:
Maribyrnong

.- If the bill becomes the bankruptcy law of Australia and supersedes the state acts, regulations must be issued. Every registrar, receiver, and official employed in connexion with insolvency and bankruptcy must conform to those regulations. Is it to be assumed that the registrars, deputy registrars, and other officers in bankruptcy will not be able to understand and obey the regulations? What necessity is there for appointing a man to meander all over Australia, unless it is to create a certain amount of irritation ? The Solicitor-General, or an officer appointed by him, could meet the state officers in conference, and thus obviate the need for the proposed appointment. To superimpose upon the machinery of administration a highly-paid officer is absurd, and there is a great danger that he will collect round him a staff of subordinate officers. His appointment will be practically a charter to form a new department. Unless the states have been employing a large number of inefficient officers, the proposed new regulations will be interpreted and enforced without difficulty. The chief officer of the insolvency and county courts exercising bankruptcy jurisdiction in Victoria is the chief clerk, who is appointed by the Governor in Council. The position is analogous to that of registrar in bankruptcy in England or New South Wales. Even in Great Britain, where there is a population of 45,000,000, there is not an inspector-general to instruct the registrars.

Question - That the clause be agreed to - put. The committee divided.

AYES: 26

NOES: 21

Majority … … 5

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 12- (4.) Where an official receiver is remunerated by fees and commission only -

  1. a) if, in respect of any estate, no trustee is appointed, he shall receive such commission, not exceeding the highest commission which under the provisions of this Act could have been paid to a trustee of the estate, as the Court directs: and
  2. if, in respect of any estate, a trustee is appointed, such fees as are prescribed, and such commission as the Court directs, but so that the total commission payable in respect of the estate shall not exceed the highest commission which, under the provisions of this Act could have been paid to a trustee of the estate. (8.) The Registrar shall distribute the receiverships of the particular estates among the official receivers in the prescribed manner.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That paragraphs (a) and (b) be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the following paragraphs: -

If, in respect of any estate, the official receiver is appointed trustee, or no trustee is appointed, he shall receive commission as trustee of the estate; and

if, in respect of any estate, a person other than the official receiver is appointed trustee, the official receiver shall receive such fees as are prescribed, and such commission as the Court directs.

That the word “ Registrar “ in sub-clause 8 be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “ Court “.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 13 and 14 agreed to.

Clause 15 -

As regards the debtor, it shall be the duty of the official receiver -

to investigate - and report to the Court within 30 days alter the presentation of the bankruptcy petition, the result of the investigations……

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That after the word “ petition.” in paragraph (a) the words “ or within such further time as is prescribed” be inserted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 16 and 17 agreed to.

Clause18- (2.) The jurisdiction in bankruptcy of a State Court or Court of a Territory may be exercised -

In the case of the Court of a Territory by such one or more Judges of the Court as the Governor-General appoints for that purpose.

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) proposed -

That the words “ the Court “ in paragraph

Mr DUNCAN-HUGHES:
Boothby

– In speaking earlier in committee on the definition clause, I asked whether under this clause it would be possible for any one but a judge to act. It has since been suggested to me that the first portion of the clause is mandatory and the second portion only permissive, and, therefore,while the Governor-

General may by proclamation authorize such state courts as are designed to exercise jurisdiction, under the second portion of the clause the appointment of a judge is merely permissive. The GovernorGeneral may not necessarily direct that a judge of the state court shall officiate. In other words, while the Governor-General may appoint a judge of the Supreme Court, he may not do so, and in such case the official who administers this work will still continue to do so. I should like to have an assurance from the Minister as to whether the position is as I have indicated, and whether the clause does not necessarily prevent the present commissioner in South Australia from carrying out his duties in that state.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– In South Australia the court is constituted a commissioner, and that court will still continue notwithstanding the provisions of this measure.

Mr Mann:

– There must be a proclamation under this provision.

Mr BOWDEN:

– Wecan carry on with the Insolvency Court.

Mr Mann:

– Not without a proclamation under 18 b.

Mr BOWDEN:

– That is so. The Commissioner will still be eligible. I have made inqiiiries as to whether the Commissioner could be appointed, and I find that he could, and that we propose to appoint him. The question as to whether one of the judges of the Supreme Court of South Australia will be appointed will rest to a great extent with the state authorities. The provision is not mandatory, and we may appoint with their consent.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 19 -

Subject to section six of this Act, all bankruptcy matters pending in any State Court or Court of a Territory exercising bankruptcy jurisdiction at the commencement of this Act may-

in the case of a State Court be transacted and disposed of by or under the direction of such one or more Judges of the Court as the GovernorGeneralwith the concurrence of the Governor of the State appoints for that purpose; and

in the case of the Court of a Territory such one or more Judges of the Court as the Governor-General appoints for that purpose.

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That all the words after “Act,” second occurring, be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “ may be transacted and disposed of by or under the direction of -

the Judge or Judges of the Court; or

in the case of a State Court, such one or more Judges of the Court as the Governor-General with the concurrence of the Governor of the State appoints for that purpose; or

in the case of a Court of a Territory, such one or more Judges of the Court as the Governor-General appoints for that purpose.”

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 20 to 21 agreed to.

Clause 22 and 23 verbally amended and agreed to.

Clause 24 - (1.) Subject to rules, a Registrar shall have, in addition to the powers which may be delegated to him by the Court under the provisions of this Act, the following powers, duties, and jurisdiction of a Court, namely -

  1. To approve compositions or schemes of arrangement when they are not opposed and to appoint a day to consider any composition or scheme of arrangement under Part XI. of this act;
  2. To appoint a meeting to inquire into the validity of a deed of assignment under Part XI. ofthis act; to inquire whether the deed complies with the provisions of that Part; and to grant a certificate of validity of the deed;
  3. To order to attend before him and examine the bankrupt or his wife, or, where the bankrupt is a married woman, her husband, or any person known or suspected to have in his possession property of the bankrupt or to be indebted to him, or to be capable of giving information respecting the bankrupt, his trade dealings, property or affairs, and otherwise to exercise the powers of the court contained in section eighty of this act, and to exercise the power of committal and discharge contained in that section ;
  4. To make orders with respect to the costs of a creditor proving his debt;
  5. To expunge a proof or reduce its amount;
  6. To make interim orders in any case of urgency, and to hear and determine any unopposed or ex parte application;
  7. To make any order or exercise any jurisdiction which may be made or exercised in chambers; and

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the letter “a “ before “ court,” line 5, be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “the.”

That all the words after “ opposed “ in paragraph (c) be omitted.

That paragraph (d) be omitted.

That all the words after “affairs” in paragraph (e) be omitted.

That paragraph (n) be omitted.

That paragraphs p, q, and r be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the following paragraph : -

To exercise thepowers of the court under section sixty- two of this act; and

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 25 to 46 agreed to.

Clause 47 -

Subject to rules, any affidavit to be used iu any proceedings under this act may -

In the case of a person out of the Commonwealth - be sworn before -

A commissioner of the Supreme Court of a state for taking affidavits empowered and authorized to act in that place.

A British ambassador.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That before the words “ A commissioner “, in paragraph (i), the words “a person authorized under the ‘law of the Commonwealth to take affidavits or “ be inserted.

That before the words “ A British “ in paragraph (ii) the words “a High CommisisoneT of the Commonwealth “ be inserted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 48 to 51 agreed to.

Clause 52-

A debtor commits an act of bankruptcy in each of the following cases: -

If in Australia or elsewhere he makes any conveyance or transfer of his property or any part thereof or creates any charge thereon which would under this or any other act be void as a fraudulent preference if he became bankrupt.

If at any meeting of creditors he admits that he is in insolvent circumstances and is requested by a resolution of a majority of the creditors present at the meeting to surrender his estate for administration in accordance with this act and he refuses to so surrender’ his estate.

Ifhe gives notice to any of his creditors that he has suspended, or that he is about to suspend payment of his debts, or if at a convened meeting of his creditors he admits that he is unable to pay his debts.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That after the word “as” in paragraph (c) the words “ a preference or “ be inserted.

That the words “to so” in paragraph (h) be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “so to”.

That all the words after “debts”, paragraph (7c), be omitted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 53 to 65 agreed to.

Clause 66 verbally amended and agreed to.

Clause 67 agreed to.

Clauses 68, 69 and 70 verbally amended and agreed to.

Clauses 71 to 75 agreed to.

Clause 76 - (1.) Every bankrupt shall, unless . prevented by sickness or other sufficient cause -

  1. attend the first meeting of his creditors, and submit to such examination and give such information as the meeting requires;
  2. give such inventory of his property, such list of his creditors and debtors, and of the debts due to and from them respectively, submit to such examinations in respect of his property or his creditors.
Mr CORSER:
Wide Bay

.- I move -

That after the word “examinations” in paragraph (c) the following words be inserted : - “ upon oath or otherwise by the trustee, or otherwise under this act.”

The purpose of the amendment is to insert the Queensland provision for examination cf the bankrupt on oath by the trustee. In a large state it is often difficult and costly to have a bankrupt examined by the court.

Mr Bowden:

– I cannot accept the amendment. It is most undesirable to allow the trustee to examine the bankrupt on oath, without supervision.

Amendment negatived.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 77 verbally amended and agreed to.

Clause 78 agreed to.

Clauses 79 and 80 verbally amended and agreed to.

Clauses 81 to 83 agreed to.

Clause 84 - (1.) Subject to She next succeeding subsection, sections 93, 112 and 122 of this act the trustees shall apply the estate of the bankrupt in the following order of priority : -

  1. fifthly, in payment of all wages or salaries of any clerk, servant, labourer, or workman (not being the ‘wife, husband, child, parent, brother, or sister of the bankrupt) not exceeding £50, whether payable per time or piece-work, in respect of services rendered to the bankrupt within four months before the date of the sequestration order..
  2. Eighthly, in payment of….. goods supplied to him under any act …. for the improvement, development, or settlement of land (5.) Where a debt has been proved which includes interest, or any pecuniary consideration in lieu of interest, or any claim founded on a claim for interest, the interest consideration or claim shall, for the purposes of dividend, be calculated at a rate not exceeding £8 per centum per annum, without prejudice to the right of a creditor to receive out of the estate any higher rate of interest to which he may be entitled after all the debts proved in the estate have been paid in full.
Mr BRENNAN:
Batman

.- I move -

That the words “ not exceeding £60 “, in paragraph (e), be omitted.

If that amendment is agreed to, I shall then propose that the time limitation also be struck out. The claim of a working man on what is known as “ the bread line “ to have priority for his wages in the application of the estate of a bankrupt is unanswerable, and there should be no limitation as to time or amount. There are many circumstances in which a workman may be prevailed upon, in the interests of an undertaking, to work either for no wages or for a reduced wage. If the employer becomes bankrupt, men dependent upon their wages for their means of living should be considered without regard to either the amount or the time during which the wages were due to them.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– I am afraid the amendment would defeat what the honorable member desires to accomplish. The limitation of £50, and of the period to four months, is more likely to safeguard the interest of the wage-earner than the amendment. If there is no limitation either as to the amount or the time, men on a salary, and above what is generally regarded as the bread line, may draw hundreds of pounds owing to them and share equally with wage-earners drawing lesser amounts. The limitation has been inserted to ensure that the working man,, as we know him, shall get what is due to him.

Mr West:

-*-Is this limitation included in any existing state law ?

Mr BOWDEN:

– The provision has been taken from the New South Wales act, and I understand it is also included in the Victorian legislation.

Amendment negatived.

Mr MACKAY:
Lilley

– I move -

That after paragraph («) the following paragraph be inserted : - (ec) Sixthly, in payment of amounts owing by the bankrupt to any agent on account of any payment (other than the payment of the purchase moneys for the goods) made by the agent on behalf of the bankrupt whereby goods are made available as assets in the estate of the bankrupt.

The bill makes provision for preference in respect of wages, of rates levied by local governing authorities, and also of rent. The agent, in my opinion, should also be considered. Let us consider the case of a country storekeeper who instructs his agent to take delivery of goods from an incoming vessel. The agent may be called upon to pay duty, freight, and landing charges. In due time the goods may be received by the storekeeper and taken into stock, but owing to financial stress the storekeeper may be declared insolvent. Under the law as it stands at present the agent ranks as an ordinary creditor. If the goods had remained on the wharf the official trustee would certainly have been obliged to pay out of the estate all the charges that were met by the agent. I agree that amounts owing as wages are rightly included as a preference claim, and, to a lesser extent, rent also. I contend that the cash outlay of an agent should take preference over rates levied by a local governing authority. An agent is not in quite the same position as an ordinary business man supplying goods upon which he expects to make a profit. It is quite true that he receives a commission for the performance of certain duties, but frequently his work involves him in payment of cash out of pocket, for which he is legitimately entitled to preference. I submit this amendment on behalf of the Master Carriers Federal Council of Australia, which recently assembled in conference at Brisbane.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– I am afraid I cannot accept the amendment, as it would widen the scope of the bill too much. » An agent takes the ordinary business, trade risks, and should rank with other creditors. There is no reason why an agent should be secured in his out-of-pocket expenses any more than the man who supplies goods, or the solicitor who pays fees on a legal document.

Amendment negatived.

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to -

That after the word “ land “, paragraph (fe), the words “ , or the aid, development, or encouragement of mining,” be inserted.

Mr BRENNAN:
Batman

.- I move-

That the word “ eight sub-clause (5), be left out with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “ six “.

This sub-clause provides that where a debt has been proved and where any claim is made for interest, the interest consideration shall be calculated at the rate of 8 per cent, per annum, without prejudice to the right of a creditor to receive out of the estate any higher rate of interest to which he may be entitled after all the debts proved in the estate have been paid in full. The interest provision is, in my opinion, a very liberal one. Most creditors would be delighted to receive payment of the amount owing without interest. When this clause was before the committee of another place an honorable senator sought to reduce the rate of interest to 6 per cent., but the Government resisted the amount. The creditor is very often a money lender. Most creditors would consider themselves extremely fortunate if they could recover the whole amount of debt with interest at the rate of 6 per cent.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– The limitation on the rate has been inserted to prevent excessive claims on account of interest. In some instances the claim has been as high as 100 per cent. The recognized rate now is 8 per cent. The Government is paying 6 per cent, for its money, and the banks usually get 8 per cent, for overdrafts. In the circumstances the amount provided in the clause may be considered reasonable.

Question - That the amendment be agreed to - put. The committee divided.

AYES: 21

NOES: 29

Majority . . . . 8

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Amendment negatived.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 85 to 90 agreed to.

Clause 91 -

The property of the bankrupt divisible amongst his creditors …. shall not include

policies of life assurance or endow ment, which have endured for at least two years, and the contributions made towards the policies, to the extent of Two thousand pounds in the aggregate of insurance or endowment;

the tools implements and instruments of trade of the bankrupt not exceeding in the whole Twenty pounds in value, and the necessary wearing apparel,beds, bedsteads, and bedding of himself, his wife, and children, and any sewing machine used for domestic purposes by the bankrupt or his wife or children, and such other household property as the creditors by resolution determine;

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That paragraph (b) be left out, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the following paragraph : -

policies of life assurance or endowment except to the extent of a charge on the policies in respect of the amount of the premiums paid on the policies during the two years next preceding the date of the order of sequestration;

Amendment (by Mr. Brennan) agreed to-

That the words “ Twenty pounds “, paragraph (d), be left out, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “ Fifty pounds “.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 92 agreed to.

Clause 93 - (1.) Where any goods of a debtor are taken in execution, and before their sale, or the completion of the execution by the receipt or recovery of the full amount of the levy, notice is served on the sherriff that a sequestration order has been made against the debtor, the sheriff shall, on request in writing, deliver the goods and any money seized or received in part satisfaction of the execution to the trustee, but the costs of the execution up to the date of the service of the notice, and the taxed costs incurred by any creditor in the action or proceeding under which the execution issued, or such costs as are fixed or allowed by the Court (not exceeding Fifty pounds), shall be a first charge on the goods or money so delivered, and the trustee may sell the goods, or an adequate part thereof, for the purpose of satisfying the charge…..

Provided that the taxed costs incurred by any creditor in the action, ot other proceeding under which the execution issued, or such costs as are fixed or allowed by the Court (not exceeding Fifty pounds) shall be a first charge on the balance paid to the trustee.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to -

That after the word “ Court,” sub-clause 1, the words “ before which the action or proceeding was tried or heard” be inserted.

That before the word “taxed,” line 1 of proviso, the words “ costs of the execution up to the date of the service of the notice, and the,” be inserted.

That the words “ or other,” line 2 of proviso, be left out, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “ or “.

That after the word “ Court,” line 4 of proviso, the words “ before which the action or proceeding was tried or heard “ he inserted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 94 agreed to.

Clause 95 - (2.) Nothing in this section shall affect -

the rights of any person making title in good faith and for valuable consideration through or under a creditor of the bankrupt; or the rights of a purchaser, payee, or encumbrancer in good faith and for valuable consideration and in the ordinary course of business. . . .

Amendment (by Mr. Corser) proposed -

That the words “ this section “, line 1, sub- clause 2, be left out, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “ the last preceding sub-section “.

Amendment negatived.

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the following sub-clause be added: - (4.) For the purposes of thissection, a creditor shall not be deemed to be a purchaser, payee, or encumbrancer in good faith if the conveyance, transfer, charge, payment, or obligation wore made or incurred under such circumstances as to lead to the inference that the creditor knew or had reason to suspect that the debtor was unable to pay his debts as they became due, and that the effect of the conveyance, transfer, charge, payment, or obligation would be to give him a preference over the other creditors.

Mr CORSER:
Wide Bay

– I move -

That the following sub-clauses be added: - (4.) Every conveyance or transfer of property, or charge thereon made by any person unable to pay his debts as they become due from his own moneys in favour of any creditor or any person (in trust for any creditor, not being for a reasonable and sufficient consideration given at the time of making the conveyance, transfer, or charge, shall, if the debtor becomes bankrupt on a bankruptcypetition presented within six months thereafter,be deemed a fraudulent preference, and shall be void as against the trustee in bankruptcy, and shall not be available to the creditor as against the trustee, and the property conveyed, transferred, or charged, or the full value thereof, shall be recoverable by the trustee from the creditor, or any person who holds the property in trust for the creditor, or any person to whom the creditor or person holding the property in trust has convoyed, transferred, delivered or mortgaged the property, if that person had at the time of the conveyance, transfer, delivery or mortgage notice of the fraudulent preference. (5.) Every conveyance or transfer of property, or charge thereon made by any person unable to pay his debts as they become due from his own moneys, and the effect whereof is to defeat or delay his creditors, or to diminish the property to bedivided amongst his creditors, shall, if a bankruptcy petition is presented against.the debtor within six months thereafter, be deemed fraudulent and void as against the petitioning creditor, and, if a sequestration order is made on the petition, shall also be deemed fraudulent and void as against the trustee in the insolvency, unless in either case it is proved that the conveyance, transfer, or charge was made in good faith, proof whereof shall be upon the party alleging the validity of the transaction:

Provided that pressure by a creditor shall notbe sufficient to protect any such transaction, nor shall any such transaction acquire any validity by reason only that it was made or done in pursuance of an antecedent agreement.

We should safeguard the interests of the creditors if anybody other than a creditor receives preference. Under sections 108 and 109 of the Queensland act, if a person other than a creditor receives preference, action can be taken to compel him to divulge the whole of his transactions with the insolvent, and property which he has received can be recovered for the benefit of the creditors. In Warwick, a trustee was able, by means of this provision, to recover £4,000; and in Gympie, another trustee secured for the creditors an additional £2,000.

Mr D CAMERON:
BRISBANE. QLD · NAT

.- I support the amendment. The Queensland Chambers of Commerce, representing the commercial community, are very anxious that the provisions of sections 10S and 109 of the Queensland act shall be included in this bill. It is contended that clause 95 of the bill is insufficient, as it does not include the provisions contained in section 108 of the Queensland act, for attacking any transaction that is not made for a reasonable and sufficient consideration given at the time ; nor does it include the provision contained in section 109 of the Queensland act, which makes voidable any action that diminishes the property to be divided amongst the creditors. It appears to the Queensland Chambers of Commerce that clause 95 is meant to apply only to creditors, and that any person other than a creditor cannot be attacked for taking part in a fraudulent transaction. I hope that the Minister will accept the amendment.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– I cannot accept the amendment. The vital words in the Queensland section that we have not adopted are “ diminish the property to be divided amongst the creditors.” I think they have too wide an application. Any conveyance or transfer of property to any person within six months ofthe date of the bankruptcy, which would have the effect of diminishing the amount of money to be divided among the creditors, may, under the Queensland provision, be rendered void. There was a case in Queensland which turned upon those words. A property was sold for £1,500, but somebody valued it at £1,650, and the transfer was declared void because the amount of property which went to the creditors had thus been “ diminished.” I can quite understand a man who is in urgent need of cash offering to accept £1,200 for a property upon which he places a value of £1,500. If he becomes insolvent within six months of that transaction, it can be rendered void under the Queensland provision unless the purchaser could prove the bona fides of the transaction.

Mr Corser:

– That would be a very exceptional case.

Mr BOWDEN:

– The wording of the Queensland act makes that possible ; it is too wide. Everything is covered that needs to be covered. If persons who are not creditors engage in a fraudulent transaction, they will be covered by the clause that enables the bankruptcy to be related back.

Mr BRENNAN:
Batman

.- I went into this matter very closely with the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Forde). He is interested in it because representations have been made to him by residents of Brisbane. He agreed with me that the object sought to be achieved is amply provided for by the provisions of the bill. Whilst I appreciate the object of the honorable member for Wide Bay (Mr. Corser), and the honorable member for Brisbane (Mr. D. Cameron), I think that a reconsideration of the terms of the bill as drafted will convince them that their objections have no substance.

Amendment negatived.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 96 agreed to.

Clause 97 verbally amended and agreed to.

Clause 98- (1.) All transactions by a bankrupt with any person dealing with him bona fide and for value, in respect of property, whether real or personal, acquired by the bankrupt after the sequestration, shall, if completed before any intervention by the trustee, be valid against the trustee, and any estate or interest in such property which by virtue of this Act is vested in the trustee shall determine and pass in such manner and to such extent as is required for giving effect to any such transaction.

For the purposes of this sub-section, the receipt of any money, security, or negotiable instrument from, or by the order or direction of, a bankrupt by his banker, and any payment and any delivery of any security or negotiable instrument made to, or by the order or direction of, a bankrupt by his banker, shall be deemed to bea transaction by the bankrupt with such banker dealing with him for value. (2.) After the expiration of twenty years after the date of the sequestration of the estate of a bankrupt, no claim shall be made by the trustee of the estate, to any estate or interest in any land belonging to the bankrupt, and that estate or interest shall, subject to the rights (if any) of any person in possession of the land, be deemed to be vested in the bankrupt or any person claiming through or under him, as the case may be.

  1. Where a banker has ascertained that a person having an account with him is an undischarged bankrupt, then, unless the banker is satisfied that the account is on behalf of some other person, it shall be his duty forthwith to inform the trustee in the bankruptcy or the Attorney-General ofthe existence of the account, and thereafter he shall not make any payments out of the account, except under an order of the court or in accordance with instructions from the trustee, unless by the expiration of one month from the dateof giving the information no instructions have been received from the trustee or the AttorneyGeneral.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to -

That the following sub-clause be inserted after sub-clause (1) : - “ (1a.) The lodging by the trustee of a caveat against the title of the bankrupt to deal with any estate or interest in land shall be deemed to be a sufficient intervention within the meaning of the last preceding sub-section.”.

That the words “ belonging to “ in subclause (2) be omitted, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “ which is part of the property of “.

Thatthe following sub-clauses be inserted after sub-clause (2) : - “ (2a.) Where a doubt arises as to the identity of any person appearing in the title to any property with any bankrupt, any intending or actual vendor, mortgagor or lessor of the property or applicant to bring land under the provisions of any Act or State Act relating to title to land, or any resuming or constructing authority under any Act or State Act may gave, to the official receiver or trustee of the estate of the bankrupt as to whose identity the doubt arises, a notice, accompanied by the prescribed fee, containing particulars of the property in questionand of the person whose identity is in doubt, and a statement of bis intention to sell, mortgage or lease, or complete the sale, mortgage or lease, of the property or to bring the property under the provisions of any Act or State Act relating to title to land, or to pay compensation in respect of the resumption of the property. “ (2b.) The “official receiver or trustee may, within such time after the date of the notice as is prescribed, file with the Registrar of Titles or Registrar-General or other proper officer of the Commonwealth or the State in which the property is situated, a memorandum in the prescribed form claiming the property in respect of which the notice was given. “ (2c.) If the official receiver or trustee does not within the prescribed time file, in accordance with the last preceding subsection, a memorandum claiming the property in respect of which the notice was given, he shall not be entitled at any future time to assert his title thereto or make any claim in respect thereof as against the vendor, mortgagor, lessor, applicant or the resuming or constructing authority, or as against any person claiming under or through the vendor, mortgagor, lessor or applicant. “ (2d.) The official receiver or trustee may file with the Registrar of Titles or Registrar-General or other proper officer of the Commonwealth or the State in which the property is situated, a notice, in the prescribed form, of withdrawal of any such memorandum.”

That in sub-clause (3) all the words after the word “ information “ be omitted, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “no order has been made by the court and no instructions have been received from the trustee”.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 99 - (3.) No person shall be entitled as against the trustee to withhold possession of the books of account or any papers or documents relating to the accounts or to any trade dealings of the bankrupt or to claim any lien thereon. (4.) Where any part of the property of the bankrupt consists of stock, shares, shares in ships, or. any other property transferable in the books of any company, office, or person, the trustee may exercise the right to transfer the property to the same extent as the bankrupt might have exercised it if he had not become bankrupt.

Mr CORSER:
Wide Bay

.- 1 move -

That the following proviso be added to subclause 3: - “Provided that a person who has purchased from the trustee the book debts due or growing due to the bankrupt shall be entitled to the books of account relating to those debts.

Some provision should be made to protect the purchaser of book debts.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– The question whether the books shall be handedover must be a matter of contract between the pur chaser of the book debts and the trustee. In some instances it may not be possible to hand over to the purchaser the books of account. This provision appears in identical terms in the Queensland act, and has operated in that state for 45 years.

Amendment negatived.

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to -

That sub-clause 4be omitted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 100 - (3.) Any person who -

  1. knowing that property is liable to seizure as aforesaid does any act to ‘ hinder or . prevent the seizure of that property; or
  2. knowing that property has been so seized, disposes or, removes, retains, conceals or receives it with intent to defeat the seizure, shall be guilty of an indictable offence.

Penalty: Imprisonment for three years.

Mr BRENNAN:
Batman

.- Surely a most vindictive penalty is proposed to be inflicted ! The clause provides that if any person, knowing that any property is liable to seizure does any act to hinder the seizure of that property he shall be guilty of an indictable offence and be subject to a penalty of imprisonment for three years. I suggest that it would not be a case of making the punishment fit the crime. A great many persons in the community are liable to a fine of £10 or £20 and imprisonment for one month, with the option of a further monetary penalty, for offences which . 1 consider are graver than would be that of an unfortunate bankrupt who failed to deliver up certain of his property. I admit that it is an offence, and that itshould be punished. I move -

That the words “ three years “ be omitted, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “one year.”

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 101 and 102 agreed to.

Clause 103 (Vesting and transfer of property).

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to -

That the following new sub-clause be added : - “ (4.) Notwithstanding anything contained in this act, where any act or state act requires the transmission of property to be registered, and makes provision for the registration of the official receiver or trustee as the owner of property vested in him under this act, the vesting of the property of the bankrupt in the official receiver or trustee upon sequestration shall be subject to compliance with the requirements of the act or state act.”

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 104 and 105 agreed to.

Clause 106- (1.) If a bankrupt has conveyed or assigned any property or deposited any deeds, the conveyance, assignment, assurance or deposit being upon condition or power of redemption at a future clay by payment of money or otherwise, the trustee may, before the time of the performance of the condition, make tender or payment of money or other performance according to the condition, and, after the tender, payment or performance, the property may be sold and disposed of for the benefit of the creditors. (2.) Any mortgagee, with the leave of the court, may bid at any such sale of the mortgaged property.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That after the word “ conveyed “, line 1, the word “transferred” be inserted;

That after the word “ conveyance “, line 3, the word “ transfer “ be inserted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 107 to 118 agreed to.

Clause 119- (1.) A bankrupt may, at any time after he has been publicly examined, or at such time as is prescribed, and shall, whenever ordered bo to do by the court- on the application of the official receiver or the trustee or in pursuance of this act, apply to the court for an order of discharge releasing him from his debts. (5.) . . . . (b) may either grant or refuse an absolute order of discharge, or may suspend the operation of the order for a specified time, or moy grant an order of discharge subject to any conditions with respect to any earnings or income which may afterwards become due to the bankrupt,or with respect to his afteracquired property :

Provided that the court shall refuse the discharge’ in all cases where the bankrupt has committed any offence under this, act, or any other offence connected with his bankruptcy, unless the court, in its discretion, otherwise determines; (7.) The facts referred to in the last preceding sub-section are -

6 ) That the bankrupt has omitted to keep such books of account . . .. within the five years immediately preceding his bankruptcy . . .

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That after the word “ trustee,” sub-clause 1, the words “or a creditor who has proved his debt “ be inserted.

That the words “ earnings or income,” subclause 5, paragraph b, be left out with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “ pay, pension, salary, emoluments, profits, wages, earnings or income.”

Mr CORSER:
Wide Bay

.- I move) -

That after the word “ bankruptcy,” subclause 7, paragraph b, the words “ , including a book or books containing entries from day to day in sufficient detail of all cash received and cash paid, and, where the trade or business has involved dealings in goods, accounts of all goods sold and purchased, and statements of annual stocktakings “ be inserted.

This is a clause which will make imperative the keeping of proper accounts of cash received and paid, and of goods purchased. It provides safeguards for all concerned.

Mr Brennan:

– Is it not rathersevere on many people to force them to keep such books of account?

Mr CORSER:

– The amendment is meant not for people in business in a small way, who keep no books, but is meant to apply to those who have large business transactions, but yet keep no proper books of account.

Mr Brennan:

– This is a matter which comes under the general heading of “ Conduct.”

Mr CORSER:

– If a man knows that he is expected to keep books under the act it will make him more careful.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– By this amendment the honorable member would tie up the court to say what books should be kept in a business. The general clause is sufficient

Mr Gabb:

– I call attention to the state of the committee. [Quorum formed.]

Amendment negatived.

Clause 119, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 120 agreed to.

Clause 121 verbally amended and agreed to.

Clauses 122 to 132 agreed to.

Clause 133 - (1.) Where the creditors appoint any person other than the official receiver to be trustee of a bankrupt’s estate, his remuneration (if any) shall from time to time be fixed by a resolution of the creditors, or if the creditors so resolve, by the committee of inspection, and shall be in the nature of a commission not exceeding Five pounds per centum on the amount realized by the trustee after the deduction of the expenses of realization, but the creditors may, by resolution, fix a higher commission on the collection of book debts.

Provided, however, that in the case of two or more trustees acting in succession the commission shall be apportioned in such manner as the Registrar determines. . . .

Mr.CORSER (Wide Bay) [10.8].- I move -

That all the words after “ commission “, line 7, be left out with a view to insert in lieu thereof the following paragraphs : -

not exceeding Five pounds per centum on the amount realized by the trustee after the deduction of the expenses of realization, subject to the creditors by resolution, fixing a higher commission on the collection of book debts; or

where the trustee is permitted to carry on the business of the bankrupt, not exceeding one per centum on the turnover of the capital involved in the business.

In his second-reading speech the Minister said that he would consent to this amendment.

Mr Bowden:

– Not to this one.

Mr CORSER:

– This clause refers to the remuneration of the trustee appointed to administer an estate. Let us suppose that a storekeeper, through no fault of his own, but through adverse seasons, is unable toobtain payment from his debtors, and that he asks for an advance from his creditors. The creditors meet together and decide to give him an extension of time on the condition that a trustee is appointed to carry on the business at a remuneration of 1 per cent, on the turnover. Later, the storekeeper is able to meet his obligations. In that case there is no act of insolvency. Under the bill there is no power to appoint any trustee to look after a business that is being carried on in the interest of the debtor and his creditors. I know of cases where estates in this way have been retained by the debtors, who, through reasonable time being allowed them, have been able to carry on their affairs and pay 20s. in the £1.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– I have no objection to the proposal of the honorable member for Wide Bay, with respect to deeds of arrangement or assignments without sequestration, but I do not think it should apply in cases of bankruptcy.

Amendment negatived.

Amendment (by Mr. Corser) proposed -

That at the end of sub-clause 1 the following proviso be added: - “Provided further, that where in any particular case the creditors by resolution determine that, in view of the amount likely to be realized by the trustee being small and of all the circumstances of the case, the remuneration of the trustee shall not be less than an amount specified in the resolution, the court may approve of the remuneration of the trustee being not less than the amount so specified.”

Mr Bowden:

– I cannot accept the amendment. I have another amendment on the file which makes the necessary provision in a different way, enabling the court to prescribe an additional amount or a lump sum.

Amendment negatived.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to -

That after sub-clause 1 the following new sub-clause be inserted: - “ (1a.) Notwithstanding anything contained in the last preceding sub-section the remuneration of the trustee shall, if the creditors so resolve, be a sum of money fixed in accordance with the prescribed scale.”

That after sub-clause 3 the following new sub-clause be inserted: - “ (3a.) Notwithstanding anything contained in this section, the court may order that the remuneration of a trustee be increased, and may take into account in allowing the increase -

any special services rendered by the trustee; and

any special circumstances which in the opinion of the court increased the difficulty of realizing the estate.”

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 134 agreed to.

Clause 135 (Solicitation by trustee prohibited).

Mr CORSER:
Wide Bay

– I suggest that this clause be left out, for I see no objection to allowing solicitation for trusteeships. In a large state like Queensland, it would be difficult and expensive to send trustees to outlying parts. Creditors would not be bound to accept as trustees any persons who might solicit appointment, but there is no reason why a young man, who might be thoroughly capable but yet not well known, should be denied the right to seek new business.

Mr Bowden:

– It would be very undesirable to have trustees “touting” for such positions.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 136 to 153 agreed to.

Clause 154 - (1.) Where a sequestration order is made against a debtor, if the court is satisfied by affidavit or otherwise, or if the official receiver reports to the court that neither the assets nor the liabilities of the debtor are likely to exceed in value Three hundred pounds, the court may make an order that the debtor’s estate be administered in a summary manner, and thereupon the provisions of this act shall, in relation to the bankruptcy, be subject to such modifications as are prescribed for such cases with the view of simplifying procedure and saving expense. (2.) The official receiver alone shall be the trustee in the bankruptcy.

Amendment (by Mr. Corser) negatived -

That sub-clause (2) be omitted.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 155 and 156 agreed to.

Clause 157 - (1.) A meeting of creditors under this Part may be called by a debtor, his solicitor, or agent, by circulars delivered at or posted to the residence or place of business of each of the creditors not less than three nor more than twenty-one days before the day of meeting and by advertisement as is prescribed.

Amendment (by Mr. Corser) agreed to-

That the word “ and,” line 6, be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “ or.”

Clause, as amended, agreed to,

Clauses 158 and 159 agreed to.

Clause 160 -

The following provisions shall be observed at all meetings of creditors held under this Part:-

  1. The majority in number of the creditors present at the meeting, in person, by proxy, or by attorney, shall elect a chairman.
  2. The debtor shall attend the meeting .. .

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to -

That after the word “ shall,” paragraph (b), the words “ unless prevented by sickness or other sufficient cause “ be inserted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 161 agreed to.

Clause 162 - (8.) The provisions so far as applicable of Part VIII. of this act shall apply to every trustee of a deed of assignment.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to -

That after the word “ apply “ the words” in relation” be inserted.

That after the word “ assignment “ the words “as if an order of sequestration had been made against the debtor and the trustee had been appointed trustee in the bankruptcy “ be inserted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 163 -

Every such deed shall comply with the following provisions: -

  1. The deed shall be executed by the trustee within seven days after the debtor’s execution thereof, and the execution by the debtor and trustee shall be respectively attested by an official receiver, registrar, barrister, solicitor, or justice of the peace; and each witness shall specify the date on whichthe execution so attested waa made;
  2. Forthwith after the execution of the deed by the debtor, a notice of the deed, containing the name, residence, and description of the debtor, and the name of the trustee, and specifying where the deed is lying for inspection and execution, shall be given to the registrar of the court wherein the certificate of the resolution mentioned in the last preceding section was filed, and the cost of advertising the notice in the Gazette shall at the same time be paid.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That after the word “thereof”, paragraph (e) , the words “or within such further time as is prescribed “ be inserted.

That after the word” paid “, paragraph (f), the words “and a copy ofthe notice shall be lodged in the office of the Registrar of Titles, or Registrar-General, or other proper officer of each state and in such other places as are prescribed.”

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 164 to 174 agreed to.

Clause 175 -

The trustee of every deed shall -

at the expiration of twelve months from the date of the deed, on the application of the official receiver, at the request of any creditor, forthwith pay into court all moneys in his hands or to his credit belonging to the assigned’ estate; and if he keep any such moneys in his hands or under his control in contravention of this paragraph for a period of one month after such application, or keep money in his hands in contravention of the last preceding paragraph, shall be subject to the like liabilities and penalites as if he had been a trustee in bankruptcy and wrongfully kept moneys in his hands contrary to the provisions of this. Act;

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the words “ official receiver,” paragraph (e), be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “ registrar.”

Clause further consequentially amended, and, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 176 agreed to.

Clause 177 -

The trustee shall not, without the consent of the majority of the creditors in value, within ten days after the debtor’s execution of the deed, nor until the assents required for the validity of the deed have .been obtained, realize, sell, or otherwise dispose of, except in the ordinary course of business, any portion of the debtor’s property, except property of a perishable nature, passing under the deed.

Mr DUNCAN-HUGHES:
Boothby

– This clause, as indicated in the margin, is based on a section of the South Australian Insolvency Act, though it does not follow that section exactly. Section 287 of the South Australian Act provides that -

The trustee shall not realize, make sale, or otherwise dispose of any portion of the debtor’s property, except property of a perishable nature passing under the deed within ten days from the debtor’s execution thereof.

The clause is an extension of that provision, and it is strongly opposed in South Australia, the one state in which a somewhat similar provision is in operation. I suggest, therefore, that it should be eliminated. There does not appear, either, to be any’ reason why the powers of the trustee should be restricted in the way proposed. He is likely to be a reputable person who will safeguard the interests of the creditors. Clause 126 makes provision for his appointment by the court, and the court has power, not only to appoint him, but to cancel his registration, I point out, further, that this clause contains a proviso which makes the matter much worse, and does not appear in the South Australian act. That proviso is contained in the words in the centre of the clause - nor until the assents required for the validity of the deed have been obtained.

If we go back to clause 163, we shall find that in paragraph g it is provided that -

The deed shall be assented to by three-fourths in value and one-half in number of the creditors, every creditor for under Ten pounds being reckoned in value only.-

Then, in paragraph i of the same clause it is provided that -

The assents shall be given, as regards creditors resident in Australia or having therein a known duly authorized agent, within thirty days from the execution of the deed by the debtor, and as regards other creditors within six months from the execution.

Mr Bowden:

– I am prepared to move the omission of the words “nor until” with a view to inserting the word “unless”, and the insertion after the word “ been “ of the word “ sooner.’-

Mr DUNCAN-HUGHES:

– I prefer that the whole clause should be eliminated ; but, if the Minister is not prepared to agree to that, the amendment he suggests would be some improvement upon the clause. It should be obvious to the committee that under this clause, read in conjunction with clause 163, it is possible that a trustee might not be able to sell a property within a month in the case of creditors resident in Australia, or within six months in the case of creditors resident outside Australia. That would defeat the whole purpose of the clause, which is to provide that the property of the debtor shall be realizable as quickly as possible. It is further to- be noted that provisions somewhat similar to those in clause 163 ri and i are included in the South Australian act. If honorable members will look up the South Australian act, or will accept my assurance, I tell them that, under that act, the trustee has power to sell at any»time after the expiration of ten days, whereas under this bill he might not be able to sell, in some cases, within a period of less than six months.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

.- I think there is some force in the honorable member’s objection to. the proviso in this clause, to which he has referred, but the trustee should not be able to sell the property of a debtor within ten days after the execution of the deed without the consent of the creditors unless the assents have been first obtained. The clause, in its present form may be capable of the interpretation which the honorable member puts upon it, and I am prepared to move the omission of the words “ nor until “ with a view to insert the word “unless”, and to insert after the word “been” the words “sooner obtained”.

Mr HURRY:
Bendigo

.- I suggest that it would be more advisable to delete the words “ nor until the assents required for the validity of the deed have been obtained.”

Mr DUNCAN-HUGHES:
Boothby

– The Minister’s suggested amendment will certainly prevent undue procrastination, although I would prefer the deletion of the clause. It would be better to accept the Minister’s amendment than the suggestion of the honorable member for Bendigo (Mr. Hurry).

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the words “ nor until” be left out with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “ unless “.

That after the word “ been “, line 5, the word “ sooner “ be inserted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 178 to 183 agreed to.

Clause 184-

The trustee of a deed may retain out of the estate, as a remuneration for his care and trouble in and about the execution of the trusts thereof, such commission as is fixed by the creditors, the commission not to exceed Five pounds per centum on the amount realized by the trustee after the deduction of the expenses of realization, but the creditors may fix a higher commission on the collection of book debts.

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That after the word “ thereof “, line 4, the words “ such a sum of money or “ be inserted.

Amendment (by Mr. Corser) proposed -

That all the words after “ exceed “, line 5, be left out, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the following. paragraphs: -

Five pounds per centum on the amount realizedby the trustee after the deduction of the expenses of realization, subject to the creditors, by resolution, fixing a higher commission on the collection of book debts; or

where the trustee carries on the business of the debtor, one pound per centum on the turnover of the capital of the business.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

.- I have received a communication from a very reputable public accountant in my electorate, who acts as trustee in a great many cases of bankruptcy. He states that if the amendmentof the honorable member for Wide Bay (Mr. Corser) is agreed to, the result will be that accountants will refuse to undertake trusteeships. He points out that if the commission is based on the net amount realized by the trustee, it will mean that in many cases he will receive practically no remuneration for his services. This will apply, particularly, where the trustee is compelled to resort to litigation, and where the whole of the proceeds of the sale of the assets are absorbed in legal expenses. The trustee’s remuneration, he contends, should be left as it is, that is to say, the commission should be based on the gross receipts. This also applies to the case where the trustee carries on the business of the debtor with the consent of the creditors. One per cent. on the turnover of the capital of a business, he holds, is absurd, and may mean nothing to the trustee. As a matter cf fact, in most insolvent estates, there is no capital, for otherwise they would not be insolvent. The Queensland act leaves this matter in the hands of the creditors. Usually the trustee gets from1¼ to1½ per cent, of the gross sales of the business, and he thinks that that basis should not be altered. The Queensland act covers the ground adequately in this respect, and does not require altering. I contend that the trustee’s remuneration should be left entirely in the hands of the creditors, as is done in Queensland and England. According to Pixley, an authority on accountancy, the English bankruptcy rules of 1886 do not restrict the amount of commission paid to the trustees in insolvency. The commission is generally based on the amount realized, and, in addition to that, a percentage is usually allowed on the amount distributed in dividends. I bring this matter forward because the gentleman who wrote to me is a wellknown authority on bankruptcy matters in Central Queensland, and acts frequently as a trustee.

Mr Bowden:

– I think the amendment proposed by me and accepted by the committee, will meet the honorable member’3 argument.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed, to.

Clauses 185 to 191 agreed to.

Clause 192 - (1.) A deed of arrangement to which this Part applies shall be absolutely inoperative and invalid unless -

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to -

That the words “ absolutely inoperative and invalid “ be left out with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “ void.”

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 193 negatived.

Clauses 194 to 196 agreed to.

Clause 197 (Contents of Register).

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the following new sub-clause be added : - (2.) Notice of the registration of every deed stittinsr the particulars mentioned in the last preceding sub-section shall be lodged in the office of the Registrar of Titles, or RegistrarGeneral or other proper officer of each state and in such other places as are prescribed.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 198 agreed to.

Clause 199 - (2.) The provisions, so far as applicable, of

Part V. of this act shall apply to every deed of arrangement registered under this Part, in respect to the control over the person and property of the debtor and to the wife, or, where the debtor is a married woman, the. husband, of the debtor and to any person supposed to be indebted to the debtor or to have in his possession any of his estate or effects or to bc able to give information respecting his dealings or property. (3.) The provisions, so far as applicable, of

Part VIII. of this act shall apply to every trustee of a deed of arrangement.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That after the word “ apply,” sub-clause

, the following words be inserted : - “ as if a sequestration order had been made against the debtor.”

That after the word “ apply,” sub-clause

  1. , the words “ in relation “ be inserted.

That the following words be added to subclause (3) : - “ as if an order of sequestration had been made against the debtor and the trustee had been appointed trustee in the bankruptcy.”

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 200-

Where a deed of arrangement is void by reason that the requisite majority of creditors have not assented thereto, or in the case of a deed for the benefit of three or more creditors by reason that the debtor was insolvent at the time of the execution of the deed, and that the deed was not registered as required by this Part but is not void forany other reason, and a sequestration order is made against a debtor upon a petitionpresented after the lapse of three months from the execution of the deed, the trustee under the deed shall not be liable to account to the trustee.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the word “ three “, second occurring, be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “ six “.

That the following new sub-clause be added: - “ (2.) When a deed of arrangement is voidby virtue of this Act for any reason other than that it has not been registered within the time allowed for the purpose by this Part, the trustee shall, as soon as practicable after he has become aware that the deed is void, give notice in writing thereof to each creditor whose name and address he knows, and file a copy of the notice with the Registrar, and, if he fails to do so, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding Twenty pounds.”

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 201 (Notice to creditors of avoidance of deed).

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the clause bc omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the following clause: - 201. If the trustee under a deed of arrangement fails to give security when required so to do in pursuance of this Act, the Court may, on the application of any creditor, and after hearing such persons as it thinks fit, declare the deed of arrangement to be void or may cancel the appointment of the trustee, and order that some other person registered as qualified to act as a trustee bo appointed by the creditors.

Clause 202 agreed to.

Clause 203 - (1.) The remuneration of a trustee of a deed of arrangement shall from time to time be fixed as determined by the creditors, and shall he in the nature of a commission, the commission not to exceed £5 per centum. on the amount realized by the trustee after the deduction of the expenses of realization, but the creditors may fix a higher commission on the collection of book debts.

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That after the word “ be”, second occurring, the words “ such a sum of money as is fixed by the creditors or shall be “ be inserted.

Amendment (by Mr. Corser) agreed to- ‘

That all the words after “exceed” be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the following words : -

  1. Five pounds per centum on the amount realized by the trustee after the deduction of the expenses of realization, subject to the creditors, by resolution, fixing a higher commission on the collection of book debts; or
  2. where the trustee carries on the business of the debtor, one pound per centum on the turnover of the capital of the business.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 204 and 205 agreed to.

Clause 206-

Any applicationby the trustee under a deed of arrangement which cither is expressed to be or is in fact for the benefit of the debtor’s creditors generally, or by the debtor or by any creditor entitled to the benefit of such a deed of arrangement, for the enforcement of the trusts or the determination of questions under it, shall be made to the Court having jurisdiction in bankruptcy in the district in which the debtor resided or carried on business at the date of the execution of the deed:

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the words “ debtor resided or carried on business at the date of the execution of the deed” be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “ deed is registered.”

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 207 agreed to.

Clause 208- (5.) Any person claiming to be entitled to any moneys paid into the prescribed account pursuant to this section may, within six years from the date those moneys are so paid in, apply to the court for payment to him of any sum due to him, and, if satisfied that the person claiming is entitled thereto, the court shall make an order for the payment accordingly. (6.) All such unclaimed or undistributed funds or dividends not paid out in pursuance of the last preceding sub-section shall, on the expiration of six years after the same respectively are paid into the account at the Treasury as prescribed, be paid into the ConsolidatedRevenue Fund.

Amendments (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That the words “ within six years from the date those moneys are so paid in “ in subclause 5 be omitted.

That sub-clause 6 be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the following new subclauses : - (6.) The interest arising from any investment of the moneys paid into the prescribed account pursuant to this section shall be paid to the credit of a fund to be called the “ Bankruptcy Suitors’ Fund “ which shall be a trust account within the meaning of section sixty-two A of the Audit Act. 1001-1920. (7.) If it appears to the court, upon the application of the official receiver or trustee, that inquiries or proceedings relating to a bankrupt’s estate ought to be instituted or carried on, or any prosecution ought to be carried on against any person for any offence against this Act, and that there are no funds in the estate available for the inquiries, proceedings or prosecution, the court may direct the payment of the costs of any such inquiries, proceedings or prosecution, after taxation thereof out of the *’ Bankruptcy Suitors’ Fund “ and paymentof the taxed costs shall be made accordingly.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 209 to 212 agreed to.

Clause 213 - (1.) If any person who has on any previous occasion been a bankrupt or made a composition or arrangement with his creditors becomes a bankrupt, he shall be guilty of an offence, if, having during the whole or any part of the two years immediately preceding the . . .

Amendment (by Mr. Corser) proposed -

That the words “ If any person who has on any previous occasion been a bankrupt or made a composition or arrangement with his creditors becomes a bankrupt, he “ be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “A bankrupt.”

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– The Government cannot accept the amendment. As will be seen, the penalty provided is imprisonment for one year. Such apunishment might not be excessive for one who had previously been insolvent, but would be unnecessarily harsh on a person who had not previously been before the court. Provision is made elsewhere for the punishment of a bankrupt who has been guilty of an offence by declining to issue a certificate of discharge.

Amendment negatived.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 214 (Gambling or unjustifiable speculations).

Mr WEST:
East Sydney

.- It is provided in sub-clause 1 that if a bankrupt brings about or contributes to his bankruptcy by gambling or by unjustifiable speculation unconnected with his trade or business, he shall be guilty of an offence, for which he is liable to be imprisoned for twelve months. A person may have no wilful intention of defrauding his creditors, but at the same time may, as the result of speculation which he considers justifiable, become bankrupt.

Mr Bowden:

– No proceedings could be taken except by order of the court.

Mr WEST:

– The term of imprisonment provided seems excessive. There axe many ways in which a person may unintentionally become involved, and I trust the Minister will agree to the deletion of the words relating to unjustifiable speculation.

Mr BRENNAN:
Batman

.- I agree that there is much in the objection raised by the honorable member for East Sydney. The clause is curiously worded. Ordinary speculation, such as mild betting on horse races, in which a normal man may indulge, might be followed by bankruptcy due to other contributing causes, but such gambling or speculation might be regarded as a contributory cause, and render him liable to twelve months’ imprisonment. The penalty is too. severe.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– This is a copy of the Victorian provision. It is not in the New South Wales act, but there have been many oases in which such a provision would have been desirable. For instance, debtors have alleged that they had lost a few thousand pounds on the race-course, when they actually had the money safely deposited somewhere. This will, at any rate, prevent a debtor raising that plea.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 215 to 220 agreed to.

Clause 221 (Penalty on trustee acting when deed of arrangement void).

Mr Corser:

– I invite the committee to negative this clause because it is regarded as too drastic.

Clause agreedto.

Clauses 222 and 223 agreed to.

New clause 191a.

Amendment (by Mr. Bowden) agreed to-

That too following new clause be inserted : - “191a.- (1.) A deed of arrangement to which this Part applies shall comply with the following conditions: -

It shall contain in a first schedule annexed a true and particular account of all the property of which the debtor or any person in trust for him is possessed, or to which he or any such person is entitled legally or equitably in possession, reversion, remainder, or expectancy, so far as the debtor can ‘set it forth, except such articles of household furniture, wearing apparel of the debtor and his family, tools or implements of his trade and other like necessaries (not exceeding in the whole the value of Fifty pounds) as the debtor selects, and such other household furniture as a majority of the creditors may by resolution determine;

It shall contain in a second schedule annexed the names of the several creditors of the debtor and the several amounts due or supposed to be due to them respectively; and

A declaration by the debtor in the prescribed form verifying the contents of the schedules shall be attached to the deed. “ (2.) The trustee (if any) of such a deed shall be a person registered under Part VIII. of this act as qualified to act as a trustee. “ (3.) Notwithstanding anything contained in the next succeeding section, the court may, after the execution of such a deed, on the application ofthe trustee (if any) or of any creditor who has assented to the deed, subject to such conditions (if any) as the court thinks fit to impose, order a stay of proceedings in any action, execution, distress for rent, or other legal process, in rospect of any debt or liability which would be provable in the bankruptcy if a sequestration order were made against the debtor, and may at any time in its discretion set aside the order. “ (4.) The order while in force shall have the effect of staying the proceedings pending the registration of the deed and its receiving the assent of the requisite majority in number and value of the creditors within the prescribed time. “ (5.) The form in the first part of the

Third Schedule to this act may be used for any deed to which this Part applies, and when so used shall be of the same effect as if it were in the form of a deed in the second part of that Schedule.”

New clause 219a.

Mr CORSER:
Wide Bay

– I move -

That the following new clause be inserted : 219a. The trial on indictment of any offence against thisact Bhall be by special jury as prescribed.

Usually the men empanelled on a common jury have not commercial or financial experience, and it is thought that offences against the bankruptcy law should be tried before a special jury,which would be better qualified to deal with them.

Mr BOWDEN:
Minister for Defence · Parramatta · NAT

– The offences referred to are quasi criminal, and as the penalty is imprisonment, the accused person is entitled to be tried by an ordinary jury. The selection of a special jury of business men to try the accused person in proceedings arising out of bankruptcy would be very unwise.

Proposed new clause negatived.

Mr Corser:

– I have given notice of several other proposed new clauses, but I understand from the Minister that similar provisions are already in the bill.

Mr Bowden:

– That is so. The objects desired to be attained by the honorable member in his proposed amendments are practically provided for in Parts XI. and XII. I think that what the honorable member desires to achieve by the new clauses of which he has given notice is already provided for, although in a different way.

Schedules agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported with amendments ; and report (by leave) adopted.

page 4446

ASSENT TO BILLS

Assent to the following bills reported: -

Sea Carriage of Goods Bill.

Wine Export Bounty Bill.

Wireless Agreement Bill.

page 4446

BILLS RETURNED FROM THE SENATE

Tasmania Grant Bill returned from the Senate without amendment.

Excise Tariff (Spirits) Bill returned from the Senate without request.

Tariff Board Bill returned from the Senate with a message intimating that the Senate had agreed to the amendments made by the House of Representatives upon its amendment No. 2.

House adjourned at 11 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 17 September 1924, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1924/19240917_reps_9_109/>.