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House of Representatives
9 August 1910

4^th Parliament · 1^st Session

SUPPLY BILL (No. 2)
CONSTITUTION ALTERATION (STATE DEBTS)
TRUST FUND ADVANCES BILL
PAPERS
QUESTION
- NEW CABLE SERVICE
QUESTION
- RETURNING OFFICERS
QUESTION
- CLERKS’ INCREMENTS
QUESTION
- POSTMASTER-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT
AUSTRALIAN NOTES BILL
- Second Reading
SUPPLY’ BILL (No. 2)
COMMONWEALTH CONCILIATION AND ARBITRATION BILL

Mr. Speaker took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 1225

SUPPLY BILL (No. 2)

Mr. SPEAKER reported the receipt of a message recommending an appropriation for the purposes of this Bill.

Referred to Committee of Supply.

page 1225

CONSTITUTION ALTERATION (STATE DEBTS)

Assent reported.

page 1225

TRUST FUND ADVANCES BILL

Assent reported.

page 1225

PAPERS

MINISTERS laid upon the table the following papers : -

Postmaster-General’s Department - General Post Office, Sydney - Hours worked by Officers in the Delivery and Despatch Rooms.

Papua - Ordinances of1910-

No.2 - Supplementary Appropriation 1909-10, No. 5.

No. 3 - Deputy Chief Judicial Officer.

No. 4 - Mining Ordinance Amendment.

Public Service Act - Papers relating to the appointment of F. J. Quinlan as Chief Cleric, Department of External Affairs.

page 1226

QUESTION

NEW CABLE SERVICE

Mr.W. ELLIOT JOHNSON.- I ask the Minister of External Affairs if he has read the following paragraph, which appeared in the Standard of Empire under the heading, “ Australia’s New Cable Service”:

A private cable message received in London this week from Mr. T. Temperley (one of the Australian delegates to last year’s Imperial Press Conference), states that the Commonwealth Government has definitely announced its decision to granta subsidy of £6,000, extended over three years, to the recently created Independent Press Cable Association of Australia. The subsidy is expected to begin from next month, and is intended to stimulate the cable service of news published mainly in the organs of the Labour party, and in various rural newspapers. Complaints had been made that the existing cable news service did not cater sufficiently to Labour interests. Mr. Temperley is the managing director of the Independent Association.

Are the statements which I have read true, and, if so, does the Minister think that it is proper that the taxpayers’ money should be utilized for the purposes of party propaganda ?

Mr BATCHELOR:
Minister for External Affairs · BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– In replying to the question I do not intend to discuss the point raised by the honorable member ; I merely say that the Government, as has been already announced, has determined to submit to Parliament proposals for a subsidy whose nature is not accurately stated in the paragraph which has been read.

page 1226

QUESTION

RETURNING OFFICERS

Mr J H CATTS:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I wish to know from the Minister of Home Affairs why it is that some of the returning officers who acted at the last election have not yet been paid?

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
Minister for Home Affairs · DARWIN, TASMANIA · ALP

– I am not aware that any of them have not been paid, but I shall look into the matter.

page 1226

QUESTION

CLERKS’ INCREMENTS

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:
INDI, VICTORIA · ALP

asked the

Prime Minister, upon notice -

Is it the intention of the Government, as was the custom under the Victorian Public Service Act 773, to pay annual increments to clerks in the 3rd and 4th classes of the clerical division nf the Service, provided that the conduct and efficiency of such officers have been satisfactory during the preceding twelve months, and that the officers are recommended for increments by the head of their Department?
Does the Prime Minister interpret section 22 of the Commonwealth Public Service Act 1902 as meaning that -
1. increments to 3rd and 4th class clerks are (dependent on good conduct and efficiency) payable annually? or
2. it is required by sub-section (2) of the section quoted that reasons other than good conduct and efficiency must exist to entitle officers to increments annually?
Is thereany reason why the policy of the Public Service Commissioner should not be in accordance with (a) in the preceding question

Mr FISHER:
Prime Minister · WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · ALP

– The Public Service Commissioner states -

No; the Commonwealth Public Service Act does not provide such procedure. Act 773 was repealed by the State Government, and substituted by an amending Act. 2. (a) and (b). The Act does not provide that increments to officers of the fourth and higher classes shall be cither automatic or annual.
Yes; the policy of the Commonwealth is that increments in the higher divisions are only payable when the efficiency of the officer and the value of the work warrant it.

page 1226

QUESTION

POSTMASTER-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT

Mr Chalmers Post Office - Uniform Postage

Mr HIGGS:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

Whether he has received a petition signed by 212 residents of Mr Chalmers, Queensland, strongly objecting to any alteration being made in the site for the proposed local semi-official post and telegraph office, as originally selected by the petitioners, and approved by a Departmental officer in Rockhampton?
Will the Minister cause an official inquiry to be made intoall the facts, and report the result to the petitioners?

Mr THOMAS:
Postmaster-General · BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are these -

Yes.
Instructions have already been given for a Departmental officer to be sent to investigate the matter on the spot.

Mr SAMPSON:
for Mr. Sinclair

asked the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

Whether, in view of the fact that the States are now practically being paid under theper capita system, it is his intention to introduce, at an early date, legislation to provide for a uni form postage rate throughout Australia?-

Mr THOMAS:

– It is hoped that a Bill to provide for uniform postage rates throughout the Commonwealth will be introduced during this session.

page 1226

AUSTRALIAN NOTES BILL

Second Reading

Mr FISHER:
Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

.-I move -

That this Bill bc now read a second time.

The legislative powers of the Parliament are stated briefly in the thirty-nine articles contained in the sub-divisions of section 51 of the Constitution. Let me read the words of the section covering the legislation which I have introduced. They are these -

The Parliament shall, subject to the Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to - (xii.) Currency, coinage, and legal tender; (xiii.) Banking, other than State banking; also State banking extending beyond the limits of the State concerned, the incorporation of banks, and the issue of paper money.

– That is only in one State, I understand.

Mr FISHER:

– It is absolutely necessary, under ordinary circumstances, that payment for notes should be made only at the Treasury, at the seat of Government. This is no departure from the practice of banks, or the method adopted in the case of the Queensland State issue, and a number of other State issues of the kind. I

– I think that the time allowance is sufficient. The probability is that the complaint made against the Commonwealth Government will be, not as to the length of time allowed for the withdrawal of the State issue, but as to there being any differential treatment. Six months is a fair time to allow, because I understand from* the statistics that the Queensland Government have in gold reserves fully one-third the amount of their issue, and a further amount on deposit with the banks. That being so, their financial embarrassment, if any, is not likely to be very great. There ought not to be, in this respect, any serious suggestion of undue harshness on our part. The tendency will be, perhaps, to say that we are offering more lenient terms than might reasonably have been expected. Part II. of the Bill gives authority for the issue, re-issue, and cancellation of notes, and also deals with their denominations. It is proposed, for the first time, I believe, in the history of Australia, to print and issue a note of the denomination of 1 os.

Mi. G. B. Edwards. - Hear, hear !

Mr FISHER:

– I am glad to know that the view that a note of that denomination should be issued by the Commonwealth is not confined to this side of the House. After all, this is not a party matter, and I think that fact will be recognised. The Government are of opinion that the time has arrived when there ought to be issued a note of a lower denomination than one pound. The experience of other countries has proved the utility of such an issue, but I do not think it would be advisable, at the present time, to issue notes of any lower denomination than 10s.

Sir John Forrest:

– Is there any necessity for issuing a note of the denomination of 10s?

Mr FISHER:

– I think there is. The half-sovereign is a most inconvenient coin, and, I believe, the 10s. note will be one of the most popular of the issue. This is an important provision, and as it is entirely new, I draw the special attention of the

House to it. I believe that the issue of a note of the denomination of 10s. will add to the aggregate amount of paper issue voluntarily held by the people of Australia, and will also prove a great convenience. There is in the Bill a provision that will enable the Commonwealth Government to enter into an arrangement with banks of issue at the present time, to accept their unsigned paper, and to issue it as Commonwealth notes with the Commonwealth stamp upon it. By the adoption of this course we shall be able to issue Commonwealth notes much earlier than would be possible if we had to await the printing of our own notes. I am happy to inform the House that this arrangement will be carried out in an amicable spirit as between the Government and the banking companies concerned.

Mr Groom:

– Will the Government deal with Queensland State notes in the same way ?

Mr FISHER:

– I shall have no objection ; but, in all probability, as the Government of that State will not be compelled to discontinue their issue until six months after the coming into operation of this Bill, their note issue will be running concurrently with the Commonwealth issue for some time. It is unlikely that the Queensland Government will be prepared to surrender the right to issue notes which they will enjoy for some time after the passing of this Bill. The application of the money derived from the Australian note issue is clearly set out in the Bill, and I do not think that there is one dangerous proposition in connexion with the provision. Honorable members will observe that under clause 8 it may -

be held by the Treasurer in gold coin; or
be used in the redemption of Australian

Notes; or

be expended for any purpose that the Parliament directs.

It is further provided that -

The Treasurer may sell or dispose of any securities in which any moneys are invested in pursuance of this section- and so forth. We have, therefore, a provision which absolutely protects the issue, and practically gives Parliament full control over the total amount that comes into possession of .the Treasury as the result of the operation of this Bill. I have already said that this is to be a paper currency on a gold basis, and honorable members will find in clause 9 a provision that the Commonwealth Treasurer shall hold in gold coin a reserve equal to one-fourth of the amount of Australian notes issued up to ^7,000,000. It is also provided that when the issue exceeds ^7,000,000, the Commonwealth Treasurer shall be compelled to hold gold against the total notes issued in excess of that amount. It will, therefore, be seen that there is a special precaution in this Bill - a precaution which, I admit at once, is not, in my opinion, absolutely necessary. But out of consideration for the views of people who are quite, as earnest as I am in desiring the success of this measure, we wish to make things doubly secure, and have, therefore, deemed it advisable to limit the issue of Australian notes, or rather to increase the protection to the. note-holder by compelling the Treasurer to hold gold against all issues in excess of ^7,000,000. Therefore it will be seen that while the Treasurer may hold gold up to one-quarter of ^7,000,000, he will have to hold a sovereign for every £1 note issued in excess of that sum. That precaution, in my opinion, makes this scheme absolutely safe. One reason which has influenced the Government to adopt that precaution is that there may at times be an inflation of the issue, although, in my opinion, that will not take place while “the note issue is under ^7,000,000. But if it should happen that notes are issued on demand to the extent of a million or two in excess of ordinary requirements,” then, of course, this precautionary measure would take effect.

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– Does the Prime Minister expect that the Commonwealth will make any money out of this note issue?

Mr FISHER:

– The Government, on this occasion, are not advocating the measure merely for the sake of monetary gain. We are out for the purpose of establishing an Australian note issue for the whole Commonwealth. We are out for the purpose of establishing a currency in every detail - a paper currency, a bronze currency, a silver currency, and a gold currency - the entire currency being backed by the whole of the resources of the Commonwealth. Whether what we propose be profitable or not - and I believe that it will be profitable - it is a sound proposition, and ought to be carried out without unnecessary delay. Therefore, the mere question of gain to the Commonwealth does not arise. But the question having been raised by the honorable member, this is a convenient opportunity for me to say something in answer to those critics - carping critics, I will call them - who have been alleging that this is an attempt by the Government to raise money from the public.

Mr Sampson:

– Will the honorable gentleman mention any leading country in the world where the reserve is so low as is proposed in this case?

Mr FISHER:

– Speaking from memory,

I think that the Bank of Adelaide, incorporated here, has thought it possible to hold only 25 per cent, in gold.

of the Bill do not call for much comment at present. In Part
. dealing with offences, proper provision is made to protect the Commonwealth in every possible way, and all its acts. As regards the penal clauses, dealing with forgery, and so on, although the State Acts provide for these offences, the AttorneyGeneral thought it better to incorporate in the Bill the penalties, in order to make the law in relation to the offences uniform. I do not think that any exception can be taken to that. They are the usual penalties which are provided in the circumstances. Honorable members will see that in clause 27 we take precautions which, so far as I know, have not been taken in any other measure of the kind. I can remember that, in Queens-, land, the newspapers, the photographers, and other enterprising individuals photographed the State notes. There was a reprint of them in various journals, and in more than one instance, persons, who were more distinguished for smartness at deception than as good citizens, were able to palm them off as notes, and so defraud innocent persons. Therefore, in the Bill we have inserted this clause -

Every person who, without the authority of the Treasurer (proof whereof shall lie upon him), snakes or has in his possession -

any copy of an Australian note, or

any writing, engraving, photograph, or print resembling an Australian note, or apparently intended to be or pass for a copy of an Australian note, shall be guilty of an offence.

Penalty : One hundred pounds.

That, I think, honorable members will admit, is a necessary provision to make in these days of expert photography, and I do not think that any complaint can be made on that score. In clause 30 honorable members will find what is undoubtedly a protection to the banks. It would not be advisable, I think, to allow any individual, on his own authority, to start proceedings in respect of an offence against the law. The clause reads as follows : -

Proceedings for offences against this Act shall be instituted only by the Attorney-General, or by some person acting under his authority.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr Joseph Cook:

– I did not say that, but the Treasurer has divined my thoughts pretty well.

Mr FISHER:

– There is no harm in an honorable member of this House, who has been a member of State and Commonwealth Governments, expressing, in quite plain language, what is really meant. I do not take the trouble to state that the Government have not introduced this measure wholly and solely to meet the Government’s necessities ; it did not come into our minds in any serious way that the Government’s necessities made this our opportunity. I have told the history of this measure again and again, and I, and others with me, have been in favour of it for a long time. If rumour be true, previous Governments nibbled at a proposal of the kind, and, doubtless, would have liked to introduce a Bill, but, I suppose, they had not the courage. That, however, is another matter. We, at least, are on safe ground, and we have pledged ourselves again and again to introduce this Bill. Personally, I have taken the greatest precautions to . consult every authority, not holding our views, financial or political, that could advise me regarding this matter. Whilst, of course, there are differences of opinion regarding the policy, there is no serious, difference of opinion as to the soundness of this proposal under proper administration, and the people of the Commonwealth are assured that so long as the present Government remain in office the administration of ‘ this and every other Act will be on. safe and proper lines. I think it advisable at this stage to put in the table to which T referred earlier in my speech.,– and which, I understand, the honorable member for Flinders and others desire to see embodied in Hansard : - …

Apart from the omission of the Queensland notes, honorable members will note the big fall in the note circulation after the bank smashes. There are also other tables, the first giving statistics as to the banks of the world, from Mulhall’s Dictionary of Statistics. Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, you would allow me to put these into Hansard without reading them.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! Documents have previously been permitted to go into Hansard without being read in the House. There are times when exceptions have to be made, and when those exceptions are made there is generally some’ one who feels aggrieved. Consequently, the position I intend to take up is that every speaker shall read’ out what he desires should appear in Hansard. If that is done it will, I think, have the tendency in many cases to shorten debate, and at the same tim’e will not put me in the position of having to differentiate between member and member.

Mr FISHER:

– In August, 1896, the banks of the world stood in the positions disclosed by the following table : - “

The following table shows the issues of European banks, their bullion reserves, and the ratio of the latter to the former in March, 1898 : -

Then follows a most important table, showing the amount of paper money in Europe in 1895, 1896 and 1897 : -

These are statistics pure and simple, but I consider it advisable that they should be embodied in Hansard. The honorable member for Mernda has just pointed out to me that although he was a member of the Victorian Banking Commission - although his name appears in the Commission itself - he was absent from the colony when its recommendations were being considered, and did not append his name either to the majority or the minority report. I referred to his name not appearing among the list of dissenters to the report of the majority, and I am glad of the opportunity to make this correction, because the error wa§ one into which any person might readily have fallen. I have here further tables of considerable interest, giving information which does not altogether back up our proposal, although it is cognate to it. They deal with the banks trading in the Commonwealth, and, speaking generally, are rather in favour of the position occupied by those financial institutions.

In conclusion, may I say that I am happy to have the opportunity to submit to the House this Bill, which is founded, I believe, on sound lines, and deals only -with currency. I repeat that it does not deal with banking generally, and that we shall not attempt to deal with banking at present. , It provides for an Australian paper currency of legal tender, payable in gold at the Treasury of the Commonwealth, and there alone. The Government will take a favorable view of any proposal to provide later on, by regulation, facilities in other parts of the Commonwealth for the exchange of Australian notes for gold, and vice versa. They will not close their minds to that aspect of the question, but there must be only one place where these notes shall be compulsorily payable. I remind honorable members that the bank notes issued in such large States as South Australia, Western Australia, and Queensland, are payable only at the head office, and that since Thursday Island, for example, is further away from Brisbane than is Melbourne from Brisbane, no disability will be imposed on the people throughout Australia by” the provision that the Australian notes shall be legal tender throughout the Commonwealth, and shall be payable in gold only at the Commonwealth Treasury. The same remark will apply to the banking institutions of South Australia and Western Australia, for in the most remote parts of those States, bank notes are in circulation, and are honoured at their face value, except, perhaps, in time of crisis. I commend the Bill to the consideration of this House, and feel that, whilst there should be no undue haste in passing it, honorable members will’ agree with me that there is no need for delay, since no part of the Government policy has been so much discussed in the press. The people, indeed, are indebted to many of the newspaper correspondents, who have written upon this subject, for having relieved the tedium of a very dull time.

Mr GLYNN:
Angas

.- Whilst believing that the Prime Minister’s interference with the proposed paper currency of the Commonwealth has been the result of a conviction that it is justified on the grounds of public convenience, I confess that I have been unable to recognise the weight of the considerations which he adduced to-day in its favour, nor can I, on the spur of the moment, supplement them by any, which, with an open mind, might have occurred to myself. I do not think he need have apologized to the House for the introduction of the measure, because, from the inception of Federation, he has protested that it would be to the general interests of Australia if the Queensland system of currency were adopted throughout the Commonwealth. The honorable gentleman referred to the fact that people might, perhaps, say - I do not profess to quote the exact words used by him - that the Labour party, on the first occasion that offered, were taking advantage of their position to introduce this system of currency ; but since, to my own knowledge, he has held deep convictions on this matter for the last ten years, this Bill is only the legitimate exercise of the power which his position gives him to try to place those convictions on the statute-book. I am sure he will welcome from this side of the House criticism which is an endeavour, within the limits of my knowledge of the subject, to throw light upon a somewhat difficult and very much vexed question. I have not heard an answer to the challenge which was thrown out, towards the end of the honorable gentleman’s speech, by the honorable member for Parramatta, that, in recommending his Bill to the House, he should, first of all, point out the causes that had led to his opinion that a change of this sort is justifiable. If it could have been shown that control of the currency by the banks meant a monopoly detrimental to the public interest, that it meant a privilege and a profit that was beyond the reach of the taxation powers of either the Commonwealth or the States; that it meant inflation or undue contraction of the currency, commercial embarrassment, private inconvenience, or any of the many effects or concomitants of an ill-regulated paper currency, or a badly managed medium of exchange, I, for one, should welcome this Bill. But throughout the whole of the Prime Minister’s speech I failed to hear anything more than a casual assertion here and there that there was, in the present arrangement with the banks, something that necessitated this proposed interference with the currency. I would welcome the change were that shown, although, from my reading, I think it can be easily shown that the troubles in connexion with the currency have nearly all been the result of well intended but misguided efforts of the States to regulate it. I should be the. very first also to agree, if it were proved that this was a monopoly, that on grounds of public interest we should not hesitate for. one moment to interfere. If it were a monopoly clearly established, and beyond our legislative power to control, then I should say - as I should of all monopolies - that it was a case for State assumption or State destruction. No monopoly ought to be allowed to stand in the way of the public good. This is an age of control, in any case where a monopoly is established. It is an age which Democratic representation has shown to be one of control, because the conditions are altogether different from what they were some fifty or sixty years ago, when, perhaps, one class, and that, to some extent, the capitalistic and land-owning class, had a greater than its due proportion of the representation. It was under conditions of that kind that Herbert Spencer, in dealing with the currency question, and speaking of the growth of banking business and of capitalistic institutions, said -

In societies, associations, joint stock companies, we have new agencies occupying fields filled in less advanced times and countries by the State. With us the Legislature is dwarfed by newer and greater powers - is no longer master but slave.

– No ; because there is a continuous privilege given and taxed. The basis of this Bill is that the banks enjoy, not a monopoly, but a privilege, and the Treasurer says that we should take that for ourselves. What I say is that we should adopt the modern method, which our Democratic representation renders possible of continuous control, and which might, from time to time, be modified by increasing or diminishing the tax. “That is a method approved by no less an authority than the ComptrollerGeneral of Currency in the United States. Might I offer a word of advice upon this matter of banking and finance from one who, at all events, ought to be regarded as a very good authority? Edmund Burke, speaking upon some of the issues of his time, gives the advice that if the Treasurer wishes to borrow, he should do it openly -

The objects of a financier are, then, to secure an ample revenue; to impose it with judgment and equality; to employ it economically; and, when necessity obliges him to make use of credit, to secure its foundations in that instance and for ever by the clearness and candour of his proceedings, the exactness of his calculations, and the solidity of his fund.

Not by using the currency for the purpose of a sort of surreptitious loan. I direct particular attention to the words -

When necessity obliges him to make use of credit, to secure its foundation in that instance and for ever by the clearness and candour of his proceedings.

I say that this can be applied to the method adopted by the late Government last year, in what they considered the necessities of the time. I hope they will now be found not to be real necessities, and if the Treasurer, in his Budget statement, is able to show that we were mistaken on that point, no one will welcome the statement more than I will. I say that we did honestly face what seemed to us to be the pressing necessities of the moment, and proposed a method of borrowing which was the least objectionable open to us. It, at all events, was not a loan under the guise of currency, but a loan in reality. I say it was the least objectionable method open to us, because I have in mind that the proposed naval loan was to be repaid in a comparatively short time, and, further, except in so far as the revenue was deficient, the power of the Government under the Naval Loan Act was not to be availed of. The Leader of the Opposition, I am sure, will permit me to say that that was one of the understandings in his Cabinet. Might I be allowed also to point out that it seems to be one of the truisms in regard to the currency that the form and volume depend upon commercial needs, and that the more we lose sight of that under State regulation, the greater will be the tendency, as past experience shows, to the reality of disaster.

Mr J H Catts:

– What principle does the honorable gentleman say governs commercial needs? The term is a very wide one.

Mr GLYNN:

– I shall endeavour to point that out. I fore-ordained for myself a sequence for the few impressions which I wish to convey to the House, and, as far as possible, I will endeavour to pursue the course I mapped out for myself. Might I” quote on . the point I have mentioned, the evidence taken before the South Australian Commission on a State Bank, in 1899, and from an authority who was a banker in his time, but at the time he gave evidence before the Commission, was a member of a large stock and agency firm? I may tell honorable members that he was a man of liberal opinions which he pushed to the length of very great personal sacrifice, as far as any man I” haye met with in the arena of Parliament. I refer to Mr. William Liston, a South Australian banker, a very keen student of political economy, and - perhaps this may ingratiate him with some of my honorable friends opposite, as I confess it did with me - a keen advocate of the principles - so far as they are capable of just application - of land nationalization.

Mr Bamford:

– A very good man.

Mr GLYNN:

– I did . not wish to prejudice opinion upon the point, but to render palatable to honorable members opposite a short quotation from’ his evidence, which was against any interference with the currency in the shape of a State bank. In answer to question 3430, in the Minutes of Evidence of the Commission, I find he says on the question of currency -

It is the public, not the bank’s, that unconsciously regulate the circulation. A paper currency is a spontaneous outgrowth of modern commercial life, natural and safe so long as it is based upon the certainty or very high probability that its component parts can when required be converted into gold to an amount equal to the amount represented or into commodities which gold to an equal amount would procure.

The latter alternative is very often overlooked. Let me pass on now to another authority, of far greater reputation, but no greater political honesty. I have personal reason to know that in this matter Herbert Spencer, the authority to whom I now refer, modified some of his theories affecting monopolies which are propounded in Social Statics. I believe that he became to some extent rather a Conservative, as honorable members opposite will probably know, if they have read the controversy between him and Henry George. I said I had a personal reason to know of the modification of his views, because I have seen a letter which he sent to Mr. Liston, and in which he admitted that, however true in the abstract his theories propounded in Social Statics might be, he felt they were inapplicable to the condition of society at the present moment. What be has to say on the subject of the currency is against any interference by the State. He says -

The balance of a mixed currency is under all circumstances self-adjusting. Supposing considerations of physical convenience out of the question, the average rate of paper to coin is primarily dependent on the average trustworthiness of the people; and, secondly, on their average prudence.

Mr GLYNN:

– I asked a question on the subject a few days ago.

Mi. Bamford. - A bank might convert a note for the honorable member, but not for every one.

Mr GLYNN:

– I hope the honorable gentleman’s statement indicates a little more sweet reasonableness as regards the general provisions of the Bill in the light of subsequent discussion. On the three grounds to which I have referred, the proposed change in the currency is not, in my opinion, justified. It is not required as a loan, or to give stability to the banks, and it will not provide an increase of revenue. If it is to be based upon true currency principles, I think this Bill is unnecessary, and, on the whole, if it is pushed to a second reading, I feel that I shall have to record my vote against it.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Thomas Brown) adjourned.

Mr FISHER:
Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

– Before passing to the next Order of the Day, I wish to ask leave to insert the tables I have in my hand in their proper place in my speech. I think they will be found very useful tables.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Is it the pleasure of the House that leave be granted for the insertion of the table in Hansard?

Honorable Members. - Hear, hear.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Leave is granted. Might I add that I hope this will not be regarded as a precedent. If it is to be so regarded, we shall have no finality in this matter; but one honorable member after another will ask that documents should be included, and if they are not read, it will be impossible for us to say what they contain. They will load up Hansard, which, after all, is supposed to be a true record only of what is said in this Chamber. If we .permit this kind of thing Hansard will cease to be a true record of our debates.

page 1256

SUPPLY’ BILL (No. 2)

Naval Defence Expenditure - Proposed Visit of British Association for the Advancement of Science - New Hebrides - Petherick Collection - Tariff : GREYBOARD : Super-Calendered Paper - Commonwealth Buildings in Melbourne: Location of Parliament - Queen’s Hall: Accommodation for Visitors - Advertising Australia - Visit of Scottish Farmers - Papua - Federal Capital Site - Telephone Construction : Cronulla to Kogarah.

In Committee of Supply:

Mr FISHER:
Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

– I move -

That a sura not exceeding 280,876 be granted to His Majesty for or towards defraying the services of the year ending 30th June, 1911

– Let me remind my honorable friend that this precedent means taking from the control of the House the ordinary financial safeguards which, in a democratic community, are always punctiliously adhered to. For the first time in the history of this Parliament t he Treasurer of the Commonwealth is asking for £600,000 in respect of special defence provision before he has told the House or the country what the financial proposalsof the Government for the year are to be.

Mr West:

– This is the first amount which has been sought in respect of anAustralian Navy.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

– No; we have already made some payments on the same account. Does not the honorable member know that £250,000 has already been sent to London to pay for the three smaller vessels, and that since then there has been a first payment on account of the large Dreadnought cruiser. I use the word “Dreadnought” because it accurately describes the kind of vessel for which we are now about to pay.

Mr Fisher:

– To make the word familiar to the honorable member.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

– Yes; it is oneof the ironies of the situation that this very vessel which has always been satirized and jeered at by my honorable friends of the

Labour party is now a-building and in process of being paid for.

Mr Batchelor:

– As part of an Australian Navy.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

– As an Australian Dreadnought. Will that satisfy the honorable member?

Mr West:

– Does the honorable member dread the payment?

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

– No ; I do not. If the honorable member had been listening, he would have heard me say to the Treasurer that if he wanted this money to send to London at once, I should not have had a word to say. But he can only tell us that he may want the money before the expiration of the term covered by this Bill. That is two months hence. In every reasonable probability - nay, it is a probability amounting to certainty - the whole schedule of works and buildings will be the law of the land before that two months expires. Therefore, the Prime Minister could have obtained this money in the regular way, instead of in the irregular and unprecedented manner in “which he is trying to put this Bill through. I suggest, even now, that rather than make a precedent of this course, the Prime Minister should withdraw the motion, and put the sum’ which he requires in the schedule to a Bill covering expenditure on works and buildings. He could, in that way, get the money just as soon as it is needed, and avoid the introduction of this most irregular method of obtaining so extraordinary an advance before the financial statement is submitted to the House.

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– I, for one, have always raised a protest against this practice of carrying-on our financial business by means of temporary Supply Bills. It is a practice that cannot be too strongly condemned, except in cases of emergency, where it is absolutely unavoidable. This method of conducting our finances means that when the Estimates come up for consideration, we find that the great bulk of the money to be voted has already been spent. ‘ We have been sitting since the beginning of July, and there should have been time to prepare a financial statement. We should have had before us the Estimates for the year. We have already had one Supply Bill, covering an amount of £[774,331. Here we have another one, for no less than £[1,280,000. That is a very large sum’. The trouble about these temporary Supply Bills is that we have very little opportunity of knowing where the money goes. A large amount is included in such items as “contingencies” and “miscellaneous.”

The CHAIRMAN:

– I must remind the honorable member that the Supply Bill is not before the Committee. We are dealing with a motion.

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– I have a copy of the Supply Bill in my hand.

Mr Batchelor:

– How did the honorable member get it ? The Bill has not been circulated.

Mr Fisher:

– A copy of the Bill was given to the Leader of the Opposition, and I hope that the honorable member will show the courtesy that is usually observed in matters of this kind.

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– I hope that I am’ not displaying any lack of courtesy in referring to matters which have been dealt with by previous speakers. If others were allowed to refer to the Bill, the same right should be extended to me.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– Will the honorable member ask the Prime Minister where the failing in courtesy comes in?

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– That is what I want to know. I take it that no member of this Chamber has privileges which others are not entitled to enjoy ; and that no member of this House can be deprived of privileges, unless others are equally deprived of them. I really do not know what the Prime Minister means by suggesting that I am guilty of discourtesy. I am not aware of any. I say again that the practice of dealing with Supply Bills in this manner is a bad one, and I also point out that the Treasurer should have made provision for what he requires in respect of this special naval expenditure in a very different way to the loose, and, I believe, illegal one he is now adopting in tacking special works expenditure, not even specifically indicated, on to the ordinary Treasurer’s Advance Account. In this case, there is a sum of £350,000 which could have been provided for otherwise, a portion of which, we are told, is to be expended on naval construction, which this House has as yet not been asked to approve, and of which it officially knows absolutely nothing, and which should have been appropriated by a special Bill. We are now in the month of August, and when this Bill passes, we shall have voted Supply to the extent of over £2,000,000.

Mr Batchelor:

– Surely that is enough.

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– The Minister chooses to be flippant, but the practice is an extremely loose and dangerous one, and undermines the control of Parliament over public expenditure. It is a long way more than enough. The whole procedure is absolutely wrong. The Prime Minister is assuming a very high-handed attitude when he says that such a resolution ought not to be discussed, but that we should sit here as mere automata while he comes down with a motion, throws it on the table, and says, “ Take it or leave it.” If that is the Prime Minister’s attitude, it is very discourteous to honorable members. We are entitled to discuss motions just as we are entitled to discuss Bills, and when the Prime Minister states that a member of this House is guilty of discourtesy, because he takes advantage of an opportunity, and exercises his rights as a public representative, not bound or gagged by a caucus decision, he is assuming an attitude towards free men which he has no right to take up. I hope, therefore, that the criticism which has been launched will be heeded by the Ministry, and that in future they will bring down their proposals for expenditure in a more regular and business-like manner, so that they will not be open to the criticism which, under present circumstances, is justly levelled at them.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
Parramatta

– I should like to have the mattsr made clear by the Prime Minister before this motion is agreed to. The procedure is so extraordinary, and the amount in question so unusually large, that one is justified in putting this aspect of the question. I presume that when we get the Estimates, these special items for defence purposes will figure, as they have done heretofore, in a special schedule of works and buildings, which will be considered immediately after the Budget debate. If that be so, the item to which I have been referring is likely to come up again some weeks after the period covered by this Supply Bill expires. In that case, I presume that the Prime Minister will adhere to the intention which he has made pretty clear to the Committee, and that this money, the expenditure of which in this way will.. I presume, be regularized by special Estimates, will not be used for any other purpose. There is nothing here to show the destination of the £350,000. There is nothing to show the purpose of the expenditure. The Prime Minister, I presume, would not want it except for paying for the cruiser, which is in process of building.

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– The money could be used for anything else.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

– It could, of course.

Mr W H IRVINE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– The Prime Minister has given his assurance that it is to be used for the purpose specified.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

– But immediately the Budget is submitted, this item will appear in a special schedule of works and buildings. Last year, the schedule was submitted in August, and the Bill embodying it was on the statute-book on the 4th September. All parties agree to put the Works and Buildings Estimates through so that the Government may get permission to spend the money. The Prime Minister really does not want this advance for the purpose indicated, because the Works and Buildings Appropriation Bill will come before us, and be approved of long before the expiration of the two months now being provided for. What I wish to be assured of, therefore, is that this advance to the Treasurer, which is so extraordinary, will not, when the matter has been provided in the ordinary way, by means of Estimates, be used for any other purpose by the Treasurer.

Mr FISHER:
Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

– I have twice previously given the information for which the honorable member is asking. Undoubtedly provision for this expenditure will have to be made in the way the honorable member suggests - that is, in the Works and Buildings Estimates. After all, the Government are the guardians of the public purse.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– The Government and Parliament.

Mr FISHER:

– I mean that under responsible government, as it exists here, the Ministry of the day are responsible. They are bound to take the steps necessary to protect the interests of the Commonwealth. We need this money now, in order to transmit it to London for the payment of instalments for a certain work, or in other words, to meet obligations which were entered into by our predecessors, and for which, with all due respect to them, they did not provide the necessary funds.

Sir John Forrest:

– None were needed, as no payments for the work in question had fallen due.

Mr Groom:

– Does the Treasurer say that this money will be needed before he. can come down with an appropriation?

Mr FISHER:

– Yes.

Mr Groom:

– The reason I ask the question is that the usual vote for the Treasurer’s Advance is £200,000, and if there were two appropriations in the meantime, it would give the Treasurer’s Advance Account considerably over the sum now asked for.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– Will the Treasurer say what provision the present Government have made to raise the money they are now going to spend?

Mr FISHER:

– I told the Committee when the honorable member was not present that the Treasurer would have at his command, out of this vote, only £110,000. Not less than£490,000 is to be sent elsewhere almost immediately. There will beonly £1 10,000 in the hands of the Treasurer to cover the three months. From this honorable members will see how very economically we are endeavouring to conduct the Treasurer’s Advance Account during that period. I am not able to speak with respect to the legal position, but I think I should have no difficulty in finding evidence of previous cases in which advances were asked for prior to the delivery of the Budget statement or the consideration of the Works and Buildings Estimates.

Sir John Forrest:

– Some small amounts for special purposes.

Mr FISHER:

– I wish again to remind honorable members opposite that the unusual vote asked for now is due to one of those legacies which very few people care to have to take up. The obligation to meet certain payments has fallen upon the present Government, and they must take the necessary steps in the best way to protect the interests of the public, and meet these payments month by month as they fall due in London.

Sir JOHN FORREST:
Swan

.- Can the Treasurer inform the Committee whether tenders have been let for the construction of any of the other ships of the naval unit besides the armoured cruiser?

Mr Fisher:

– I am not in a position to say at the present moment, but I do not think so.

Sir JOHN FORREST:

– The point I wish to make is that, since the honorable gentleman has said so much about the late Government leaving him a legacy, it is as well that it should be known that we left him only one contract.

Mr Fisher:

-i used the most polite term I could to describe it.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Resolution reported.

Motion (by Mr. Fisher) agreed to -

That the Standing Orders be suspended in order to enable all steps to be taken to obtain Supply and to pass a Supply Bill through all its stages without delay.

Resolution of Supply adopted.

Resolution of Ways and Means covering resolution of Supply adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Fisher and Mr. Hughes do prepare and bring in a Bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill presented by Mr. Fisher, and read a first time.

Mr FISHER:
Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

– I move -

That this Bill be now read a second time.

I wish, in moving the second reading of the Bill, to mention a matter which is not at all one of party, but is of Australian interest. The Government had intended to seek an opportunity to indicate their view regarding the issue of an invitation to the British Association for the Advancement of Science. From time to time communications have been addressed to Australian Governments by members of that Association suggesting that if some consideration were offered to them they would hope to be able to meet here, perhaps, in 1 9 13 or the following year. The last session was held, I think, in South Africa, and the combined Governments there offered to the Association an advance of about £6,000 - I think that it was supplemented afterwards - to enable them to make the visit.

Mr Groom:

– They had a session in Canada, too.

Mr FISHER:

– Yes. An invitation to. Australia would involve the provision of a sum of considerably more than£6,000. The Government are of opinion that the meeting of such an Association in Australia would be not only a good advertisement for us, but also a high compliment to the most distinguished men of our nation as regards the advancement of science. Possibly some distinguished members of the Association might open up some new scientific problems here which would make Australia known to the scientific world for all time. . Such things have happened in the past. I do not know of a more distinguished Association in the world to which we could offer an invitation. The Government are inclined, if the House will indicate its approval, to send an invitation. The cost will, no doubt, amount to about £10,000. I have ascertained that many of the States are anxious to co-operate, but the invitation must go, and, I think, rightly go, from the Commonwealth. The Minister of External Affairs has been giving his attention to the subject, and I thought that this would be a fitting opportunity to bring it under the notice of honorable members.

Mr DEAKIN:
Ballarat

.- I am very glad that the Prime Minister has introduced this question to the House, and trust that it will receive universal approbation. The late Government absolutely committed themselves to the proposal many months ago on grounds which have been outlined by the present Prime Minister. Honorable members are no doubt aware of the high standing of the British Association, which includes practically every leading scientific man in the Mother Country, no matter what peculiar or special branch of science he may have made his own, and therefore represents in a collective way what may be termed the scientific judgment of the Mother Country. The opportunity, if we are fortunate enough to obtain it, of enabling them to assemble on this side of the world for the discussion of the great questions to be submitted - which invariably include the latest and most advanced proposals from many schools of thoughtby the most competent experts in those subjects, affords the most distinctively modern illustration of the growth of science, and at the same time furnishes illustrations of the powers of science, based upon a larger experience than even the Mother Country herself enjoys. We have to realize that it will not be an easy task to induce the members of the Association to conduct its meetings thousands of miles away from the homes of those who take part in them; but if we are fortunate enough to succeed we shall have every reason to congratulate ourselves. In the first place, we shall bring here some very eminent men, and a number of interested persons, hardly less eminent, though not yet so well known to fame. We shall also obtain, as the Prime Minister has said, a great advertisement. More than that, we shall have cabled from here day by day reports of the papers read, perhaps including some of the newest discoveries or hypotheses then for the first time made known to the civilized world. In every country in Europe and among the intellectual classes of America and Europe, the proceedings of the Association will be followed with the closest attention day by day. In making. Australia known we have to appeal as occasion offers first to one and then to another section of the world’s thinkers and the world’s population. The present affords us an unexampled opportunity of appealing to a body of men engaged in researches which ought to have, perhaps, more importance to a new country like Australia than to any .other part of the world, because a great number of these are either mediately or immediately of practical value. In natural science and other branches we shall have discussions in our midst upon some problems which are to-day, or will soon be, Australian problems. We are fortunate enough to have had in our midst men who hold a high place in the Association, and who, I hope, we shall be fortunate enough to again see. I mention Professor Gregory, formerly of the University of Melbourne, and now holding a distinguished position at Glasgow University as a professor of geology, whose contributions to the question of a White Australia have been of great interest to this country, and promise to be of much value. We may also have Professor Wallace, one of the principal professors at Edinburgh University, and one of the best authorities on agriculture throughout all portions of the British Empire, including all its climatic conditions. Others who know something of us, may possibly be amongst our visitors. Besides that, we shall hope to have many more who have not yet visited this country, but to whom in many branches Australia offers a comparatively virgin field for research. It is generally recognised that not only in geology, but in various questions relating to the earth’s later history, at very remote periods, there are opportunities for investigation here which are not possessed, or which are not known to be possessed, elsewhere. To have Australia made known as a proper place for further scientific research, and to obtain the benefit of the influence of high authorities from abroad upon our scientific growth, will be a great gain. Believing that I am addressing a House which does not need to be convinced, and is satisfied that the proposal of the Government is wise and prudent, it is unnecessary to endeavour to set out in detail all the possible advantages of a visit by the Association. It would mark an event in the history of Australia. It would bring us into the great brotherhood of nations. It would also be an Imperial recognition which, though hitherto extended to Canada and South Africa, comparatively distant portions of the Empire, has not yet been extended to the Commonwealth, situated at a far greater distance. “ This will visibly and before the eyes of the world bring us into notice as a portion of the Empire within the scope of visits from scientific men united by intellectual ties as well as by those of patriotism and of blood. I regard this invitation as an additional step towards Imperial unity in a hitherto untrodden path, and one likely to be of great value to the Commonwealth. We give to the Prime Minister our heartiest support.

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– I congratulate the present Government upon the breadth of conception which they have displayed in this matter. I am quite sure that a great many persons will hardly give them credit for sympathizing with a movement of this sort. I think it is distinctly promising, if I may say so, that the Government are able to take such a cosmopolitan view of the world’s affairs as to realize that it is possible for Australia to derive a very great advantage from a visit by some of the most distinguished scientific men of Great Britain. We have a precedent for issuing this invitation in the late gathering of Chambers of Commerce which took place in Australia. That occurred under the auspices of the late Government. From them we should have expected something of the kind. The advantages of that Congress were very great, because it brought into our midst some of the leading commercial men of Great Britain. One important benefit was that prominent, commercial thinkers of England were able to throw valuable lights upon the commercial needs of Australia, by being upon the spot, and having their attention directed more particularly to the questions which arose in connexion with her relationship with other parts of the world. Another great advantage which I see in having visits to our shores by leading scientific men is that their attention will be very naturally directed to problems which touch Australian interests ; and not the least of these will be the results of the late Antarctic expedition. We have in Australia several very able scientists who were connected with that expedition. I mention particularly Professor David. He has not yet had an opportunity to speak upon it at length to what might be called a scientific audience. There are many scientific men in Australia whom he has been able to meet, but I am sure that he would feel it inspiring to be called upon to address the leading scientists of England regarding what he deemed to be its most valuable scientific results. This gathering would be an inspiration to him and others, and - I say it with all respect for the attainments of those who may come here - it would be instructive for our visitors to hear, close to the scene of the Antarctic expedition, an account of the observations of an Australian professor. We have in our midst eminent scientists who do not find it easy to get scientific audiences to incite them to put forward their best efforts on scientific subjects ; and the knowledge that such a galaxy of talent is coming to Australia will incite them to prepare papers which will throw a very interesting light on Australian possibilities. The invitation will show that we here are not insensible to the great part which science plays in the world to-day. The fact that Australia has invited this gathering to take place here, as it has already taken place in Canada and South Africa, will demonstrate to the world that, in the midst of our busy existence, we have an eye to scientific matters, recognising their value and importance. I know that there is a great deal to be said in other respects against the policy of Ministers, but the sending of this invitation should be entered on the credit side of the ledger of their reputation. I am glad of the opportunity to congratulate the Prime Minister and the members of his Government on having had the courage to propose an expenditure of £[10,000 to do something the effect of which on the interests of Australia will be so indirect.

Mr BATCHELOR:
Minister of External Affairs · Boothby · ALP

– I thank the honorable member for Parkes for his congratulations, and, in turn, congratulate the Opposition on sinking all party feeling and assuring the Government of its cordial cooperation in this matter. Were the honorable member for Parkes well acquainted with the history of the Labour party, he would know that every project for the advancement of education and science has had its hearty support from the beginning. Australia is “to be congratulated on the fact that the leading scientists of Great Britain are desirous of visiting us. It will be a big thing to get them to come here, and I am glad to know, from private letters, that there is the greatest desire on the part of some of them to accept our invitation if it should be possible to get away. I shall not mention names, because some of those whom I could mention may not, in the end, be able to make the journey. All the State Governments are willing to co-operate with us, and will issue free passes, and assist in every way to make the meeting of the Association a success.

Mr Deakin:

-It is an Australian invitation.

Mr BATCHELOR:

– Yes. Representative Committees have been formed in all the capitals to assist in making the visit as successful as possible. If the invitation is accepted, meetings of the Association will be” held, not only in Melbourne and in Sydney, but also in the other capitals. The invitation must be sent next week, because the Association meets in Sheffield at the end of the month, and will arrange then for the place of its next meeting, three or four years hence. Therefore, as soon as this proposal nas been considered by the. Senate, the Prime Minister will, in the name of Australia, send a cablegram to England inviting the Association to visit us. This was a convenient opportunity for bringing the matter forward, and I am pleased at the manner in which the proposal has been received by the House.

Mr W H IRVINE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

.- I am glad to hear from the Minister of External Affairs that it is probable that our invitation to the British Association for the Advancement of Science will be accepted. May I refer to a matter in connexion with the visit which, it seems to me, is as important as any that has been mentioned, the effect which the presence of, and the discussion of scientific problems by, distinguished men may have in encouraging and stimulating intellectual ambitions in our young people. I remember the meeting of the Association held in Belfast in my early youth, perhaps one of the most important and momentous ever held, when Professor Tyndall delivered his celebrated lecture on the atomic theory of matter.

Mr Fisher:

– May we have such a meeting here.

Mr W H IRVINE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– There is no reason. why we should not have here a meeting which will stir the minds of our young people as that did the minds of the growing generation in the Old Country. Hundreds of young men were stirred, myself amongst them, to ambitions, probably im possible of realization, and to efforts which would never have been made had our powers remained dormant for want of the stimulation of the wonderful intellectual activity displayed on that occasion. I mention the matter because it came within my own experience. I have no reason to doubt that discussions will take place in the Australian capitals, and that papers will be read and printed here, which will have a similar effect. The mere presence of distinguished scientific men in our midst will cause ambitious stirrings in our young people. I regard this possibility as of more importance than the other advantages which are to be anticipated from the gathering here, and I join in congratulating the Government upon having issued the invitation.

Mr BEARD:
Batman

.- I, too, congratulate the Government upon having dealt with this matter. Great benefits will be conferred upon the people of Australia by the meeting here of the leading scientists of Great Britain. Of course, it must be remembered that we shall be able to give these gentlemen something very valuable in return. As the Leader of the Opposition has pointed out, they will have an opportunity to study, on the spot, a number of questions impossible to study without a visit to this country. There are conditions in Australia quite different from those that exist in any other part of the world, and the visitors will obtain a great deal of scientific information not available elsewhere. Further, we know that men of high scientific attainments are not usually of large material wealth, and it is a graceful act on the part of the Government to provide funds to assist an expedition of this character, and arrange a welcome worthy of the occasion. As we know, everything in this country is, as it were, upside down from a European point of view, and one phenomenon which the visitors may be interested in, and which they will be able to study and ‘discuss on the spot, is that latest development - the Caucus Labori.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
Parramatta

– There can be nothing but cordial approval on this side for the proposal of the Prime Minister. I remember that during the term of office of the late Government a large deputation of scientific men of Australia interviewed the then Prime Minister, and their proposals met with instant and cordial approval. I have only to say now that if the Government find that the £10,000 suggested is nofenough they ought not to allow that to stand in the way of making the visit a complete and unqualified success. I can .conceive of no money which could be more usefully spent or which will more contribute to the commonweal of the Commonwealth.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

.- I wish to offer a few observations in reference to the remarks of the honorable member for Parramatta regarding the New Hebrides. Have honorable members ever thought that, although we have had possession of Australia for some hundred and twenty years, all that we have been able 10 do with it has been to settle upon it a population of about 4,250,000? But not satisfied with our own enormous territory, embracing about 3,000,000 square miles, we are reaching out for a few hundred thousand acres more in the New Hebrides, and desire to obtain control there. It seems to me that if we wish to keep out of mischief, we ought to be satisfied with the territory that we now have, and do our level best to govern it as it ought to be governed.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– The honorable member will be satisfied some day with sis feet of it.

Mr HIGGS:

Mr J H Catts:

– Certainly, sir, and I want to show that, although the Parliament decided in favour of “5 per cent, and free.” the Department is administering the item <in such a way as to defeat that decision. I conferred with several honorable members as to the proper time to raise the question, and they agreed with me that this was the time. I submit, sir, that while I am addressing the Committee on a certain question, it is altogether irregular to now inquire whether it is its pleasure that the items should be taken seriatim or not.

Mr Thomas Brown:

– I think it would be better, sir, if the schedule were taken, not as a whole, but in Departments, so that matters of grievance relating to a Department could be brought to the notice of ite Minister and dealt with. So far as I can gather from his remarks, the honorable member for Cook does not wish to introduce any question of policy, because he contends that that was settled when the Tariff was framed. He merely desires to bring under the notice of the Committee a Ministerial interpretation under which the purpose of the Tariff in one particular is. being defeated. I think that under this particular heading he would be quite in order in dealing with the matter. It does, not involve the question of whether a particular line should be subject to a certain duty, but whether the Department is carrying out the intention of Parliament.

The CHAIRMAN:

– I have already intimated that if it is the pleasure of theCommittee the items of the schedule will betaken seriatim, and when we reach the votefor the Department of Trade and Customs the honorable member for Cook will be able- to deal with the question of its administration, but certainly not with the question of percentages of duty. I take it that it is the sense of the Committee that I should put the votes for the Departments separately.

– Then I am in error. I believe that the President and Speaker are strongly opposed to the suggestion of the honorable member, thinking that its adoption would result in the disfigurement of the building. Still, as a member of the House Committee, he is in a stronger position than is a Minister. In my opinion, it would be a mistake for the Government to make a request on this subject to the authorities who have charge of the building.

Mr KELLY:
Wentworth

.- The remarks of the honorable member for Lang might seem to present him in a new light. I have never regarded him as a person burning with romantic anxiety to find some quiet place to take his visitors. Yet that it might seem is the direction in which his inclination lies ! But, lest it might appear that the House is in favour of taking part of the Queen’s Hall, for the accommodation of visi tors, and doing what might disfigure what is architecturally one of the finest monuments in the city of Melbourne, I ask that nothing may be done to detract from the aesthetic beauties of the building. I hope that my honorable friend will curb his extraordinary desire for privacy, and will remember that it is a duty we owe to the Parliament of Victoria not to impair the building which its generosity has placed at our disposal.

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– I did not suggest that it should be impaired.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Divisions 11 to 16 (Department of External Affairs), ^15,120.

Mr THOMAS BROWN:
Calare

– While I would not suggest that the honorable member for Capricornia has lucid moments only at long intervals, I should be sorry to let it be thought that he has expressed my views relating to the control of the New Hebrides. I do not agree with him that we should limit our considerations to the Australian continent. I admit that Ave have not treated the Australian aborigines as well as they might have been treated ; but that is not a reason why we should allow the natives of adjacentislands to be ill-treated, or permit those islands to come wholly under the control of foreign Powers. Had the Home Government been more alive to the interests of the Empire, New Guinea and the adjacent islands would be now a part of Australia, to which they naturally belong. They were explored by Britishers before foreigners thought of going there, and most of the pioneering work that has been done there is the work of Britishers.

Mr Higgs:

– Then the honorable member ought to annex the British islands.

Mr THOMAS BROWN:

– As they belong to the British people, they do not require to be annexed. It will be a bad day for the Commonwealth if ever they come under the control of other than Britishers. Australia, particularly the State which I represent, has interests in the Pacific.

Mr Batchelor:

– There is a Presbyterian interest there.

Mr THOMAS BROWN:

– That is so. A great mission work has been carried on there by the Presbyterian Church of Australia. It Avas controlled first by the Presbyterians of the Old Country and America, but it is passing into the hands of the Australian Presbyterian Church. Nothing can be said against the work of that and other Churches in the Christianising and civilising of the natives. But I understand that there is much trade rivalry and international jealousy, due to the desire of citizens of other countries to secure a footing there. At present there is an understanding among the Powers that they should try to obtain good government and to maintain justice among both the natives and the traders who have made the islands their home. The land question lies at the bottom of the present trouble, as it generally lies at the bottom of trouble. Some time ago a Commission, consisting of representatives of Great Britain and France, was appointed to provide for the government of the New Hebrides. One ground of complaint is that this body has not yet got to work, and the friction continues as a great disturbing factor. The Minister will do good work for the islands, the traders in legitimate business, and the missionaries, who are endeavouring to civilize and Christianize the natives by bringing all the influence he can command to bear on the different governing authorities so that this Court may be constituted, and set to work as speedily as possible. We in Australia should not allow the natives to be decimated as the natives elsewhere have been ; we should not allow, as in Fiji, numbers of coolies and other alien labourers to be imported, and thus expedite the extermination of the original possessors of the soil. We are part of the British Empire, and if we se° injustice in any part of that Empire, the duty devolves on us, and not on foreigners, to set matters right.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

.- The honorable member for Parkes has certainly applied most exquisite terms to the honorable member for Capricornia. He ought to remember, when he refers in his wonderfully rounded phrases to others as displaying common sense only at long intervals, that such language is not pleasant. Had the honorable member stayed in his place, I think I could have answered him, as I know something of the New Hebrides, having taken the trouble to’ go and see where the kanakas from Queensland were landed. I may say that I had the honour of receiving a medal from Messrs. Burns, Philp and Co. for assistance rendered on board the ship that carried those natives, and that, from my knowledge of the colour trouble in the United States, I am proud of what the Commonwealth Parliament did in removing the black spot. from Australia. The captain of that vessel made as many as five separate visits to an island, going there even if he had onlyone kanaka to land.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member is not in order in discussing the deportation of the kanakas.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– I am dealing with the remarks of the honorable member for Parramatta, the honorable member for Capricornia, and the honorable member for Parkes. I have an objection to too much being given to the New Hebrides. As an Australian, I know something of the wilds of Gippsland, where it is impossible to obtain such crops in five years as can be obtained in six months on the islands, where the vegetation is tropical, and can be cleared with a long knife, using only one hand. There it is not necessary to use a full sized axe, because a threequarter is sufficient; and in six months from starting on the dense undergrowth, there is a crop of maize, while the season averages two and a half crops as against one in Gippsland.

The CHAIRMAN:

– There is nothing in the schedule about clearing in Gippsland or the Fiji islands.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– Then I suppose I must confine myself strictly to the schedule, in which I see a certain sum set down in connexion with the mail service to the Pacific Islands. I have not the slightest objection to this vote, because the mails carry letters and news, and I have many friends there, not only Australian, but British, French, and German. The honorable member for Calare has told us that the land question is at the bottom of most of our trouble, and I should like to make a few remarks in that connexion. I had the privilege of being surgeon on the Presbyterian mission ship, and, therefore, 1 know something of the splendid organization of that Church for the amelioration of the conditions of life of the natives. The Church of England, too, is also doing splendid work, and also the Church to which I belong. The missionaries of the Church of England and Presbyterian Church, with a vast amount of labour, are translating the New Testament into native languages that will be dead in a few years, owing to the disappearance of the natives. It is said that the Scriptures have been translated into no fewer than seven languages which there is not one native left to speak; and I have always thought, while admiring this work, that it would have been far better to teach the natives English from the very first. I think I need say no more now than that the honorable member for Parkes must allow honorable members on this side to know something which, with his superabundant wisdom, he has not learned - something which he cannot cover with a brilliancy resembling the aurora of an Australian sunset.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
Parramatta

– I much regret the speech of the Honorable member for Capricornia, and must say that it would only be consistent on his part to move the omission of the item providing for the mail service to these islands, if he does not think we ought to set our unsanctified feet there. The honorable member’s remarks were really irrelevant to anything I had to say. He accused me of having a rapacious mind so far as the islands were concerned, and suggested that I was encouraging the grabbing of their lands,- and wanted to do away with the Tariff entirely so far as their products were concerned,I never suggested any one of those things. All I said with regard to the Tariff wasthat it was a sufficient bar between ourselves and the British planters who are doing pioneering work in the islands. I do not want to grab their lands. I do not want to interfere with the islands except to take care that we do not allow our interests to slip from our hands into’ the hands of other people there. All I urge is that diplomacy should be used to remove the disabilities of British traders. I should have thought that the honorable member, as a good Australian, would be with me, and not against me, in urging that line of action. I give the honorable member credit for wanting to preserve Australian interests, and for being an Australian in sentiment and every other respect; but if he is as strong an Australian as he has often told us he is, and I am willing to believe he is, he cannot shut his eyes to what is happening in the Pacific Islands. No Australian can do that with impunity. We are vitally concerned in all that makes for the good government of the islands, and especially in all that relates to British interests there. I pointed out to the Minister that two of the terms of the Convention were being violated to the detriment of British interests. Article 57 says that-

Subject to the specific exceptions hereafter enumerated no person shall from the date of the signature of the present Convention sell or sup ply arms or ammunition to the natives either directly or indirectly in the New Hebrides. . . .

I urged that that was being ignored, my information being that firearms were being supplied by the French residents to the natives. Article 59 provides that -

no person shall . . . sell or supply intoxicating liquors to the natives in any form and on any pretext whatsoever.

– My honorable friend forgets that Melbourne Punch must never be taken too seriously. Indeed, I have found that no comic paper should be taken seriously, but the article in the Clarion was to be so regarded, because the Commonwealth Government paid some £50 or £100 more than they need have paid, in order to attract a population of a desirable character. I want to know whether there has been any result from this expenditure. It should be a lesson for future Administrations not. to trespass in these particular by-paths. We do not know what is happening to this advertising fund. Let us look at the matter in a broad light. A vote of this kind might be used to buy the support of newspapers in the Mother Country for an Australian Government. This factor is very important from a party political stand-point. The cables sent to the Australian newspapers every day are capable of shaping, to a considerable extent, the public opinion of the Commonwealth ; and if my honorable friends opposite had studied the life of Bismarck, they would realize how that statesman used the press to a. considerable extent in order to shape secretly public opinion in Germany. There is nothing to prevent consideration being offered to newspapers in England to be friendly to an Australian Government, by publishing information which would afterwards be cabled to Australia, and thus be capable of influencing Australian opinion. It is, therefore, our duty to inquire into the distribution and allocation of this grant of£36,000

Mr.Fisher. - It is only £7,000 for the three months,

Mr KELLY:

– One of the difficulties in regard to voting Supply in this manner has been that we do not know how far we are aiding the Government in voting these instalments of expenditure. Undoubtedly, in the interests of economy in the public Departments, and of a reasonable scrutiny over expenditure, we ought to have the Estimates presented to Parliament early in the session. I do not blame the present Administration, because previous Governments have adopted the same iniquitous practice. I hope that whatever is done with this vote for the development of the resources of the Commonwealth, not a penny will be expended for the purpose of securing the good services, or the good opinion, of any particular class or type of journalists. In British communities we are justifiably proud of our press. But proud as we may be of the press in the abstract, no doubt there are individual instances where the press has been subject to certain influences. We ought to ‘be particularly careful to see that none of this fund is expended in such directions as I have suggested. By all means let us develop the resources of the Commonwealth and take the best steps possible to make known to the peoples of the world what a rich country we have here, and how worthy we are of their commercial and personal support. We shall thus secure our own advantage and do something to help along the good government of the Commonwealth.

– Certainly.

Mr Groom:

– Does this vote indicate that a similar amount will be required every two months?

Mr KING O’MALLEY:

– The £[2,000 will be for the next two months, but I hope we shall be spending more later on.

Proposed- vote agreed to.

Divisions 30 to 35 (Treasury), £[i5,43°> agreed to.

Divisions 41 to 51 (Department of Trade and Customs), £63,335.

Mr J ‘H CATTS:
Cook

.- I wish to discuss the administration of the Tariff in connexion with an item which is dutiable at 5’ per cent, on the general Tariff and free as regards imports from the United Kingdom, but which the Customs Department has classified under a heading making it dutiable at 20 per cent, and 15 per cent. On the 9th December, 1907, when the Tariff was under consideration and we were dealing with cardboard, millboard, pasteboard, and so forth, the goods were proposed to be made dutiable at 20 per cent, in the general Tariff and 15 per cent, in the Tariff applying to the United Kingdom. I moved an’ amendment to provide that millboard, greyboard, leatherboard, woodboard. &c, should be taken out of the list and made dutiable at a lower figure. Sir William Lyne, then Minister of Trade and Customs, accepted my suggestion, as will be seen by reference to page 7236 of Hansard, volume XLII. The present Minister of Trade and Customs supported my amendment. In doing so he informed the Committee that, when the Tariff was being discussed six years before, he received a letter from the Bookbinders and Paperrulers Union, which, at that time, was a Victorian institution, and had since become a federated union, making the same suggestion, with the addition that cardboard and pasteboard- should be admitted duty free. It was quite plain that when the amendment was carried making greyboard dutiable at 5 per cent, on the general Tariff and free in the case of imports from the United Kingdom, the intention was to give effect to that classification. I have here a sample of greyboard, which I produced at that time, and have shown to the present Minister of Trade and Customs. The Department now refuse to admit this greyboard at 5 per cent, under the general Tariff, and free from the United Kingdom, as intended by this Parliament.

Mr Groom:

– What is the reason given?

Mr J H CATTS:

– It is very difficult to say, because the Department have wobbled so much in connexion with the matter. I understand that the article is not manufactured here, but that some manufacturers of strawboard believe that if this greyboard can be excluded, a greater demand will be created for the article which they produce.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– Victorian manufacturers say that they do make the same board, but I do not think that what they make is the same at all.

Mr J H CATTS:

– This greyboard was made dutiable under the 1902 Tariff at 10 per cent. The Customs Department early in 1907 demanded that there should be a higher duty imposed upon it, but when the other point of view was pressed, the demand was withdrawn. After the passing of the revised Tariff, and up to 24th May, 1908, it was classed as 5 per cent., and free. From 25th May to 12th October, it was included in the articles dutiable at 20 per cent, and 15 per cent., then from 13th October to13th December, the same greyboard was classed as 5 per cent., and free, and since 14th December, it has again been included in the articles dutiable at 20 per cent, and15 per cent. During the consideration of the question, the Crown Solicitor of the Commonwealth wrote to a Sydney firm as follows, on the 12th October, 1909 : -

I am instructed to inform you that the Department will refund the amount of duty in dispute in this action, together with interest thereon at 5 per cent., and pay taxed costs as between party and party to this date.

Kindly advise your client to make the usual application for the refund..

Charles Powers,

Crown Solicitor for the Commonwealth.

– I have deduced it from the statements which appear in a letter written by the Minister himself, and dated 24th May of this year. The honorable gentleman wrote -

In regard to the advice received from the Paper Traders’ Association of Victoria, reference to the Association is necessary since paper merchants in Melbourne refuse to advise the Department in regard to trade names of papers except through their Association.

The opinions of experts are, however, sought in other States, particularly New South Wales, but lately the paper merchants there have informed the Department that they do not intend to give further expert advice, as it has been decided to leave that in the hands of the Paper Traders’ Association in Victoria.

The Department is not bound to act in accordance with the advice of the Paper Traders’ Association of Victoria, and acts independently of it when evidence is available to show that the Association’s opinion is not in accordance with the law. Every effort is made to secure the most reliable evidence before a decision is given.

– I do not know if it is a question as to whether this is greyboard or not, but assuming that it is, and I think that there is little doubt that it is, because in paragraph n of item 356 are included millboard, greyboard, leatherboard, woodboard, and manillaboard, at 5 per cent, and free. I have always protested against the Department attempting in any way to go behind the back of Parliament and imposing duties on articles which Parliament intended should not have as high duties imposed upon them as the Department very often, in my opinion, has imposed contrary to the spirit and intention of the Act. In this case it is clearly provided that, the article shall be admitted at 5 per cent,, and free. Unless there is some serious fraud being perpetrated and some very sound reason for the Department raising the duty, I think that the practice ought to be very severely condemned.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Divisions 52 to 210 (Department of Defence), , £183,217, agreed to.

Divisions 211 to 217 (PostmasterGeneral’s Department), . £569,059.

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– I wish to briefly direct the attention of the Postmaster-General to a complaint made by the people of Cronulla about their inability to obtain the construction of a telephone line from Cronulla to Kogarah, which has been recommended. Some time ago it was found impossible to get telephone messages through from Cronulla viâ Sutherland without protracted delays, and an inspector reported in favour of a direct line to Kogarah. In reply to a letter which I wrote to the Department on the subject, I received the following communication : -

Referring to that portion of your letter of the 8th instant relative to the Cronulla-Kogarah direct telephone service, I have the honour to. intimate that from the reports received it is seen that action is urgently required in order to relieve the traffic on the Cronulla line. It is considered that the best method of providing the service is by the erection, of an additional wire between Sutherland and Cronulla, viâ Port. Hacking, in order to carry the telephone traffic, the present line to be used for telegraphic business. If this were done, the existing lines between Sutherland and Kogarah would carry the telephonic traffic. Approval has accordingly been given for the erection of this additional wire viâ Por.t Hacking, but owing to the Metropolitan Construction Staff being engaged on other urgent works, it will probably be a month or two before it can be placed in hand. The matter will, however, be attended to at the first opportunity.

That was written on the 14th March last, but I have since been informed by the Sutherland Shire Council that, although the congestion is more acute and is growing increasingly so, the promised direct line has not been commenced. The council asks me to bring the matter again under the notice of the Department, so that relief may be afforded. The residents and others who visit the district should be able to transact telephone business in a more satisfactory way. The people of Cronulla have been very patient, but it is time that the Department did something to carry out its promise to construct a direct line to Kogarah.

Mr THOMAS BROWN:
Calare

– For the past three years we have been informed by the Department that works wnich have been approved as necessary could not be carried out for want of funds. Now conditions have changed. Parliament has voted money liberally for telephone construction, but the Department replies to all inquiries that work cannot be taken in hand, not for want of money, but because there is not the staff necessary to cope with it. There is something wrong in that position. At first money was lacking; now the staff Ls insufficient. I hope that the Postmaster-General will see whether it is not possible to create a staff strong enough to do the work.

Mr Thomas:

– I shall look into both matters which have been mentioned.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Division 39 (Refunds of Revenue), £20,000, agreed to.

Division 40 (Advance to the Treasurer), £350,000.

Sir JOHN FORREST:
Swan

. -I should like to make my final protest against the action of the Government. They have repealed the Act which gave authority for the building of the naval unit, and have not substituted1 anything for it. At the same time, they ask Parliament to vote money to pay for the ships that are building. There is no legal sanction for this expenditure. The proper course would have been to introduce a Bill repealing the Naval Loan Act 1909, and authorizing the construction of the ships, and providing that the . payment for them should be made out of the Consolidated Revenue. Why has that course not been taken? Instead of that having been done, the money is asked for as if it were to be expended for the ordinary services of the year. That certainly is not right. I wish also to remind the Treasurer that within a few weeks the Works and Buildings Estimates, and the covering Appropriation Bill, will bc passed. They will include the appropriations for the building of these ships, and the Treasurer’s Advance will then be relieved of about £400,000, so that the Treasurer will then have £600,000 to do as he likes wilh, whereas no previous Treasurer had more than £200,000.

Mr Fisher:

– I promise the right honorable member that that will be adjusted. I shall not have £600,000 to spend as I like.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a thirdtime.

page 1286

COMMONWEALTH CONCILIATION AND ARBITRATION BILL

Report adopted.

House adjourned at 11.26 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 9 August 1910, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1910/19100809_reps_4_55/>.

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House of Representatives 9 August 1910

SUPPLY BILL (No. 2)

CONSTITUTION ALTERATION (STATE DEBTS)

TRUST FUND ADVANCES BILL

PAPERS

QUESTION

NEW CABLE SERVICE

Mr BATCHELOR:Minister for External Affairs · BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

QUESTION

RETURNING OFFICERS

Mr J H CATTS:COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr KING O’MALLEY:Minister for Home Affairs · DARWIN, TASMANIA · ALP

QUESTION

CLERKS’ INCREMENTS

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:INDI, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr FISHER:Prime Minister · WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · ALP

QUESTION

POSTMASTER-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT

Mr HIGGS:CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

Mr THOMAS:Postmaster-General · BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr SAMPSON:for Mr. Sinclair

Mr THOMAS:

AUSTRALIAN NOTES BILL

Second Reading

Mr FISHER:Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

Mr Deakin:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Deakin:

Mr FISHER:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Deakin:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Glynn:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Joseph Cook:

Mr Groom:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Deakin:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Deakin:

Mr FISHER:

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr FISHER:

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr FISHER:

Mr Deakin:

Mr Groom:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Groom:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Groom:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Joseph Cook:

Mr FISHER:

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr FISHER:

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr FISHER:

Mr Groom:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Joseph Cook:

Mr FISHER:

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr FISHER:

Mr Groom:

Mr FISHER:

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr FISHER:

Mr Groom:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Glynn:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Groom:

Mr FISHER:

Mr FISHER:

Sir John Forrest:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Groom:

Mr FISHER:

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

House of Representatives
9 August 1910

Mr BATCHELOR:
Minister for External Affairs · BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr J H CATTS:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
Minister for Home Affairs · DARWIN, TASMANIA · ALP

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:
INDI, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr FISHER:
Prime Minister · WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · ALP

Mr HIGGS:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

Mr THOMAS:
Postmaster-General · BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr SAMPSON:
for Mr. Sinclair

Mr FISHER:
Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr W H IRVINE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr W H IRVINE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr W H IRVINE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr W H IRVINE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr G B EDWARDS:
NORTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

Mr W H IRVINE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr W H IRVINE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917